Is it wrong to tell this lie....

Hi everyone

I am at a critical point in self awareness and my eyes are opening so much to how I behave and I believe I understand the reasons behind it. I feel like a sponge at the moment, waiting to soak up good advice and learn. I am so open to looking at the real me and finding ways to better myself. I feel therapy will help push me along and also make me a better person. I am ready.

Here is my problem...I take a substance (not narcotic) that helps with anxiety/depression and I am told they wont see me until I am off the substance otherwise they wont get a true gauge to where I am at.

Ok so, if I do come off the substance, I just absolutely know I will lose the capacity to be so aware and open. And also, I don't think I can come off substance without being in therapy while I am doing so...so I am in a vicious circle.

I cannot (as I have tried) come off this substance alone. It gives me a bandage...it simply allows me to deal with my issues. If I am not on the stuff, all this will be too hard and therapy just wouldn't work.

So is it an option to lie and say I am clean and go to therapy anyway?

I am so ready right now. I fear if I don't do it this way, I will never do it.

Right now, my plan is to go into therapy and slowly reduce each week while in the right support.

What would you do?

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Added after being asked what it is I take:

I take a natural crushed leaf called 'Kratom'. It produces light opiate like effects. Without it, I am an anxious, depressed and emotional wreck. It calms me down enough so that I am able to explore why I do the things and behave the way I do. I am able to recognise the actual problem and then I am able to work on that problem...which I still have btw when I take this stuff but it calms it all down enough for me to see what it is I need to do.

Put it this way, without it, I have NO CHANCE of improving anything. You don't know me so please just take it from me, I am simply not capable of dealing with this stuff without the help from Kratom.

The effects for me are subtle...but enough so that I am able to think with a clear head and really see what's going on.

I should probably also add I take tramadol which also brings a sense of calm to my life.

I am not using it to escape my problems...or nor do I intend on relying on it for the rest of my life. It is simply being used as a bandage to keep my emotions in check while I deal with the facts and causes and logically looking at ways to combat these issues and change my belief system in order to improve my life.

Yeah, lie.

I still take drugs sometimes because they help me to open up. Sometimes I just waffle crap as a result but mostly it pushes me to be more honest and open. Services found out just before I was meant to start therapy and they made me wait. I think it has made things worse by refusing therapy for another 4/5 months. Don't tell them and get the therapy if you are ready.

If the drug problem is an issue then go to NA maybe? but most substances are emotionally addictive and so it is a little catch 22 without the therapy imo. I am not saying taking drugs is alright and I believe you should address this but....

Good luck x

I know there are support groups for dual diagnosis - addiction and mental illness. I would think there would be therapists specialized in that, too. In my experience drugs made my condition worse, but for others I know pot helped with anxiety. It just affects memory. Is it an option to go elsewhere?

Hey

I am already seeing an organisation to get help with my addiction problems. As you mentioned, it can help you open up and actually help you bandage yourself enough to really deal with the stuff that matters. I believe once I deal with the stuff that matters, I will be ready to stop taking this substance and then deal with the problems that brings.

I don't plan on taking this substance for the rest of my life. I know me, and I know I need to stay on it for now to enable me to open up enough and help me deal with the nitty gritty.

No I don't have anywhere else I can go...even the drugs place I go to said they wont refer me to a therapy until I have come off the substance.

Normally, they won't be able to get a true gauge of where you are at anyway because if you quit, you'd likely be in a state of withdraw, if that applies, which might last for months.

That sounds like hypomania. Has that state been relatively stable? If it is mania, that can get much, much worse from therapy stirring up thoughts, memories, and feelings. You could get flooded.

I don't think just because a rule is in place that it is necessarily right, or right for every person, but I'd advise against doing this. Like someone else mentioned, NA might be a better choice. From what I've heard, it can be like group therapy, plus you have a one-on-one sponsor relationship.

will they test you for the substance? Where I work patients know and consent to the fact that we do random testing and if they are found to have any of the drugs in their system they are immediately kicked out of the program.

