Do rigid boundaries hurt more than they help?

I am not a hugger. I am not very fond of a handshake, as a matter of fact.

Why should a professional relax their boundaries around touch to make a client more comfortable?

If client needs touchy-feely therapy they are free to seek it elsewhere.

I wouldn't be alone in thinking something is wrong with a T who changed their boundaries to suit each client, would I?

I certainly would not advocate anything that made the T uuncomfortable, or was totally out of line with their normal boundaries, but I do know many T's that adapt to the needs fo the client. Current T does not offer hugs or email contact to me, but I do know she has done both for at least one other client. She has kept me later however, when I was in a particularly bad space by the usual end time of our session. Generally, we end on time, but as need arises, that boundary is flexible. I have had T's call me initially blocking their cell phones or home numbers, but then grow lax on that as I don't contact then there without express permission each time. I know some clients would grow relentlessly obsessed with having alternate numbers. I have also encountered T's who were more apt to offer additional sessions to some clients but not others...
I also to try to have boundary discussions with T's very early on, as I tend to be hyper-aware of trying not to cross them. I need to know my boundaries so I don't accidentally mess up with them. i'm sure there are ones T's don't think about until they are crossed, or until they are asked about. I'm also pretty sure most clients are not as worried about it as I may be. When I say I advocate for fluid boundaries to meet the needs of the client, I also mean fluidity of when and how they are discussed or created. If something were to change with me, I would hope T would tighten or loosen her boundaries to best help me deal with whatever is going on (within her realm of comfort).
I would be worried about a T who randomly shifts boundaries without therapeutic necessity. I would also worry about a T who holds incredibly lax boundaries around one client and incredibly strict around another if it's not in the therapeutic best interest of both the clients and T to do so...

Well put. My brain was only firing on one cylinder when I typed that response. Yours is much more coherent!

My T has never touched me. I don't know if that's her thing or if she recognizes that it's my thing, but we've never even brushed fingers while exchanging the appointment card. It never occurred to me to ask her about it because it meets a need for me.

She has offered many times for me to call and vent to her voice mail, making sure I understood there would be no return call. It never would have occurred to me to do that because it's not going to meet any need I have at this time.

I guess since I'm a novice at the whole therapy thing, I'm not aware of what I want or need and whether I should be concerned about either of our boundaries, something I will definitely bring up with her now.

Thanks for the insight!

I think boundaries can be something discussed as needed. I have a need to know what parameters to operate within... it's something I'm working on in therapy (not necessarily something to aspire to, lol!)

I have a hard time with boundaries. Not in crossing them but in seeing them. When I sense a boundary, I run 80 thousand miles in the other direction.

For example, I used to have my Ts extension but then they changed them. I tried asking my T for his extension twice and he was evasive (which is hilarious since I literally *never* call). I called him on it in a recent e-mail and intend to call him on it in session.

I like to be told point blank where the boundaries are. It makes me anxious when I have to divine them. Flexible boundaries make me panicky and yet are exactly what I need because I've lived a very rigid life. It's been good for me :P

I don't know if it's by state for for all of the US, but where I live there is a legal limit on the amount spent on a gift for teachers because they are government employees and like you say, expensive gifts can be used as bribes (the limit is also on postal service workers and other government paid people). In elementary schools we have "room mothers" and one of the things we do is arrange for holiday and the end of year gifts to be given from the entire class. Individual is an option but not usual. So parents give about $5 -$10 and a gift is bought to give from the entire class. So individually gifts cannot exceed $50, but group gifts can. Class gifts are so commonplace now that it would be odd for a parent to give a teacher their own expensive gift, and their kid would be mortified.

For therapists, I agree it is a little strange to be in the same category as teachers and gov't employees. I can see how a psychiatrist could be bribed, but I don't see the same potential with T's. Still, in the corporate world the money limit for gifts is accepted practice and therapy is a business relationship. I think it's in the code of ethics to keep that boundary in place since it's easy to forget that it is a professional relationship. A gift that is very expensive would take on a different meaning and be awkward to accept for most people.

Perfect post.

I have no rigid boundaries myself at all but when it comes to medical professionals I much prefer, no, I demand rigid boundaries. No touching when unnecessary, and especially no hugs. Too many times I had been caught up in ambiguous situations that induced stress. To me dealing with situations like that is very uncomfortable and my default is do not touch me.
Sometimes I don't like when they talk too much in emotional situations. I think it serves to soothe them in the first place, so they won't lose control.

So much can be achieved solely by the tone of voice, speed of speech, intonation, words chosen. Here hugs are safe

Responding to emails or texts in crisis I imagine is part of the job. Sincere thank you is enough.

My therapist just bashed my Ex T regarding his loose boundaries with his clients.
I think he is holding his boundaries tight with me because he knows I spent so many years with Ex T and I think he believes I was not done justice, that I shouldn't have grown so attached, that I should be further along with my growth. He has somewhat reluctantly allowed me to email him as long as I don't do it too often, and as long as I don't expect a response. If I am having a hard time, he has offered an extra session,
but usually I don't need that....I would just like to talk on the phone for a few minutes.
But, he says he doesn't do phone therapy. I think that is being too ridged. He know how much that type of contact has meant to me. I think a T should bend a little to what was offered by previous T, knowing the difficulty of lack of support one is used to would be. Funny, I longed for the occasional hug from my ex T......I cant see that I will ever care to have a hug from new one. Even if he loosens up a little with me, no hug required thank you. For me, the attraction to my T was the main reason to hug him. I miss that attraction. I miss the playfulness in my therapy. I like loose boundaries I guess.

What specifically about your ex-Ts boundaries did he bash?

