Home Menu

Menu


Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old Oct 10, 2014, 11:30 PM
dark_sweetie's Avatar
dark_sweetie dark_sweetie is offline
Member
 
Member Since: Jan 2014
Location: US
Posts: 148
Lately T's behavior has changed. She is getting more casual w/ boundaries and with staying neutral a lot. Even boundaries she explicitly told me she needed to stick to. I feel like she is thinking of me as different than a typical client.

And for some reason since last week i'm feeling overwhelmed with nurturing feelings toward her and the feeling that I wish I could check up on her and see if she is Ok, and I am feeling, erm, like a maternal love for her.

This is weird because she's quite a bit older and further along in life than me. And I am not a mother. Has anyone had this happen? I feel like this is my stuff coming out. I usually end up as the therapist in my relationships. I don't have much of a self to present in therapy so I never feel like I'm really known... :/ in that way people say their therapist knows all about them. Even some casual friends know more about me than T, idk. There's nothing in me that can easily go, "this relationship is special/different," except the fact that it is structure. But I do get transferences based on her reactions to me. And I consistently treat her unconditionally positively and never demand anything of her, just like other people. I feel like that's at fault. I feel like maybe that caused her to have transference? but i may be totally wrong, that's the thing... I just know she is behaving differently and my feelings have changed too.

advertisement
  #2  
Old Oct 11, 2014, 12:03 AM
JustShakey's Avatar
JustShakey JustShakey is offline
WON'T!!!
 
Member Since: May 2014
Location: Arizona
Posts: 4,576
This sounds dangerous to me Sweetie. I remember feeling like this towards previous T towards the end, and I was later told that she felt it would have been unethical to keep seeing me; that she didn't feel that she was able to help me.
Like you, I too was treating her unconditionally positive, despite her saying and doing some pretty nasty things to me, because she had scared me pretty badly early on, and I was irrationally terrified of what she might do to me. I think that kind of adoration can be a very hard thing for some people (not just Ts) to resist.
__________________
'...
At poor peace I sing
To you strangers (though song
Is a burning and crested act,
The fire of birds in
The world's turning wood,
For my sawn, splay sounds,)
...'
Dylan Thomas, Author's Prologue
Hugs from:
dark_sweetie
Thanks for this!
dark_sweetie
  #3  
Old Oct 11, 2014, 01:39 AM
CantExplain's Avatar
CantExplain CantExplain is offline
Big Poppa
 
Member Since: Oct 2011
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 19,616
The real danger with maternal feelings is that your T might not want to be mothered.

There is a level of intimacy with a therapist that screams "family". How that plays out and what roles you take is a very personal thing.
__________________
Mr Ambassador, alias Ancient Plax, alias Captain Therapy, alias Big Poppa, alias Secret Spy, etc.

Add that to your tattoo, Baby!
Thanks for this!
dark_sweetie
  #4  
Old Oct 11, 2014, 06:19 AM
dark_sweetie's Avatar
dark_sweetie dark_sweetie is offline
Member
 
Member Since: Jan 2014
Location: US
Posts: 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustShakey View Post
This sounds dangerous to me Sweetie. I remember feeling like this towards previous T towards the end, and I was later told that she felt it would have been unethical to keep seeing me; that she didn't feel that she was able to help me.
Like you, I too was treating her unconditionally positive, despite her saying and doing some pretty nasty things to me, because she had scared me pretty badly early on, and I was irrationally terrified of what she might do to me. I think that kind of adoration can be a very hard thing for some people (not just Ts) to resist.
Thanks shakey!! yes I am worried that something could trigger this to get in termination territory though it's so hard to imagine. That's the thing, I don't have any self esteem, I tell myself this is just in my head and she's just fine. Kind of like "wow, what gall I have to think someone would be affected by me..." I don't believe it even if I see and feel signs of it. I see what you mean though. I have never been treated how I am treating T. I can imagine how it would be more difficult to deal with than I realized.

Was what she did to you during that transference at the end or before? I have never felt mistreated by her, only occasionally I feel that she resists some things bc she is not sure she knows how to treat them competently. Not to pry but did you terminate bc of these issues or unrelated?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CantExplain View Post
The real danger with maternal feelings is that your T might not want to be mothered.