I disagree with your assumptions. I'm not you, but it's almost never true that an illegal substance makes therapy easier. Most often, it blocks your emotions and changes how you react and respond. It's probably making therapy less effective, even though you don't know it or can't see it at the moment.

It kind of annoys me with psych that they can decide what substances will impair cognition and what will affect that with no thought to the individual or circumstances at all.

My psych is quite happy to put me on anti-depressants that mask my feelings of depression and WORSE trying to coerce me into taking anti-psychotic (which is basically a tranquillizer!) seriously impairing my cognition, but when I occasionally take a substance that opens me up and allows me to think and explore and be able to express the feelings I already have inside, this is considered a bad thing! Selective drug dealing, I think they call it!

What substances are they, can I ask? I would say that taking them during therapy sessions is a definite no no however x

I don't know about antipsychotics, but I know that my antidepressant and my anti-anxiety medication make therapy more effective, not less. They make me "normal", not enhance or alter anything. I'm not given "happy pills" or emotion suppressants. I am given medication that keeps me from feeling suicidal and so depressed/anxious that I can't function.

It's about as true as it is to take legally prescribed drugs for the same reason.

People take meds prescribed by psychiatrists and other doctors to help make therapy tolerable. Just because it might not be described legally, doesn't necessarily make it much different than taking an SSRI to help make therapy more tolerable.

Taking antipsychotics and other types of drugs also blunt emotions, and changes how you react and respond.

I don't advocate for taking illegal drugs, but it's misleading to conclude that illegal drugs are bad for therapy w/o including that legally prescribed drugs can have the same effect.

It's also potentially misleading to assume they have a bad effect on therapy at all, when legal drugs are prescribed for the exact same reasons--to make therapy easier.

We cross posted.

Illegal drugs can have the same effect as you describe here for yourself.

Most illegal drugs are mind-altering. Cocaine, meth, speed, even marijuana have more effects than just making sure you're not suicidal.

With all due respect, that is a personal opinion and not a medical fact. prescription medication are also mind altering. They alter chemical levels in the brain and therefore are mind altering, just the same.

World renowned psych Freud used to prescribe his patients cocaine! I wouldn't be so quite to trust one mind altering drug over another really.

I agree that cognition is altered with ANY chemical substance and that should be taken into consideration. I also agree that taking substances to alleviate or change feelings is not the best way to go. But I also see this an individual to the person and as long as the plan is to start therapy and work though things and ultimately stop this, a little white lie can't hurt imo x

Hi,

I should of mentioned the substance which I will now and add to original post.

I take a natural crushed leaf called 'Kratom'. It produces light opiate like effects. Without it, I am an anxious, depressed and emotional wreck. It calms me down enough so that I am able to explore why I do the things and behave the way I do. I am able to recognise the actual problem and then I am able to work on that problem...which I still have btw when I take this stuff but it calms it all down enough for me to see what it is I need to do.

Put it this way, without it, I have NO CHANCE of improving anything. You don't know me so please just take it from me, I am simply not capable of dealing with this stuff without the help from Kratom.

The effects for me are subtle...but enough so that I am able to think with a clear head and really see what's going on.

I have never heard of this drug. The effects sound similar to what a benzo might do.

Your T can't get you in trouble with the law, so regardless, I do think it's good to mention it.

I agree that prescription medications being mind altering is a fact. Children are given what some used to refer to as speed because it's therapeutic in the correct doses. Others, who might take higher doses, take these illegally sometimes for the high.

Your 'normal' is to feel depressed and anxious. The medications you take are mind altering and suppress those emotions. Not always, but this is one reason why some people abuse substances or take illegal drugs. It's often only to get to their own 'normal', to function 'normally; to feel 'normal'. Just like the child with ADD. Take too high of a dose, and that same child can feel over-confident, hypomanic, even grandiose. But it alters the mind either way. OMG-I can't even get low doses of Ambien these days (which I take as prescribed) without tons of hassle because people abuse these too for the mind-altering effects!