I will say my first therapist never hugged and I was ok with that. She didn't offer an email address or any way to contact her but her work line, never hugged or touched me at all, never self disclosed. Our "therapy" together kinda felt like me wallowing in my own dispair totally alone with a cold old lady to witness it for me.

Sometimes people need that in a T. My T is like that, and I hate it. I do NOT need that in a T, it hurts me but then again it might be for the best since I have transference physical contact could make it worse. A tricky question. I would like to be able to give her a gift or keep in email contact with her, but the latter she's said we can't...a bit hurtful to say the least. We have discussed it though and I get that it's not her choice, she could get fired if she bent the rules, but still....it does suck.

Today I am going to discuss boundaries with her. I get the "I don't hug" thing, but at give me an email address.

Why email rather than simply sending letters by regular post to their office?

emails are much easier and faster to send, get a reply.

I am not a huge fan of email in a lot of circumstances because of the ease and implied quickness. It is way too easy for people (I am not just talking in the therapy arena here) to fire stuff off without reflection and then anxiously await a response which may or may not come. I tell my students I will respond within 48 hours - usually by the time I reply at the end of that time - they have moved on/figured it out for themselves. They often send an email because it is easier and quicker than handling it themselves.

I write the therapist, but I do not want the woman to respond. If I want a response, I call. I have not found, for me, email response from the woman to be beneficial except for scheduling. But I also like writing actual letters and think there is more benefit to doing such.

I get that going through emails is probably less thoughtful as to writing a letter. When I write emails, I really take my time and go over it (if its something important). I think she has a family, so answering my email would be easier on her than writing me a letter. It would also take a few days for the send to receive to go down. I don't like talking on the phone.

Email away if you like - The expectation of a response is where I think it fails for therapy for most. I agree with regular post there is usually no response in kind from a therapist.

That is if she will allow me to email her. I am guessing that since she doesn't advertise her email, she won't allow it.

She may not give you her personal email, but if she works for a group or agency there may be a work email. I would just reiterate that emails can cause more anxiety than you'd expect since a response is never guaranteed, as Stopdog pointed out.

I don't get the rigid no-hug thing either so longs as it's within the socially acceptable range of how most people outside therapy perceive them. For many people a hug is simply a greeting or gesture of friendliness and usually not much more.

I suppose if put it in the context of her having a hugging "policy", she may say no. But if you just tell her that for you, a hug once in a while a hug is comforting, I'd think it would be hard to say no to that.

The more boundaries and rules we find the more insecure and distrustful T's can appear.

I don't think they all agree that a therapist should be comforting to a client.

And here is a view on it from a jungian. I don't like the woman but I find her perspective interesting to know about:
Touch in Therapy | Jung At Heart

Which is why I do challenge some boundaries. My T used to only allow me to write 2 emails a week. I completely understand why. But she was constantly saying she trusted me. So I challenged the rule. I told her that she should trust me with how much I email and remove the limit. She agreed. Now she allows me to email as much as I want. But she knows that I am mindful of what and how much I should write. Some weeks I don't email. Most weeks I only email once or twice. I have a few times emailed more (up to 6 times). But she was okay with it because I actually needed it.

I respect all boundaries even if I don't like them or don't understand them. But I still can question them and challenge them even if they won't change.

I've read this argument before, that if you "act out" a feeling it makes it less available to discuss... Is this what you think Stopdog? I get that you don't want hugs (I assume) and with some ex therapists I didn't either. Now I have one I have a strong urge to hug and we do hug, but I'm also able to think about and at times even discuss the underlying feelings... So I suppose I reject the idea "acting out" makes me less able to know what I'm feeling. I've hugged my T and told him what I'm feeling, and been well aware and discussed my "neediness" for him. In my mind the hugs haven't hurt me, but of course I'm not objective to answer that either. I do think if my T rejected me it would hurt. I would take it personally somehow, I would assume I'm repulsive, stupid, undesirable, all the things my depression has told me I am... That's what I think anyways.

Or another example, let's say I'm angry at my mother (as a kid) and I lash out by breaking and destroying her property. Does that make me less able to comprehend my anger, or not?

I think this is very interesting and makes very valid points. Personally, I've never longed for a hug from a therapist, so I don't relate to this need. My family did not touch or hug growing up, so I have never been a person who is open with touch. My friends hug a lot so over the years I've become much more open to touch. Still, it's never really crossed my mind to hug a T. So as a future T, I would be curious as to what's behind the need for a hug from a therapist in particular. I wouldn't want to hurt feelings, but this article does point out important things to consider.

Sometimes a hug is just a hug

Honestly, this is why I love that my T is DBT trained. We don't spend a great deal of time on minutiae (for me this is trivial - I know it may not be for others). The one time I've asked for a hug, I just... needed a hug. I think it's part of the human experience to have touch be part of our emotional and relational packages - how much will vary from person to person and where it comes from as well. I've worked with my T for six years and it took me that long to ask for a hug though truly it hadn't occurred to me until this last summer.

It did what I needed it to do. And that was that.

my T has hugged me twice at the end of sessions - including the day i admitted to my transference issues - but at my last session (which was kind of a rough one) i asked for a hug at the end and she told me no. she said she didn't want me to feel rejected (umm, yeah kind of unavoidable), but that she felt like my transference issues were coming back up again and she didn't want to "muddy the waters" for me. man that hurt. and i guess the worst part was that it was at the end of the session and there was no opportunity to discuss it further. she doesn't do email and phone calls are unreturned unless it's truly a crisis. i trust her judgement and i guess she is just trying to protect me from myself, but that rejection - intentional or not - felt awful. i just wanted some comfort, but unfortunately we are doing some dbt stuff and working on self-soothing so i guess it was a teaching moment. i don't mind fluid boundaries, but it sure does hurt when they become more rigid without warning.