Should A Therapist Be Able To State Specifics?

I've not been precisely pleased with my foray into therapy. I've found it undirected, fairly wishywashy and mostly involving me rambling without a point.

I reached out to my therapist and asked what the therapist thought they could help me with in a concrete way. ie, what is it that the therapist thought therapy could do for me, specifically?

In response, I was told that therapy is confusing and often seemingly without point and it was understood that I was upset, but that the therapist would be there if I wanted to work through my issues. And that the therapist did not think that they could make any kind of specific statement as to how they could help me, but that over time, therapy would help as I became a more whole person.

Is this actually acceptable in therapy? To say that stating specifics isn't an option, but if the patient wants to keep spending money, the therapist is going to "be there"?

This is tasting more and more and more like a sideshow scam. The therapist doesn't have to provide any actual plan of service, or make any comment on what they're actually offering to help me, they can just 'be there' and that's worth hundreds of dollars a month? Seriously? I feel like I just got robbed.

I have never known any who could/would state specifics. Being ambiguous means you can't pin them down when it fails and they get to blame the client rather than themselves. It is not a practical way of solving problems. I finally quit using it for the reasons I sought it and found a different purpose that I am willing to pay for - but it is not what the therapist first said she could do (she couldn't) or anything practical or directed at why I went in the first place.

Mine was able to certainly more specific than "I'll be there for you." Perhaps it is his orientation, but he certainly had specific goals that we both felt would be helpful, and when and where possible, we set out some specific steps I needed to reach/learn/take in order to move down that road. He had pretty specific skills he helped me learn and explained to me why those steps would be helpful. We practiced and practiced until it finally started making sense and then I could finally really start internalizing those skills.

What i did was get some books from Amazon and on-line articles that are fairly technical, not pop psychology. First I found out the different types of therapy used these days, and then decided which seemed to talk about me. Then I asked T what kind of therapy he/she did. BTW I needed to do this before "Transference" set in, where I couldn't leave the T no matter what kind of therapy it was.

I lucked out to get a T who does the modern "psychodynamic relationship therapy", and then got books, or read on-line about that kind of therapy as it pertained to me. Also, the reading was interesting as long as it talked about me and my problems. I didn't keep reading when it got boring, as it wasn't about me then, or at my stage. Michael Balint "Basic Fault" was the best book I read.

Also want to say I appreciate your comments, both of you, Stopdog and Skyscrapermeow...and others on here. You've all helped me so very much, as I'm in deep therapy now where I've never been able to go before to resolve my inner child stuff.

Well, that's disheartening. I figured I would give the therapist one last chance to make a case for therapy, and all I got back was slippery talk which avoided the point. I would have thought, by now, therapy would be regulated enough that a therapist would have to have some evidence and confidence in being able to treat specific concerns. If this is genuinely how they operate, then I don't think this is a profession at all.

See now this makes some kind of sense. I think maybe, if I do continue with therapy, I'll find a new therapist capable of specifics.

Fortunately, I don't 'transfer' easily. And frankly, the shenanigans of not being able to say what on earth the therapy is for would kill any kind of transer instantly anyway. I have done a bit of reading online, but haven't found much of anything that adresses my particular concerns. It sort of leaves me feeling unhelpable.

I'm glad you're doing well though, that's awesome I'm always happy to see that some people get something out of it.

After different modalities and completely throwing myself into it I reached a sad conclusion. It was a sideshow scam for me.

I have certainly worked with T's willing (and maybe more eager than myself) to set specific goals with specific treatment plans. I would suggest finding a more goal-oriented therapist if that is what you are looking for. Generally, T's that work for community clinics are more goal-oriented out of necessity (their funding sources requireit). More behaviorally-oriented T's, or ones specializing in shorter-term therapy would also be ones to look at.
I'm actually somewhat the opposite. While I have set goals I want to accomplish (ex: processing my trauma to lessen flashbacks and other unwanted PTSD symptoms), I also generally am looking for support from my T around every-day stressors.
I think some T's fall into "go with the flow" for every client because it tends to be easier - you support the client with whatever they come to you that day. While it can be great for some, it can be pointless for others.
Keep looking if you still want help with whatever you sought therapy for, and ask in the first session how they can help you. Let them know you are looking for concrete, measurable progress with a set treatment plan.