There is a level of intimacy with a therapist that screams "family". How that plays out and what roles you take is a very personal thing.
So she could start getting very negative feelings potentially? I don't want that It's pretty obvious why this is happening. It's just like my relationship with my real mom, except T hasn't betrayed me... I guess I need to read more about it. Don't see T for a bit. But I can't help having this feeling that I'm affecting her personal life somehow and am worried abt her. I wish I felt comfortable contacting her :/
Hugs from:
CantExplain
  #5  
Old Oct 11, 2014, 02:39 PM
JustShakey's Avatar
JustShakey JustShakey is offline
WON'T!!!
 
Member Since: May 2014
Location: Arizona
Posts: 4,576
If it's like what happened with me it will get into termination territory eventually if it's not addressed promptly. Though you could very well spend years going in circles. This kind of relationship is like a bad drug. You need it, but it's killing you.
My whole time with previous T was one long negative maternal transference nightmare. If I tried to get her to listen to me, to what I wanted and needed, she would get angry and hurtful (like my mom). She would be very pleased when I would follow her directions and tell her how important she was to me - that she was one of my favourite people in the world. But I could never be 'good enough', just like with my mom. She always had to find fault with me. Fortunately she had supervision (because she found me difficult to deal with, again, like my mom). Maternal transference was the whole deal with her, so yeah, that's what led to termination.
Not that maternal transference can't be a powerful thing to address and work through. I'm currently working through all the material that came up with her with T, and I can vouch for the fact that it's powerful. I am not the same person I was a year ago. I had no self esteem either.
I just wish I had been able to work through this with previous T. I'm very fond of my T, but I adore previous T.
If I were you I'd bring up all your concerns with your T. Hopefully things will go well and your relationship will get stronger for it. It should go well, honestly, if your T is halfway capable at all. Mine was new and pretty inexperienced. I think it might have been the first time she came up against such strong maternal transference, but truly, the situation is not rare.
If things don't go well you will have to be very strong, because this kind of thing can literally kill the fight in you - put out the light in your soul.
__________________
'...
At poor peace I sing
To you strangers (though song
Is a burning and crested act,
The fire of birds in
The world's turning wood,
For my sawn, splay sounds,)
...'
Dylan Thomas, Author's Prologue
Thanks for this!
CantExplain, dark_sweetie, Freewilled
  #6  
Old Oct 12, 2014, 01:44 AM
Depletion's Avatar
Depletion Depletion is offline
Grand Member
 
Member Since: Jan 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 813
I spent a lot of time mothering my own mother, and I often have feelings of wanting to take care of maternal figures, I feel this way about my own T, but she has good boundaries, and know's about my feelings, so I'm not worried that something will go wrong. But the fact that your T's boundaries have changed is a recipe for disaster. I think that you might need to end it.
__________________
Your faith was strong but you needed proof
You saw her bathing on the roof
Her beauty in the moonlight overthrew you
She tied you to a kitchen chair
She broke your throne, and she cut your hair
And from your lips she drew the Hallelujah

--leonard cohen
Thanks for this!
dark_sweetie, JustShakey
  #7  
Old Oct 12, 2014, 05:03 AM
CantExplain's Avatar
CantExplain CantExplain is offline
Big Poppa
 
Member Since: Oct 2011
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 19,616
Quote:
Originally Posted by Depletion View Post
But the fact that your T's boundaries have changed is a recipe for disaster. I think that you might need to end it.
I don't agree. Relationships evolve over time.
A troubled patient needs rigid boundaries in order to feel safe. But as the patient grows and becomes more stable, it is wrong to keep treating her as a child. That's what I think.
__________________
Mr Ambassador, alias Ancient Plax, alias Captain Therapy, alias Big Poppa, alias Secret Spy, etc.

