[IndestructibleGirl]

I can't maintain willpower or self control or whatever it is that's needed to stop emailing my old therapist. It happens about once a week.

The rest of life is ok and good (I mean I still have lots of stuff to sort out, in terms of getting where I want to be, but I'm handling it all fine - being patient with myself and reaching out to friends when I have bad anxiety) but she is still in my head. I get massively overwhelmed with love for her and bewilderment and hurt and a sense of it being all wrong that she is as good as a stranger to me now, and send a text or email.

What do I do?

I don't have another therapist to examine this with. I will probably have one in July, but I don't want to keep going like this until then.

[BlessedRhiannon]

Remove her email and phone number from your phone/email address books?
Type up drafts, but then let them sit for 24 hours before sending? and after 24 hours, delete instead of sending.
Come post here when you feel the urge to email?

[IndestructibleGirl]

Originally Posted by BlessedRhiannon

Remove her email and phone number from your phone/email address books?
Type up drafts, but then let them sit for 24 hours before sending? and after 24 hours, delete instead of sending.
Come post here when you feel the urge to email?

Even if I could bring myself to delete her, I could just google her contact details anytime.

Typing up drafts I've tried, and I end up sending them the next day. I can hold fire on sending if I tell myself well delay it and think it through, but then I keep thinking about it and wind up sending anyway. At least if I type and send, then I quit having the urge for a while, it gives some relief, because I feel like I've got it off my chest.

I do post here at times and it's great. Thank god for pc and you all.

How does she respond? I too understand the draw of the former therapist. I still feel love for T1 and think about contacting him often. Luckily I have another T to process this with, and I am discovering that beneath the love lies resentment and anger, much of it displaced. I know you have some underlying less positive emotions towards your T too and it's very emotionally confusing. A new T will be invaluable for you. In the meantime please try to remember the pain she caused you before you hit send

[IndestructibleGirl]

Originally Posted by Echos Myron

How does she respond? I too understand the draw of the former therapist. I still feel love for T1 and think about contacting him often. Luckily I have another T to process this with, and I am discovering that beneath the love lies resentment and anger, much of it displaced. I know you have some underlying less positive emotions towards your T too and it's very emotionally confusing. A new T will be invaluable for you. In the meantime please try to remember the pain she caused you before you hit send

I'm glad it's working for you, processing this stuff with your new T. I am really keen to do that, about 50% of the time - the rest of the time I feel a bit cynical and also confused. It will be DBT I start in the summer, and it appeals partly because of the seminar style approach - I'm good at that sort of thing, and won't have to push myself uncomfortably. There won't be a really intense focus on attachment.

I remember very clearly the pain she caused me - that always features in the emails too. I want answers, which I understand I won't ever get, but I feel driven to keep asking the questions anyway.

I don't want her to be my therapist again. I don't think. I don't even know in what way I miss her, but it's like a terrible ache at times. I keep looking back and trying to assess whether I imagined it all, but I don't think I did. It was like having amazing chemistry with her, but no overt sexual attraction - but maybe I repressed that part.

I can relate so strongly to everything you say, particularly about the chemistry. I never would have admitted that the chemistry was due to transference, because it felt so very real, but my eyes are starting to be opened to how much of it was maternal transference due to my mother's death (yeah, weird right? Male T and ET to boot) He mishandled it, and I'm having to let that go.
I know your T hurt you much worse than mine did. Are you still planning to report her? (sorry if I've missed a thread I haven't been on here much)
I think you have to know inside yourself that contacting her is harming you and care enough to change it before you can stop. I really hope you do, because you really do deserve better.

[IndestructibleGirl]

Originally Posted by Echos Myron

I can relate so strongly to everything you say, particularly about the chemistry. I never would have admitted that the chemistry was due to transference, because it felt so very real, but my eyes are starting to be opened to how much of it was maternal transference due to my mother's death (yeah, weird right? Male T and ET to boot) He mishandled it, and I'm having to let that go.
I know your T hurt you much worse than mine did. Are you still planning to report her? (sorry if I've missed a thread I haven't been on here much)
I think you have to know inside yourself that contacting her is harming you and care enough to change it before you can stop. I really hope you do, because you really do deserve better.