I think "going with the flow" allows the therapist to make more money.

I think there are a lot of scam artist therapists out there. There might be a few good ones, few and far between though.

Imagine if your dentist decided to "go with the flow"

it's all about why you are in therapy. if you are seeking general every-day support around ambiguous life problems, "go with the flow" might be what you are looking for. If you go in with specific short-term goals, then certainly look for a T that will help with those goals...

If you ask a T about goals, and they give ambiguous answers that do not satisfy you, then look for another T.

If I'm going to a dentist for an annual check-up and expect everything to be fine, I'm good with "going with the flow", but if I went to a dentist for severe tooth pain, I'd want a clear treatment plan to meet my goal of getting rid of my tooth pain.

I think people forget that everyone goes to therapy with different goals and ideals. If you don't like the service you are getting (as with any paid service), find another provider.

Unfortunately, the equivalent of 'going with the flow' for a dentist, would be a dentist just sort of nodding at your teeth and then telling you that while he doesn't necessarily know how to fix anything about teeth, he does understand that you think they are sore, and he's very interested in the fact that they are sore, and maybe they're sore because when you were five someone gave you too much candy. And if you ask him if he knows how to fix sore teeth he says he can't tell you precisely how he could fix sore teeth, but if you just come back every week, he'll give it a good go.

And you're right, obviously if I don't like the service, I'm free to leave. But that's not the point, is it? I took on this service in good faith. I've sunk cold hard cash into it, and for what... nothing.

It does seem an awful lot though like this forum is dedicated to people who aren't getting any service. (Because the service being sold is intangible, and ephemeral and can in no way be stated directly.)

I don't think it's realistic to expect a T to state specifics. I mean, in psychology, there are no tangibles per se. You (general you) can't measure nor quantify 'identifiables' or the mechanics of what goes on in one's heads.

Then, again, it depends on what is meant by 'specifics': "When will I be better / see progress" etc. really can't be stated. But identifying steps to work towards a particular area could be stated (with alternatives, if need be).

It is also contingent on one's approach. CBT Ts work more in terms of structure and concrete goals but then again, progress can't really be measured or predicted. All clients aren't robots where you apply a formula (or technique), and they'd react mechanically. Individual differences come into play. Not to mention life's curveballs which can send us off on a spin.

A therapist should have some kind of idea of how to help someone who desires help. Most of them have no clue what they're doing though. Therapy has no "real" science behind it and it can't because people are so different and what might help someone might harm someone else.

I have this problem more with my psychiatrist than I did with the therapist. I went to therapy because my psychiatrist told me to. But I specifically asked him what he wanted me to work on in therapy, and all he told me is I have a tendency to intellectualize. Everything else "would come out" in therapy, he said.

Jeez, dude, be a little more unclear, could you? "There's stuff wrong with you, but I'm not gonna tell you what it is, just ambiguously allude to it."

I looked up intellectualizing and found it is one of the healthiest coping mechanisms. Why on earth would I want to change that?

So I went into therapy with the idea that "there's apparently something wrong with me, but I have no idea what, much less any idea whether I agree it's something that needs to change." Wasted hundreds of dollars because the guy wouldn't be straightforward with me.

There are no promises. For the bad therapist thiss serves to protect them when they can say you failed. For the better therapist they cannot promise you will get better as it is unethical and you will keep spending money with no guarantee. It's a murky situation. I think both you and the T could make some goals to work towards and specific ways the T can help with those goals.

Therapy is far less assured than dentistry. We hope for more and shouldn't accept less than. I'm a curveball to my T. The trained things to say don't help me at all. CBT doesn't work. Flexibility is key.