Add that to your tattoo, Baby!
Thanks for this!
dark_sweetie
  #8  
Old Oct 12, 2014, 07:46 PM
dark_sweetie's Avatar
dark_sweetie dark_sweetie is offline
Member
 
Member Since: Jan 2014
Location: US
Posts: 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by Depletion View Post
I spent a lot of time mothering my own mother, and I often have feelings of wanting to take care of maternal figures, I feel this way about my own T, but she has good boundaries, and know's about my feelings, so I'm not worried that something will go wrong. But the fact that your T's boundaries have changed is a recipe for disaster. I think that you might need to end it.
I am going to talk with her about it in a few days.. I hope. I stupidly always change when I go into the session. Blah.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CantExplain View Post
I don't agree. Relationships evolve over time.
A troubled patient needs rigid boundaries in order to feel safe. But as the patient grows and becomes more stable, it is wrong to keep treating her as a child. That's what I think.
I agree. I think the problem is I am very troubled yet I present an image that is very composed. I can fake being someone's mother, easily, and really seem like I feel all those things. But the bond that I create is hollow and my personal life continues to feel desperately hollow.

A common theme with therapists is "why are you here--what can I help you with? You're intimidating me because I'm jealous of how together you seem, yet you are asking me for help."

But it's all an act that I have learned and repeated for survival. Which makes it so hard to reveal the truth.

I have been abused by a T before and I wanted this one to be different. In many ways I know that she is... But there's also the part of me that just wants to repeat. To give and sacrifice endlessly... it is so enticing. I don't know whether this T would let that happen or not. I want to say she wouldn't. But at the same time, the real issues keep finding a way to disappear, never really talked about, even when I bring them up repeatedly.

But I think something in other people can't process that I'm hurt, I'm alone and needy, if I don't act like it. I'm trying to feel my real feelings lately I just don't know how to communicate them.
Hugs from:
CantExplain, Freewilled
Thanks for this!
Freewilled
  #9  
Old Oct 12, 2014, 09:01 PM
JustShakey's Avatar
JustShakey JustShakey is offline
WON'T!!!
 
Member Since: May 2014
Location: Arizona
Posts: 4,576
Quote:
Originally Posted by dark_sweetie View Post
I am going to talk with her about it in a few days.. I hope. I stupidly always change when I go into the session. Blah.


I agree. I think the problem is I am very troubled yet I present an image that is very composed. I can fake being someone's mother, easily, and really seem like I feel all those things. But the bond that I create is hollow and my personal life continues to feel desperately hollow.

A common theme with therapists is "why are you here--what can I help you with? You're intimidating me because I'm jealous of how together you seem, yet you are asking me for help."

But it's all an act that I have learned and repeated for survival. Which makes it so hard to reveal the truth.

I have been abused by a T before and I wanted this one to be different. In many ways I know that she is... But there's also the part of me that just wants to repeat. To give and sacrifice endlessly... it is so enticing. I don't know whether this T would let that happen or not. I want to say she wouldn't. But at the same time, the real issues keep finding a way to disappear, never really talked about, even when I bring them up repeatedly.

But I think something in other people can't process that I'm hurt, I'm alone and needy, if I don't act like it. I'm trying to feel my real feelings lately I just don't know how to communicate them.
Whoa, I could have written this...
As for changing. I know exactly what you mean, I've been there. I say print out your posts here and bring them with you. Even if you don't show them to her, you'll have a 'cheat-sheet', so to speak. I tried bringing my journal to use as a cheat sheet with previous T, it was working reasonably well, but then she choose to pull a snowflake act on me (she was horrified when I later called it a snowflake act btw, she was all my snowflake act?!, and of course I took the blame...)
and I didn't dare try to share me feelings anymore. So, I guess I'm trying to say, if your T is not receptive to your efforts to share what you're feeling behind the urge to take care of her, run.

And jealosy? Sometimes I could just feel that radiating off of her. I once loosely, and entirely accidentally, compared her to a friend of mine who is good to my children and she practically turned green. She would often make nasty little stinging comments when she was feeling particularly jealous or threatened.

I remember one session where I was trying to explain what you say when you feel like other people can't seem to process that you're hurting and need help. She gave all indication of being highly offended and practically called me a liar.

Worst thing is, all the nasty sarcastic remarks she used on me, she claimed that I used them on her.
I still haven't managed to explain to T those words were hers. I think he still thinks that I actually said some of that stuff.

