Would you judge your t?

Partless · Nov 06, 2014, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnakeCharmer

You can't tell by looking at someone if they were abused as a child or ...

And I imagine that's one of the two differences between that and this case, because here you can tell (Lauliza said it's "unsolicited self-disclosure"), and also because it's on a therapist (who you are paying to help you get well), not some random person or a family member. So I get the people who find it uncomfortable or would rather not see a therapist with visible scars (or other signs of having dealt with serious mental illness).

Which is not a justification of it or judgement that such a person would be a bad therapist but simply an explanation as so why some people would dislike seeing sch a person. People refuse to see a particular therapist for many reasons, could be a mismatch of personality or religious views, could be sexual orientation, gender, visible tattoos or piercings or style of clothing or whatever. I think therapy requires a kind of closeness and vulnerability that is frightening enough on its own that people don't want to take any risks. They don't want to get triggered by just looking at a therapist or keep worrying about the therapist's health or about being misunderstood or rejected. Plus that they are paying so it's a professional service and consumer has the option to choose what suits them.

Freewilled · Nov 06, 2014, 07:14 PM

Here's another take on it:

Would you see an obese T?
What about a T who smokes cigarettes?

To me, these are the same as SI...coping or self-punishment tools. It's just that SI is not socially acceptable. And they all can be visible on the outside.

Just a thought....

JustShakey · Nov 06, 2014, 07:36 PM

My T is a smoker. That doesn't bother me. A T who is very overweight might though - my mother has problems with her weight and knowing my history with maternal transference...

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msxyz · Nov 06, 2014, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaybird57

I get it that people are put off by SI and they want the person treating them in psychotherapy as having their, you know what, together. Anyway, I find it so sad that all of us on this forum talk about resenting being judged by others sooooooooooo much. There have even been discussions about how we resent, worry, angst about our therapists judging us. And yes, sometimes they do! Yet we admit freely that we'd judge the person who is willing to work with us therapeutically. I get it that if the person is an idiot who has no concept of how therapy should be conducted or she allows her personal issues to interfere with our therapy that we would immediately get out of the situation. But what about the skilled and compassionate therapist who demonstrates the ability to BE THERE with us in our pain, confusion and anger about getting well? There are so many ways that we could tell that the person we made an appointment with is poorly trained, mentally unstable or unmotivated and uninterested in our issues. I guess I'm saying, isn't it okay to stay with a therapist who went through hell and got through to the other side? It's pretty typical in addiction services that this kind of life experience makes for a better, more clinically aware therapist. Wrong?

I don't think not feeling comfortable with a therapist with self injury scars is the same as judging them, that suggests a moral component that I haven't sensed in this thread.

We don't owe it to any therapist to give them a try. People can have any arbitrary selection criteria they want, age, sex, location, and I don't see how visible scars are different.

We're supposed to feel comfortable with the person and it doesn't matter why we don't if we don't, feelings are irrational and that's OK.

tealBumblebee · Nov 06, 2014, 10:02 PM

As a self harmer, if my T had experienced it and was able to recover - I think that I would find it as hope. So long as he/she didn't try to force their way of ending to be mine, I imagine they'd have both professional and personal experience to be a good guide & fit for that situation. I do think that people in general who don't self harm, don't (and won't) understand it but that's the nature of the beast. Having a T that can relate to you on such an intimate level would be beneficial to many people.

guilloche · Nov 06, 2014, 10:52 PM

I also think it's wonderful and inspiring that you're pursuing your dream, that you want to help people, and that you're brave enough (and curious and intelligent enough) to ask for feedback here on this.

I think it just varies so much from person to person... some people may not even notice, some will notice and be comfortable asking about it, some won't.

For me, personally (and remembering that this is just me!) - I already have SUCH a hard time with therapy, such a hard time being open about stuff, and such a hard time not worrying about my Ts reactions to me and how things I say might affect him or our relationship... I think that if I noticed early on (and I truly might not) - it would be a distraction from therapy.

What I mean is - I'm not really brave/pushy enough to come out and say, "hey there T, what's up with those scars?" Heck, even something less big and personal feels hard to ask for me, and that feels SO PERSONAL, there's no way I'd ask a T that I didn't know well.