Yeah, yeah. Then - continuing the dentist metaphor - the dentist tells you to brush and floss everyday, and you give him an argument. Or you dont say anything. Or you didnt even show up for your appointment because surprise your teeth were hurting too much. Then who is to "blame"?

Lets just be fair and represent the client side accurately too?

You are assuming the client has not done their part as far as they could understand what their part is.
I do not understand the blame the client mentality. But I don't love Big Brother yet.

""They’ve got you too!" he cried.
"They got me a long time ago," said O’Brien with a mild, almost regretful irony."

"But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Brother."
Orwell

This implies that the therapist should be giving advice and telling us what to do? Many people here say they don't want that. What is therapy good for? What is supposed to happen there?

I don't get the "blame the client" mentality either. The therapist is the one who gets paid for whatever the client wants or needs, right? I don't know. LOL. It all seems like a bunch of crap to me.

I honestly don't know how I failed in therapy. I only missed a couple of appointments over seven years due to bad weather. I paid on time every time. I did what he asked. Read every book he suggested. Took medications he told me he wanted me to take or he wouldn't work with me. I did any homework he wanted me to do. I respected his boundaries and didn't call too much. I went into the hospital all of the times he suggested except the last time (because he said they did ECT there and they didn't. Liar.) Two things I wouldn't do were go to church and bring my husband to therapy. I think it was inappropriate of him to ask me to do those things, but what do I know. I'm just the dumb, failure of a client. Ugh. I hate this.

This also implies therapy is a medical science like dentistry. It isn't. It's pretty safe to follow your dentist's advice to brush and floss. It's also backed up by evidence that it helps prevent tooth decay. Replicatable scientific evidence, not theories.Do I have faith that my therapist always treats me in a manner that protects my safety? Sadly, no. If something she asks me to do feels unsafe to me now, I won't do it. And I think that's healthy. In the past I would have done it anyway.

What kind of t tells you to go to church? Why is that even on the table? Why is that even part of this discussion? Isnt that church stuff? Im not yelling (really im not!), I just dont mix church stuff and psychotherapy stuff. Now i cant tell if you are complaining about church stuff (if he was a minister type t) or psychology stuff. I dont want to defend psychotherapy against things the church said. That IS mixing apples and oranges.

As for ts giving you advice, they just tell you at the beginning to say whatever comes to mind. Everybody here edits. "Should i tell t this? Im not ready to tell t that. I dont think this other thing is important." I get that its hard to say stuff. But to pursue the dentist metaphor again, the more you open your mouth, the better the doc can help you.

If you are currently seeing your abuser (in my case my ancient mother), it makes it harder to see your t as being with you, not against you, imo. Its easier to argue with your t than with your abuser, but it ultimately doesnt change anything in your life. It just makes you feel a little better for a while, maybe. But youre just burning money. Your t doesnt need to change. They probably are not even like that - they are just reenacting your situation, trying to get you to look for other solutions. Or ask for their help - they are another set of eyes on the problem.

I just dont think all this complaining about ts helps. I would rather see posts about DOES work, not what doesnt. I wouldnt expect to see posts about like eating cookies on a weight loss website

There is TONS of science. Read a book. Google something.

Even the guy who runs this site admits they never know if they will be able to help a client or not.

And yet - when I post what works for me - I get questions about why I do it.
Plus - they don't even know what works - many of those people admit it - others lie.

Post away about what works for you - but don't blame the other clients when it does not work for them.

No - they have a lot of theories but they are not consistent and even they themselves call it an "art"

When someone says not to talk about the bad of therapy it feels like an abuser telling me not to talk about the abuse. Maybe that would be more helpful for abuse as well. Just shut up about it. Don't talk about it. Don't whine about it. Don't wallow in it. Don't deal with it. I guess that might work. Lots of people don't talk. Maybe it works for them. I don't know. I'm not even sure what "works" means anyway.