Sorry for the rant, I get so angry whenever this stuff comes up.
__________________
'...
At poor peace I sing
To you strangers (though song
Is a burning and crested act,
The fire of birds in
The world's turning wood,
For my sawn, splay sounds,)
...'
Dylan Thomas, Author's Prologue
Hugs from:
CantExplain, Freewilled
  #10  
Old Oct 12, 2014, 11:53 PM
Depletion's Avatar
Depletion Depletion is offline
Grand Member
 
Member Since: Jan 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 813
Quote:
Originally Posted by CantExplain View Post
I don't agree. Relationships evolve over time.
A troubled patient needs rigid boundaries in order to feel safe. But as the patient grows and becomes more stable, it is wrong to keep treating her as a child. That's what I think.
Well I think it is important that the T stay consistent...Therapy is a very vulnerable space, no matter how much we grow. Plus if getting "more healthy" leads to changes in boundaries, this could simply cause patients to pretend that they are healthier than they are so that they can pursue unhealthy things.

That being said I think that the relationship can change. There can be more trust and closeness as time goes on. And I think that the dynamic in the relationship can change. But the therapist should always be consistent about their role as a therapist, and whatever boundaries they established should be stable.
__________________
Your faith was strong but you needed proof
You saw her bathing on the roof
Her beauty in the moonlight overthrew you
She tied you to a kitchen chair
She broke your throne, and she cut your hair
And from your lips she drew the Hallelujah

--leonard cohen
Thanks for this!
CantExplain
  #11  
Old Oct 13, 2014, 11:21 AM
dark_sweetie's Avatar
dark_sweetie dark_sweetie is offline
Member
 
Member Since: Jan 2014
Location: US
Posts: 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustShakey View Post
Whoa, I could have written this...
As for changing. I know exactly what you mean, I've been there. I say print out your posts here and bring them with you. Even if you don't show them to her, you'll have a 'cheat-sheet', so to speak. I tried bringing my journal to use as a cheat sheet with previous T, it was working reasonably well, but then she choose to pull a snowflake act on me (she was horrified when I later called it a snowflake act btw, she was all my snowflake act?!, and of course I took the blame...)
and I didn't dare try to share me feelings anymore. So, I guess I'm trying to say, if your T is not receptive to your efforts to share what you're feeling behind the urge to take care of her, run.

And jealosy? Sometimes I could just feel that radiating off of her. I once loosely, and entirely accidentally, compared her to a friend of mine who is good to my children and she practically turned green. She would often make nasty little stinging comments when she was feeling particularly jealous or threatened.

I remember one session where I was trying to explain what you say when you feel like other people can't seem to process that you're hurting and need help. She gave all indication of being highly offended and practically called me a liar.

Worst thing is, all the nasty sarcastic remarks she used on me, she claimed that I used them on her.
I still haven't managed to explain to T those words were hers. I think he still thinks that I actually said some of that stuff.

Sorry for the rant, I get so angry whenever this stuff comes up.
No no, you're okay.

It's good to be able to vent. And i identified with a lot of your feelings...

Cheat sheet: definitely. That has helped, though I still end up losing something in translation. I think the problem is that these things are novel to T in the moment and she asks for more in specific ways that I haven't prepared to answer. I always find myself having to give up on explaining something and I hate that. Because these are important thigs i need her to understand to keep us on the right track. It's just not all there when I'm with T. I can't say it right.

Fortunately this T has never been nasty with me. The only way she shows stress is becoming overly picky/stubborn and maybe venting a lot of assumptions in the form of questions.

Actually what you said about nastiness reminds me of ex abusive T. She would always find these ways to belittle me and act like i shouldn't be having a problem at all. She especially could not reconcicle having problems with seeming okay on the outside--I think she had habitually repressed her own problems. It just started becoming more and more personal and sexualized as her frustration built up. Oh yeah, and I totally know what you mean about calling you a liar. She constantly did that and it came from a place of such anger, it was shocking.

And that was a big thing, and I said it made it harder to trust Ts after that experience, but current T barely wanted to spend five minutes talking about it with me... I don't get it. =/ She hates talking about other Ts. She is a good, responsible T by normal standards, actually I have been impressed by her overall, but we always lose our train of thought (/treatment) and keep coming back to this wordless place, then we come out of it with different behaviors and boundaries and now she's so candid compared to before, and the more she is the more i want to give and give when I know I'm supposed to be taking. She used to take care of my feelings so much, now I hardly even talk about them because it feels like a waste of our hour. I hate that I wanted it to be this way, cuz we're definitely losing sight of something that goes a lot deeper than whether or not I'm coping badly on the surface. And it's getting hard to last btwn sessions cause in general I just don't even know what my life is about anymore....