God, I've been knocking around PC for a while now and I am still none the wiser at being able to differentiate between transference and 'real' feelings. I'm sure there is some of it that is transference, but it sure doesn't seem like it's the whole story.

I can't let go, because she said we could be in each other's lives for always. I wish I could move on and forget her, but I can't - and not contacting her feels like it's harming me too

[Fuzzybear]

Originally Posted by IndestructibleGirl

God, I've been knocking around PC for a while now and I am still none the wiser at being able to differentiate between transference and 'real' feelings. I'm sure there is some of it that is transference, but it sure doesn't seem like it's the whole story.

Well, transference feelings are real feelings of course! They just have their origins in something deeper from the client's past, which adds to the intensity.
Have you tried the "dear t" thread on this site? I still post to T1 on there and it acts as a good substitute for me.

[PinkFlamingo99]

I'm not sure I purely believe in transference in a Freudian sense... I do agree that they are real feelings but the way we handle relationships are often deeper and lifelong patterns. Hugs, I know how hard this can be. Does she answer your emails?

[IndestructibleGirl]

Originally Posted by Echos Myron

Well, transference feelings are real feelings of course! They just have their origins in something deeper from the client's past, which adds to the intensity.
Have you tried the "dear t" thread on this site? I still post to T1 on there and it acts as a good substitute for me.

Yes, I know they're real feelings, but surely there is resonance with nearly all emotional situations once we get past a certain point in life - because we've been through the same sh#t before - even if it's not transference in the strictest sense of the word? I mean, sometimes when I get pangs about this therapist it feels linked to the intensity with which she said she would never leave, which was her kind of fulfilling a maternal gap - and yeah I can see how that triggers a longing that's rolled up in transference. But also it reminds me of a romantic break up in terms of feelings. And I saw so much of her vulnerability, due to her inability to keep her stuff out of my therapy, that sometimes I have dreadful feelings of devastation that I can't protect her, and look after her, knowing she's out in the world and somebody else gets to do that.. I don't think that is transference.

Originally Posted by PinkFlamingo99

I'm not sure I purely believe in transference in a Freudian sense... I do agree that they are real feelings but the way we handle relationships are often deeper and lifelong patterns. Hugs, I know how hard this can be. Does she answer your emails?

Sometimes, yes. One or two lines sending love. That I can read as genuine or banal lip service - that doesn't upset me, but I really don't know how they are meant.

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by IndestructibleGirl

but also it reminds me of a romantic break up in terms of feelings. And I saw so much of her vulnerability, due to her inability to keep her stuff out of my therapy, that sometimes I have dreadful feelings of devastation that I can't protect her, and look after her, knowing she's out in the world and somebody else gets to do that.. I don't think that is transference.

Wow i would have said that is totally transference. Thats how i felt about my exes. And some of my ts. As a parentified child. But i really needed that for myself, someone to be in my corner.

It is an extroadinarily complex thing, and i hope you don't think the suggestion of a transference element in any way diminishes those feelings. I think that's why when the feelings are causing this amount of hurt it is so important to explore them in therapy. For me it helps to defuse them in their intensity. (Sometimes )

[IndestructibleGirl]

Originally Posted by hankster

Wow i would have said that is totally transference. Thats how i felt about my exes. And some of my ts. As a parentified child. But i really needed that for myself, someone to be in my corner.

I think my grasp of transference is still not quite as clear as I would like, and there is definitely some transference in there. However, in my case, the romantic connection bit does not feel like transference at all. It feels like the first time I've loved someone as an equal adult, without a significant child bit of me getting in the way.

