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  #626  
Old Apr 02, 2015, 05:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mastodon View Post
You know what they call alternative medicine that has been validated in clinical trials? "Medicine". That is all there is to it, that is the difference. Some alternative medicine is effective, of course (and some of it can by definition never be effective). There is a huge span in what is included in that umbrella definition. (I know that you know all this. I am not quite sober, I guess, so I'm too verbose.)
I love that quote Mast

I'm not entirely sober either. Klonopin + about three glasses of wine. WOOOOHHEEEE LOLOLOLOL

I'm going to go play my video game on my brand spankin' new XBox One in a minute. Because beautiful colors while drunk.
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  #627  
Old Apr 02, 2015, 05:10 PM
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I am not the keen observer of mucus/phlegm and sinus goo that you are. So alas, I have nothing to report other than that I do feel better and attribute it to my apple cider vinegar etc consumption.
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  #628  
Old Apr 02, 2015, 05:15 PM
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Still feeling ok today. I'm actually surprised... But this is good. Maybe this won't be as hard as I've worked it up to be.
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  #629  
Old Apr 02, 2015, 05:21 PM
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Not reading stuff on ADs.. I HAVE to go on something, because T alone is just not cutting it. So, I have to go into this being hopeful that ADs will work for me.. and I assuming that it will be an SSRI that will be Rx to me.

T tomorrow..
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  #630  
Old Apr 02, 2015, 06:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stopdog View Post
I don't think natural remedies only work because of the placebo effect - certainly no more than the drugs created by the drug overlord companies.
I don't care if someone doesn't want to try them, but they are no less real than the plastic stuff put out by the chemists. I have used them to quite good effect - not for depression but for physical things like infection (raw honey) and so forth as well as a specific ptsd situation (sacral cranial energy work). And I swear by acupuncture.

I agree with this. And I'm a chemist who makes plastic stuff for the drug overlord companies (hey, plastic is awesome too!!!)

The natural remedies actually work better for some people. And the pretty smell is more than just pretty - it stimulates the secretion of feel-good hormones and neurotransmitters like seratonin. Stuff that smells good makes you feel good. You don't need science to know that.
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'...
At poor peace I sing
To you strangers (though song
Is a burning and crested act,
The fire of birds in
The world's turning wood,
For my sawn, splay sounds,)
...'
Dylan Thomas, Author's Prologue
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  #631  
Old Apr 02, 2015, 06:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by healed84 View Post
Not reading stuff on ADs.. I HAVE to go on something, because T alone is just not cutting it. So, I have to go into this being hopeful that ADs will work for me.. and I assuming that it will be an SSRI that will be Rx to me.


T tomorrow..

I was prescribed Escitalopram on Monday. Opted not to take it at the moment as I've had a slight upswing this last week. If things keep going up I won't take it. If they go down, I might. I see my doctor again in two weeks to follow up.

I'm not opposed to trying it.
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  #632  
Old Apr 02, 2015, 06:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stopdog View Post
The times I have been the appellate atty for plaintiffs against drug companies has made me quite skeptical of the drugs and awful side effects and their bogus studies. But if some of it helps some people - it is okay with me. I just don't think science and drug companies are as reliable as we might wish.

I kinda have to agree. We scientists get very defensive about 'our' science. (Just watch Richard Dawkins make an eejit out of himself if you have any doubt - a brilliant scientist, but he thinks everyone should agree with him) Modern medicine is literally a godsend, but it is in its infancy. Sometimes we forget that.
It's also important to remember that the compounds that become drugs are usually isolated from natural sources.
__________________
'...
At poor peace I sing
To you strangers (though song
Is a burning and crested act,
The fire of birds in
The world's turning wood,
For my sawn, splay sounds,)
...'
Dylan Thomas, Author's Prologue

Last edited by JustShakey; Apr 02, 2015 at 06:52 PM.
  #633  
Old Apr 02, 2015, 06:38 PM
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CantExplain CantExplain is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stopdog View Post
I think it is a bit off to consider all alternative medicine as placebo effect.
I trust centuries of people not dying from everything without scientists more than I do drug companies. I don't trust drug companies or their alleged studies and scientists - if you do - then fine.
The placebo effect is a real effect.

They did a seasickness story on Mythbusters, and one of the cures they tried was a placebo. They told Adam and Grant that it was a genuine pharmaceutical seasickness remedy when in fact it was only a vitamin pill. Adam got no benefit but Grant did.
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  #634  
Old Apr 02, 2015, 06:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stopdog View Post
The times I have been the appellate atty for plaintiffs against drug companies has made me quite skeptical of the drugs and awful side effects and their bogus studies. But if some of it helps some people - it is okay with me. I just don't think science and drug companies are as reliable as we might wish.
I'm sure the drug companies feel the same about the legal system.
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  #635  
Old Apr 02, 2015, 06:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CantExplain View Post
The placebo effect is a real effect.