That means that if I noticed, I'd probably spend alot of time worrying about things like whether or not my guess that it was SI was correct, whether or not the T was truly better (or still at risk), whether I could share my darkest stuff with them - or if those things would trigger them to go SI more...

I think with a different, more confident client who could bring these things up - it might be ok, because you could talk about them, and assure them that you can handle their stuff. But for someone like me, it would really not be helpful to my therapy, I think.

I also think though that, as others said, it's a disclosure thing. Would you disclose past traumas to a brand new client on their first visit? Probably not, I assume. So maybe think of it like that?

Good luck in your studies!

StressedMess · Nov 06, 2014, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skies_

This is a really predominate point in this discussion imo. Stressed, all my scars are all on the inside too.

Your post was so poignant.

Aside from the visibility issues, I'm thinking this issue isn't any different from all of the invisible issues that therapists have. Yet I totally understand why some would not be ok with having a therapist with scars. And that some are ok with it. Like Asia said, both are ok... Great thread with great responses that seem to be potentially helpful to those aspiring to enter the profession. I like the example of Marsha Linehan--very inspiring.

Maybe this is somewhat of a tangent, but I think my interest in this thread originates from being sensitive to exclusion of people with mental health issues from different areas of life. I can't speak for others, but my MI issues have prevented me from pursuing my dreams; and although I've tried, the vigor and passion are gone. I'm exhausted. Having limited opportunities for this and other areas of life because of my childhood really hurts. I missed out on so much. I still have some hope to get some of my passion back through psychotherapy...but I am also aware of the reality of my limits due to my present circumstances.

Anyway, I wanted to share my experience and how it relates to all of this. Though not everyone has the ego strength or health to pursue all of their goals, whatever they might be, I'm really inspired by people who can turn around adversity into something good. (Did you ever see the movie Pay it Forward?)

Red, I think it's very positive that you are exploring this and related issues. You are brave for asking about this here and you are inspiring. Inspiration surely has a positive effect on clts, and you might find some of them sitting across from you inphe room someday. Best of luck withour proessionalndeavors. :hug

PS I have said before that there would be a huge shortage of therapists if those with MH issues were not able to enter the profession. ha

Hugs for you too! I often feel that my opinions don't count, it's nice to be recognized.

I think the great thing about threads like these is seeing so many different perspectives at the same time, helps break me out of the mold I find myself stuck in. I never thought I would "worry" about a professional I seek help from, but the more comments I read, the easier it seems to notice something is wrong and how human I might be if I felt worried for T. Feeling like a robot is second nature now. . .

Partless · Nov 07, 2014, 01:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freewilled

Here's another take on it:

Would you see an obese T?
What about a T who smokes cigarettes?

To me, these are the same as SI...coping or self-punishment tools. It's just that SI is not socially acceptable. And they all can be visible on the outside.

Just a thought....

Well, obviously SI is more serious.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akama

I don't think not feeling comfortable with a therapist with self injury scars is the same as judging them, that suggests a moral component that I haven't sensed in this thread.

Judging doesn't necessarily indicate a moral component. People could judge a therapist as incompetent, for instance.

stopdog · Nov 07, 2014, 02:05 AM

I don't consider si more serious.

Partless · Nov 07, 2014, 02:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stopdog

I don't consider si more serious.

Therapist I've been to, seem to take self harm (cutting) and suicidal thoughts/actions more seriously than if somebody gained weight or goes for a smoke. Or perhaps I misunderstand what "si" means.

stopdog · Nov 07, 2014, 02:17 AM

I disagree with therapists who take it more seriously than other things.

RedSun · Nov 07, 2014, 03:48 AM

Yes, SI can be seen as a more urgent situation and therefore acted on more quickly...but someone who is very obese is far more likely to have their health and well being affected long term, or even lose their life to their condition, than someone who SIs. Most SI is not connected to, or intended as, Sui.
I spoke to my t about this thread yesterday, and about my misgivings of feeling that I could appropriately support clients. She said that surely the hands of someone who has suffered and come through it are the safest hands to be in? Then she teared up a bit, and so did I. Awww.
So, she was very helpful, and I do feel better about it now. Thanks for all the feedback on here, it has been very helpful and interesting. T said that some people will never want to see their t as human or flawed, and that's okay, but we heal when we understand, and have compassion for, the truth of every persons suffering and their strength to come through.