I feel like maybe she's so used to dealing with squeaky wheels that this one that is too broken to even squeak is being idealized.

But, i can't run, I have nothing and nobody to run to anymore. :c I have let myself be so used in life that there's really nothing genuine left to fight for. it's really sad.
Hugs from:
CantExplain, JustShakey
  #12  
Old Oct 13, 2014, 12:08 PM
JustShakey's Avatar
JustShakey JustShakey is offline
WON'T!!!
 
Member Since: May 2014
Location: Arizona
Posts: 4,576
Sweetie, have you ever had a male T? I think having a male T essentially ensured that I would sidestep the worst of the maternal transference issues.
It's not good that your T is not open to discussing your experiences with your abusive T. You need to talk about it. I find it really hard to talk about previous T, but my T encourages it and stops me when I start blaming myself. I think it helps too that he knows her and worked with her while I was seeing her.
But really, you do need to talk about this. I just can't stress enough how damaging this is. For me anyway, it reenforced all the negative beliefs about my right to my own personhood that have been drilled into me my whole life. If your T won't listen to you, you will have to try again with someone else. There's always something to fight for, and there's lots of other Ts out there. You just have to find the right one for you. I got lucky second time around. It might be the third or the fourth time for you, but it will happen. Don't give up on yourself!
__________________
'...
At poor peace I sing
To you strangers (though song
Is a burning and crested act,
The fire of birds in
The world's turning wood,
For my sawn, splay sounds,)
...'
Dylan Thomas, Author's Prologue
Hugs from:
dark_sweetie
Thanks for this!
CantExplain, dark_sweetie
  #13  
Old Oct 13, 2014, 03:07 PM
dark_sweetie's Avatar
dark_sweetie dark_sweetie is offline
Member
 
Member Since: Jan 2014
Location: US
Posts: 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustShakey View Post
Sweetie, have you ever had a male T? I think having a male T essentially ensured that I would sidestep the worst of the maternal transference issues.
It's not good that your T is not open to discussing your experiences with your abusive T. You need to talk about it. I find it really hard to talk about previous T, but my T encourages it and stops me when I start blaming myself. I think it helps too that he knows her and worked with her while I was seeing her.
But really, you do need to talk about this. I just can't stress enough how damaging this is. For me anyway, it reenforced all the negative beliefs about my right to my own personhood that have been drilled into me my whole life. If your T won't listen to you, you will have to try again with someone else. There's always something to fight for, and there's lots of other Ts out there. You just have to find the right one for you. I got lucky second time around. It might be the third or the fourth time for you, but it will happen. Don't give up on yourself!
Aww thanks Shakey!!!

Re:male T, i don't know that it would go better, I think i actually had paternal transference for ex T, bc I was literally terrified of her before every session and it went much the same as interactions with my dad (she did complain exasperatedly that she was having to parent me.)

But, I do want to make it work with current T, since she's the best option in my area, and I really do like her, I know she will come around if I draw more attention to it, I'm just scared. I'll try to remember your suggestions and i'll be careful if I start hearing lines from ex t's playbook though ><

I'm going to keep working to change these beliefs and it's so encouraging to know that you have been there with these feelings and eventually still could find a great working relationship. Might try to update soon.
Reply
Views: 1171

attentionThis is an old thread. You probably should not post your reply to it, as the original poster is unlikely to see it.




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:36 PM.
Powered by vBulletin® — Copyright © 2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.




 

My Support Forums

My Support Forums is the online community that was originally begun as the Psych Central Forums in 2001. It now runs as an independent self-help support group community for mental health, personality, and psychological issues and is overseen by a group of dedicated, caring volunteers from around the world.

 

Helplines and Lifelines

The material on this site is for informational purposes only, and is not a substitute for medical advice, diagnosis or treatment provided by a qualified health care provider.

Always consult your doctor or mental health professional before trying anything you read here.