They did a seasickness story on Mythbusters, and one of the cures they tried was a placebo. They told Adam and Grant that it was a genuine pharmaceutical seasickness remedy when in fact it was only a vitamin pill. Adam got no benefit but Grant did.

Another interesting facet of the placebo effect - if you believe something is not going to work it likely will not, even if it is a legit drug. The mind is unbelievably powerful.
__________________
'...
At poor peace I sing
To you strangers (though song
Is a burning and crested act,
The fire of birds in
The world's turning wood,
For my sawn, splay sounds,)
...'
Dylan Thomas, Author's Prologue
Thanks for this!
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  #636  
Old Apr 02, 2015, 06:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CantExplain View Post
I'm sure the drug companies feel the same about the legal system.

Touchι
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'...
At poor peace I sing
To you strangers (though song
Is a burning and crested act,
The fire of birds in
The world's turning wood,
For my sawn, splay sounds,)
...'
Dylan Thomas, Author's Prologue
Thanks for this!
CantExplain
  #637  
Old Apr 02, 2015, 06:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stopdog View Post
I admit I trust the pot grower, bee keeper, and chinese herbalist I know more than I trust any drug company.
The trustworthiness of the supplier and the trustworthiness of the product are not the same thing.

I'm sure your Chinese herbalist is a wonderful human being and has your best interests at heart - and that has medical value, too. But that doesn't mean the herbs are any good.
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  #638  
Old Apr 02, 2015, 06:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustShakey View Post
I kinda have to agree. We scientists get very defense about 'our' science. (Just watch Richard Dawkins make an eejit out of himself if you have any doubt - a brilliant scientist, but he thinks everyone should agree with him) Modern medicine is literally a godsend, but it is in its infancy. Sometimes we forget that.
It's also important to remember that the compounds that become drugs are usually isolated from natural sources.
McCoy: You can't leave him in the hands of 20th century medicine!
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  #639  
Old Apr 02, 2015, 07:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CantExplain View Post
The placebo effect is a real effect.

T.
I did not say it is not real - I said it is not the only reason alternative methods work

Quote:
Originally Posted by CantExplain View Post
I'm sure the drug companies feel the same about the legal system.
They are not the only ones.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CantExplain View Post
The trustworthiness of the supplier and the trustworthiness of the product are not the same thing.

I'm sure your Chinese herbalist is a wonderful human being and has your best interests at heart - and that has medical value, too. But that doesn't mean the herbs are any good.
I trust the herbalist to choose good herbs. I do not depend upon the herbalist to have my best interest at heart any more than I do a drug company or a therapist. I believe herbs have been used to good effect for centuries.
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Well Behaved Women Seldom Make History - Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
Pain is inevitable. Suffering is optional.

Last edited by stopdog; Apr 02, 2015 at 07:41 PM.
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  #640  
Old Apr 02, 2015, 07:34 PM
Anonymous43207
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Hey couch!! I enjoyed reading all the comments about the pharmaceuticals. I'm so thankful that I was able to get off the AD's that I was on; while initially they saved my life and I am grateful for that, as I started getting healthier mentally, I didn't like how they made me feel robotic or zombified or whatever.

And an update on my mini-freak-out last night over that video, I talked myself through it today w/out calling t. Told myself basically, that I needed to "walk my talk" and prove to myself that I'm ready to be done w/therapy. When I first got to work I was still all up in my head and just out of it, couldn't focus, kept having to ask people to repeat themselves, and wanted to talk to t in the worst way. That was when I told myself "Art, why don't you work your own way out of this and prove to yourself that you're done with therapy." So I proceeded to describe the video I watched to 3 of my friends, and after talking it 3 times, I finally got it out of my head enough to get MYSELF outta my head, and was back to normal by sometime after lunch, and I did it w/out calling t!

While it really threw me for a loop last night, I'm glad for it now, because it gave me the opportunity to work through it w/out t. I will talk about it with her next week anyway, because my reaction was so strong. But I feel good that I handled it for the time being w/out her help.
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  #641  
Old Apr 02, 2015, 09:00 PM
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Just found out that one of my oldest friends may be in an abusive relationship. Her family is worried about her and she's stopped talking to some of her siblings. She's supposed to be getting married soon and her wedding arrangements are just weird... Rings true because I couldn't meet up with her last time I was home because she was 'away'. She's like me too - tends to fall hard for arseholes...
__________________
'...
At poor peace I sing
To you strangers (though song
Is a burning and crested act,
The fire of birds in
The world's turning wood,
For my sawn, splay sounds,)
...'
Dylan Thomas, Author's Prologue
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  #642  
Old Apr 02, 2015, 09:02 PM
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Crescent Moon Crescent Moon is offline
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Originally Posted by NowhereUSA View Post
While we don't know if it was THE side effect (since docs are super cautious with this one), the side effect I got had me at the "DO NOT TAKE IT EVER AGAIN" level because of where and how it happened. I can't risk it per my doctor.
I would guess it was indeed *the* side effect. A rash. Even though a lot of the time it's not *the* rash - if you get one while taking certain medications - and Lamictal is at the top of that list - then for the rest of your life one should never be put in your mouth. For sure. Stevens-Johnson Syndrome is nothing to scoff at.
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  #643  
Old Apr 02, 2015, 09:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Crescent Moon View Post
I would guess it was indeed *the* side effect. A rash. Even though a lot of the time it's not *the* rash - if you get one while taking certain medications - and Lamictal is at the top of that list - then for the rest of your life one should never be put in your mouth. For sure. Stevens-Johnson Syndrome is nothing to scoff at.
The itching happened in my lady-bits. At first I thought maybe it was *me* (it was so bad I couldn't sleep). I stopped taking it though and it went away. I tried it again, just one pill, and the itching returned so I told my doc who was like "NO DO NOT TAKE."