ScarletPimpernel · Nov 07, 2014, 04:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red75

Most SI is not connected to, or intended as, Sui.

This is true. SI is about coping with pain. SUI is about ending pain. However, people who SI are at a high risk for accidental SUI. So technically, SI can be much more serious than being obese or a smoker.

My T and Pdoc are actually more worried about my SI than my SUI thoughts. The last time I SI'ed, I required medical attention.

But I don't think anyone is saying a T can't have a past with SI. Most just don't want to know about it/see it.

Partless · Nov 07, 2014, 05:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red75

Yes, SI can be seen as a more urgent situation and therefore acted on more quickly...but someone who is very obese is far more likely to have their health and well being affected long term, or even lose their life to their condition, than someone who SIs. Most SI is not connected to, or intended as, Sui.

Well, my T seemed to take it pretty serious, more so than obesity. And I was quite obese at the time I was seeing my T. I even tried to discount those thoughts multiple times, as just passing thoughts, but not my T, who saw the ideation as the work of a mind so powerless and hopeless that escape from living is considered as the only way out of the pain and misery.

My T seemed to see a link from SI to suicide and it concerned her quite a bit. Perhaps my T was worried about accidental sui, like ScarletPimpernel mentioned. Or maybe my T was anxious because of some client maybe who committed sui and she had not taken the signs serious, I don't know. Regardless, that is just my experience with one T when I was a teen.

nottrustin · Nov 07, 2014, 06:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freewilled

Here's another take on it:

Would you see an obese T?
What about a T who smokes cigarettes?

To me, these are the same as SI...coping or self-punishment tools. It's just that SI is not socially acceptable. And they all can be visible on the outside.

Just a thought....

obesity yes because. As far as smoking goes I was actually thinking about this a couple weeks ago when T mentioned that she was a long time smoker. The only reason she quit is because of the health risk. I really don't think I could see them if they did. I am very sensitive to the smell of smoke and it makes me sick to my stomach. So to go into a room with the smell of smoke would not be relaxing or comforting for me.

When I first met my husband he was a smoker. He quit because he knew I hated the smell.

nottrustin · Nov 07, 2014, 06:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red75

Yes, SI can be seen as a more urgent situation and therefore acted on more quickly...but someone who is very obese is far more likely to have their health and well being affected long term, or even lose their life to their condition, than someone who SIs. Most SI is not connected to, or intended as, Sui.
I spoke to my t about this thread yesterday, and about my misgivings of feeling that I could appropriately support clients. She said that surely the hands of someone who has suffered and come through it are the safest hands to be in? Then she teared up a bit, and so did I. Awww.
So, she was very helpful, and I do feel better about it now. Thanks for all the feedback on here, it has been very helpful and interesting. T said that some people will never want to see their t as human or flawed, and that's okay, but we heal when we understand, and have compassion for, the truth of every persons suffering and their strength to come through.

Working where I work I have a really hard time not connecting the two on some level. Where I work most of those who cut say they do so as part of their SUI attempt. While I realize this isn't always and there are many reason people I do it. I would have to wonder if T is safe.

I know T's are human. I know some of the struggles my T has faced and proud of what she has accomplished. I know that she understands somewhat what I am going through. SI is a sign that a person is some type of crisis so again I would worry.

Nov 07, 2014, 08:21 AM

You will and can be a great therapist for some people, probably many people. Don't give up your dreams.

For me it isn't about not seeing my therapist as flawed or having struggles or being human. I know everyone has struggles. I just couldn't handle wanting to take care of him/her. Everyone has pain in some way. Every therapist can't have gone through everything. That doesn't mean they can't relate to their clients and help them heal. Just because they haven't self injured doesn't mean they aren't able to have compassion. I don't understand that logic.

incandescence · Nov 07, 2014, 11:51 AM

i don't think i would show the scars until you have developed a connected, trusting relationship with a client. and even then i think it would depend on that client's personality. my T doesn't reveal much, but she has disclosed to me in 2 different situations things that related to trauma that i was dealing with and it was very helpful to me to know that she understood what i was feeling. i guess it just depends on the person. good luck!

grimtopaz · Nov 07, 2014, 12:14 PM

I wouldn't mind that they had SH (as long as it was a long time in the past), but I would be upset that they wouldn't think to cover them up.

NowhereUSA · Nov 07, 2014, 12:32 PM

I'm responding to a thought a few pages back...