I am not trying to point fingers at you Hazel; it's the hypocrisy in the DEA/medical profession that bothers me, which influences my responses here.

This provokes similar thoughts about how I feel about the war on drugs/marijuana. Sanjay Gupta rocks! Sorry for the digression...

I looked it up. It says that it can not be detected on drug screening anyway.

Do you take this when you go to therapy though? or is it something you take the night before? x

That's the whole issue here...I am not I am not in therapy because no one wants to treat me while taking this substance. When in fact, this substance is the reason I am even able to deal with it and work on stuff.

Ok, I have decided I am going to lie and tell them I am off it now. While I am in therapy, when the time is right, I will start slowly reducing my intake. I will already be in therapy so can have the help I need to battle what comes with being sober. But I will be sober with hopefully, a whole new set of beliefs and tools!

This whole situation may not be the 'right' way or 'correct' way but I do know, its the right and correct way for me.

This may not even be the case or true, all I know right now, I know its the best way forward...personally for me anyway

Ritalin is a shocking drug that is just like speed! It is doled out in the US like vitamin c tablets for symptoms that are simply classic characteristics of childhood in a lot of cases. My first question to a psych that was trying to pump my child full of pills based on NO biological or neurological evidence of these so called 'brain diseases' that all our kids suddenly have, would be "what are your kids on?" and I bet the answer would be "nothing" in nearly every case! x

Like I said, every case is individual and only YOU can decide the best for you. It is not for me to judge that really. I think looking to stop is the right way forward but therapy and resolving issues is the best way to do that maybe.

I hope the therapy helps you x

I see you've already made a decision to not tell your T that you're taking this substance, and that's always your decision to make. However, I wanted to provide another perspective: I found that I could not get the right help until I let my T see ALL of me, including the anxious mess, the suicidal thoughts, and all the emotions in between. Therapy is not just about being able to calmly talk about your thoughts and beliefs and why you think the way you do and how to change behaviors. It's about being authentic with your emotions and understanding that sometimes you have to feel the emotions before you can be logical and work through the things causing those emotions. At least, that's been my experience. My T repeatedly reminds me that I can't avoid my feelings, and I've found that it's much easier to process even the very hard feelings if I let my T see them and help me with them.

Once I started taking Xanax for anxiety, I had a conversation with my T about whether or not I should take a dose before coming to an appointment. I was so anxious that it was hard to talk to her. She didn't have strong feelings one way or another, and left it up to me. I tried taking Xanax before an appointment, but found that I wasn't as in touch with my emotions and felt more distant from my therapist. I decided that I wasn't able to be fully present and authentic with my T, and went back to my regular schedule of taking Xanax, which did not include a dose right before my appointment.

Thank you

Interesting...and I see the point you are making. However, I only intend to do this to get the ball rolling...once in therapy and once some progress has been made, I will slowly reduce substance intake. Hopefully, in an ideal world, the transition will be seamless Yeah right? My plan is to slowly come off it...slowly letting ME come through, slowly learning new tools and beliefs and at the same time try to apply them to the sobering up me. Don't know if that makes sense

just FYI in case u are randomly drug tested:

i am in a program and i drank Kratom. they send the drug tests to a lab. the lab came back positive for Kratom. so labs are adding Kratom to their testing list.

This makes complete sense to me. I'm on Adderall (similar to Ritilin) and I'm weaning myself off it pretty much as you describe.
Without my Adderall I used to be spacey and backed off from the world, as well as more anxious, surprisingly enough. These days I take it when I'm feeling too overwhelmed or when I feel I have a lot I need to get done. I also find that I do experience anxiety as a side effect, as opposed to my own brand of anxiety when I take it if I don't need it. I think I'll have my doc lower my dose next time I see her.
I completely understand your reasoning for wanting to stay on this drug/supplement. I would never have been able to handle starting therapy and all the other things that were going on in my life at the time without my Adderall. I say go for it. You are the expert on you after all.

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