Although, now I'm getting more muddled. Maybe all the time I was listening to her riff on about her chaotic past and current illnesses and knowing in a way that something was odd about that - maybe that was me embracing the 'parentified child' role a little? I don't know. But I didn't want any kind of inequality with her, that's why I would never want her to be my therapist again. The kind of relationship I wanted/ want (not even sure what tense to use, because my own head doesn't even know) is an adult relationship, where both people give and both take. Not the therapy umbilical cord situation.

Originally Posted by Echos Myron

It is an extroadinarily complex thing, and i hope you don't think the suggestion of a transference element in any way diminishes those feelings. I think that's why when the feelings are causing this amount of hurt it is so important to explore them in therapy. For me it helps to defuse them in their intensity. (Sometimes )

Oh goodness no! I didn't think that at all. I just get very frustrated when I start trying to define transference when it's not the overt kind, because my thinking goes in circles and I get completely lost.

[LonesomeTonight]

I think it can be very hard to figure out what's transference vs. what's non-transference feelings for a T. I have both some paternal and some erotic transference for my marriage counselor, which I shared with him about a month ago during an individual session scheduled for that purpose. I had assumed we could meet again for an individual session in order to continue talking about it (didn't think it was a one and done conversation), and when he seemed reluctant to do that, it just...crushed me. I mean, I acted fine in there, but I completely melted down when I got out of the office. It felt like I was being stabbed in the heart. Left him a sobbing, rambling voicemail, and we talked briefly about it on the phone the next day, then later in an individual session that he offered me.

He was trying to figure out, from all that I said in my message (I went on for like 5 minutes or something), what parts were more the attraction/erotic/romantic and what was more paternal, I think in the hopes of helping me understand why I had such an intense reaction. After discussing with him (and thinking about it), I think I realized that it was the transference element that was causing me such an intense reaction. Like, it wasn't just about *him*, it was also stuff from my past, like my childhood, past romantic relationships, etc. So really, transference can be *more* intense than what you might consider to be "real" feelings.

[iheartjacques]

Ask her to block your emails or phone calls if she hasn't already? So you know you're calling a dead end. I used to email my mother after she died.
Can you write your letters to her in a journal? Are you looking for a response? I hope she is not replying.

[feralkittymom]

IG, I just saw this post. It takes time and I don't think emotions care about the clock. But could you set up a dummy account and send the texts there? I do think there's something about hitting "send" that works on an emotional level, that just writing and putting in a file doesn't do.

As far as transference, I think it can be a case of a difference without a distinction. All relational feelings include some element of transference. For me, it is the intensity exceeding the situation that indicates an imbalance, not a realness or not realness of the feelings themselves. Transference that's problematic seems to take away our sense of autonomy--we can't choose to alter the feelings, even if they cause us distress or bad consequences. "Love is blind" can be interpreted to mean an emotion that endures despite flaws; or it can be used to describe an intensity of love that is quite destructive and beyond our control. I think transference is much the same, but it doesn't dictate where on the continuum of "realness" it falls.

Certainly there was transference between my T and I. The aspects of it that temporarily gave it intensity--unbalance--were resolved. But there are certainly still benign aspects of transference in the relationship: he will always view me in some ways as an adult daughter, and I will always view him in some ways as a father. But those views are visible and within our control, rather than invisible and determining the intensity and direction of the relationship.

is she replying?

[IndestructibleGirl]

She does reply. A short line or so sending love. She hadn't replied to the last two, from the last couple weeks, but she wrote a note today to say she had been sick for a while and would read them tomorrow. I was so afraid to even open that email. I was waiting to meet a client when it came in, and had to put it out of my head until tonight when I got home.

When I heard she was sick, it still gave me a qualm. Why does that even happen? How can I still love this person, despite feeling completely f#cked over, and at times, coldly angry with her? I don't get it, I really don't.

[IndestructibleGirl]

Originally Posted by feralkittymom

IG, I just saw this post. It takes time and I don't think emotions care about the clock. But could you set up a dummy account and send the texts there? I do think there's something about hitting "send" that works on an emotional level, that just writing and putting in a file doesn't do.