I don't expect my T to be untouched by trauma. I just don't want him having had my same trauma. He's not perfect and he has his things like every person in the world and at the same time, his things are my things and that is a HUGE relief to me.

I prefer a T who is different to me in a lot of ways. Idk why, I just do.

Nov 07, 2014, 01:44 PM

I wouldn't want a T so thoughtless as to shove his/her issues in my face. There's a reason T asks me how my week went, and not the other way around. Therapy is about ME, not about the T. It would cause me distress for no reason at all.

RedSun · Nov 07, 2014, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Breadfish

I wouldn't want a T so thoughtless as to shove his/her issues in my face. There's a reason T asks me how my week went, and not the other way around. Therapy is about ME, not about the T. It would cause me distress for no reason at all.

As I've mentioned a few times in this thread, I would not show my scars, at all, ever,( unless a client needed to see for some very specific reason, and I can't think of any reason!) also, as I've said, I would not practice if I was in a place where I was SI ing OR drinking too much, not sleeping, having bad relationship issues...because all of these can affect the therapeutic relationship.

I totally understand that people on here say that SI would be triggering for them, or too much disclosure (though again, I would not show the scars!) and I really respect that and thank them for their honesty.

And I totally agree that, for some T's, a 'history' can help with empathy and understanding, and for some this is not beneficial. It's certainly not necessary. I will have studied for eight years by the time I qualify so I don't think I'm using any history to compensate for studying or qualifications....

But, wow, it's so unhelpful to be called thoughtless, when I am asking this question because I am hoping to ensure that I always consider the clients needs.

Nov 07, 2014, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red75

As I've mentioned a few times in this thread, I would not show my scars, at all, ever,( unless a client needed to see for some very specific reason, and I can't think of any reason!) also, as I've said, I would not practice if I was in a place where I was SI ing OR drinking too much, not sleeping, having bad relationship issues...because all of these can affect the therapeutic relationship.

I totally understand that people on here say that SI would be triggering for them, or too much disclosure (though again, I would not show the scars!) and I really respect that and thank them for their honesty.

And I totally agree that, for some T's, a 'history' can help with empathy and understanding, and for some this is not beneficial. It's certainly not necessary. I will have studied for eight years by the time I qualify so I don't think I'm using any history to compensate for studying or qualifications....

But, wow, it's so unhelpful to be called thoughtless, when I am asking this question because I am hoping to ensure that I always consider the clients needs.

I'm sorry. I didn't mean to say you are thoughtless. I meant that, if a T would show up at a random appointment with a random client and was wearing short sleeves because that's what she felt like doing, THAT would be thoughtless.

And I hadn't gathered/remembered that you had mentioned that you wouldn't show the scars - I thought you were talking about showing them.

Also re-reading my post I realize I was out of line. English is not my first language and while that is no excuse, it does make me come across harsher than I intend a lot of the time because I can't use figure of speech as well as in my own language.
My apologies. I didn't mean to imply you were thoughtless, I didn't mean to be unhelpful and I didn't mean to hurt you if I did.

Nov 07, 2014, 04:05 PM

I prefer that my T have gone through a good degree of personal challenge so that she understands human suffering and the difficulties in getting better. It's all hypothetical otherwise.

However, I would prefer that T not reveal what those personal challenges are, or wear clothing that reveals SH. TMI, IMO.

ThisWayOut · Nov 07, 2014, 04:33 PM

I've been following this thread and reading through everyone's responses. I want to thank you Red for posing this question. I worked in mental health for roughly 15 years before I stepped out of it due to my own issues. In that time, I went through various stages of being ok with my si scars. They had been at least 10 years old at the time I started in the field, but I remember not wearing short sleeves for a good 5 years while at work. After that, I was less consciously aware of the scars and would be less careful about my wardrobe choice. While my scars are not overly noticable, if you happen to look at my arm in the right lighting, or you look for more than a glance, they are visible. I want to get tattoos to cover the scars. I have wanted this for quite some time, but it's costly, so I haven't done it yet.

Would you be more put off by a clinician with a tattoo sleeve, or with si scars? I guess even with the tattoo I would likely wear long sleeves for my clients, but in the event of short sleeves happening, what would turn you off more: the judgements around (pg-rated) body art, or the judgements around scarring?

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