:-/
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  #644  
Old Apr 02, 2015, 09:17 PM
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I would like to thank Google Images for giving me more fodder for my nightmares, followed closely by repeatedly kicking myself for my curious nature which led me to look up Stevens-Johnson Syndrome. Couch 91 - Forget the small change
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  #645  
Old Apr 02, 2015, 09:28 PM
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Originally Posted by NowhereUSA View Post
The itching happened in my lady-bits. At first I thought maybe it was *me* (it was so bad I couldn't sleep). I stopped taking it though and it went away. I tried it again, just one pill, and the itching returned so I told my doc who was like "NO DO NOT TAKE."

:-/
That's an unusual place for it to show up - but Stevens-Johnson, although extremely rare, it is devastating. I had a patient - girl about 10, who had SJS the year before I saw her. Mom showed me pictures. She looked like her skin - pretty much everywhere - had burned and bubbled off. She had mostly healed, but her skin looked like it had been through fire.
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  #646  
Old Apr 02, 2015, 09:30 PM
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About western medicine: On occasion a t tried to convince me to go on AD's. One time I went on an SSRI for at most 4 days. I would never do that again. When I needed birth control I opted for barrier methods only. I use natural remedies for colds and the like, never stuff like Nyquil. I have a healthy skepticism of drugs and drug companies.

But. A big but. In 1992 I noticed big bruises on my legs and self-treated it with Vitamin C. A few days later I could hardly walk or think and if I hadn't gotten a very Western diagnosis and a very Western treatment called plasmapherisis I wouldn't be here being obnoxious today. Western medicine saved my @ss many times since. I now happily take pills every day that so far keep me healthy. I realize this is an exception but now I tell everyone that if something weird is happening to your body, do not delay in getting a western medicine diagnosis. Then you can decide what to do with it. This from someone who was totally into herbs and vitamins and acupuncture.

Mental health drugs I have no opinion about. Just not for me.
Thanks for this!
JustShakey
  #647  
Old Apr 02, 2015, 09:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StressedMess View Post
I would like to thank Google Images for giving me more fodder for my nightmares, followed closely by repeatedly kicking myself for my curious nature which led me to look up Stevens-Johnson Syndrome. Couch 91 - Forget the small change
Hah! That's funny. Yeah - SJS is not for the weak. Very rare - but awful awful. Since I'm in neurophysiology, anti-epileptic meds are part of my every-day conversation. And there are a few AED's, including Lamictal, that the name of the med is burned in our brains tied together with SJS.
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  #648  
Old Apr 02, 2015, 09:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ragsnfeathers View Post
About western medicine: On occasion a t tried to convince me to go on AD's. One time I went on an SSRI for at most 4 days. I would never do that again. When I needed birth control I opted for barrier methods only. I use natural remedies for colds and the like, never stuff like Nyquil. I have a healthy skepticism of drugs and drug companies.


But. A big but. In 1992 I noticed big bruises on my legs and self-treated it with Vitamin C. A few days later I could hardly walk or think and if I hadn't gotten a very Western diagnosis and a very Western treatment called plasmapherisis I wouldn't be here being obnoxious today. Western medicine saved my @ss many times since. I now happily take pills every day that so far keep me healthy. I realize this is an exception but now I tell everyone that if something weird is happening to your body, do not delay in getting a western medicine diagnosis. Then you can decide what to do with it. This from someone who was totally into herbs and vitamins and acupuncture.


Mental health drugs I have no opinion about. Just not for me.

Yup, same applies to drugs as applies to surgery - only take them if the benefits outweigh the risks. There is not a single pharmaceutical out there that is risk free, even the OTC stuff. But then again, the same can be said of most of not all natural remedies as well.
__________________
'...
At poor peace I sing
To you strangers (though song
Is a burning and crested act,
The fire of birds in
The world's turning wood,
For my sawn, splay sounds,)
...'
Dylan Thomas, Author's Prologue
  #649  
Old Apr 02, 2015, 09:58 PM
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And *get diagnosed* if you body gets weird.
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  #650  
Old Apr 02, 2015, 09:58 PM
Anonymous37844
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Just because i havent posted a music vid in a while
Albert hannond Down bt the river
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