As far as transference, I think it can be a case of a difference without a distinction. All relational feelings include some element of transference. For me, it is the intensity exceeding the situation that indicates an imbalance, not a realness or not realness of the feelings themselves. Transference that's problematic seems to take away our sense of autonomy--we can't choose to alter the feelings, even if they cause us distress or bad consequences. "Love is blind" can be interpreted to mean an emotion that endures despite flaws; or it can be used to describe an intensity of love that is quite destructive and beyond our control. I think transference is much the same, but it doesn't dictate where on the continuum of "realness" it falls.

Certainly there was transference between my T and I. The aspects of it that temporarily gave it intensity--unbalance--were resolved. But there are certainly still benign aspects of transference in the relationship: he will always view me in some ways as an adult daughter, and I will always view him in some ways as a father. But those views are visible and within our control, rather than invisible and determining the intensity and direction of the relationship.

FKM, I need to digest this There's a lot going on in it!

[NowhereUSA]

What I like about DBT is... emotions are emotions. I realized yesterday that I had negative transference for another T and it doesn't matter because regardless, I'm feeling the emotion and we need to work with the emotion to help move it towards fitting the facts of the situation.

But I'm sorry. I can't imagine what you're going through

[IndestructibleGirl]

Originally Posted by NowhereUSA

What I like about DBT is... emotions are emotions. I realized yesterday that I had negative transference for another T and it doesn't matter because regardless, I'm feeling the emotion and we need to work with the emotion to help move it towards fitting the facts of the situation.

But I'm sorry. I can't imagine what you're going through

Am I understanding right - you are trying to 'match up' your emotion to the situation, in a more adept way? How do you take steps towards this?

[NowhereUSA]

Originally Posted by IndestructibleGirl

Am I understanding right - you are trying to 'match up' your emotion to the situation, in a more adept way? How do you take steps towards this?

Oh how I love the emotion regulation section of DBT. It's one of the most helpful and one of the most difficult honestly.

There are several skills that DBT utilizes when there's an emotion that doesn't a) fit the facts or b) the intensity doesn't fit the facts. The goal isn't to suppress or deny the emotion it's to *actually change it* and part of that is learning what triggers it (there's this flow chart that's so amazing, I love it) and then picking the skill that most helps move towards that change. Opposite to emotion (and yes, they even have a section on how to act opposite to emotion for love). Problem solving. Building mastery.

Those are all DBT phrases. And I wish I could cram it into an easy statement or even a single post, but it's so friggin' comprehensive. That's why it's taught the way that it is in a group therapy + individual therapy format. You could google it and find more information though. You might find some of these skills super helpful before you start.

I'm a huge fan of DBT personally.

[Gavinandnikki]

Just don't start seeing her again, please.

[IndestructibleGirl]

Originally Posted by NowhereUSA

Oh how I love the emotion regulation section of DBT. It's one of the most helpful and one of the most difficult honestly.

There are several skills that DBT utilizes when there's an emotion that doesn't a) fit the facts or b) the intensity doesn't fit the facts. The goal isn't to suppress or deny the emotion it's to *actually change it* and part of that is learning what triggers it (there's this flow chart that's so amazing, I love it) and then picking the skill that most helps move towards that change. Opposite to emotion (and yes, they even have a section on how to act opposite to emotion for love). Problem solving. Building mastery.

Those are all DBT phrases. And I wish I could cram it into an easy statement or even a single post, but it's so friggin' comprehensive. That's why it's taught the way that it is in a group therapy + individual therapy format. You could google it and find more information though. You might find some of these skills super helpful before you start.

I'm a huge fan of DBT personally.

There's something I don't understand properly about this but can't articulate it tonight as very exhausted - will have to figure out my question tomorrow!

Originally Posted by Gavinandnikki

Just don't start seeing her again, please.

No, I won't. I don't want her as my therapist.