[Missunderstood321]

Hi all! I'm new here and I am very concerned about something, but it could be my anxiety... I won't go into details but as a black woman I face racism and it does make me feel bad. It hurts my feelings. When I try to talk about it with my therapist she blows it off as if I'm imagining it. She said " I know it's real for you." This bothers me that she can't acknowledge it as a problem for me. She just wants to blame my mom for everything. Yes, my mom is a problem but has nothing to do with the prejudice and hateful remarks I receive from others.

Should I try talk about it with her or just cancel my next appointment?

[Inner_Firefly]

Originally Posted by Missunderstood321

Hi all! I'm new here and I am very concerned about something, but it could be my anxiety... I won't go into details but as a black woman I face racism and it does make me feel bad. It hurts my feelings. When I try to talk about it with my therapist she blows it off as if I'm imagining it. She said " I know it's real for you." This bothers me that she can't acknowledge it as a problem for me. She just wants to blame my mom for everything. Yes, my mom is a problem but has nothing to do with the prejudice and hateful remarks I receive from others.

Should I try talk about it with her or just cancel my next appointment?

Hi, I am so sorry you feel hurt that your therapist is not acknowledging your concerns. I can imagine how disappointing and hurtful it is to not feel understood. It must be lonely to feel like even your therapist doesn't get you. How long have you seen her for? So far, do you feel like she's been a good listener/supportive overall? Does she listen when you tell her about the hateful remarks?

I am wondering, her comment "I know it's real for you", when she said that what was her tone of voice, was it critical or empathetic? Is it possible she meant that comment in a supportive way, as in "I understand how terrible and real racism is for you", or do you think she was invalidating your feelings, saying it's only real in your head.

I can imagine how hard this is. Sending you lots of good wishes and support...

[Argonautomobile]

There's nothing wrong with trying to talk it out with her, but my gut says this might not be the best fit. She may just not "get" it--there are a lot of otherwise well-meaning people out there who remain blissfully ignorant of subtle (and not-so-subtle) systems of oppression. A comment like "I know it's real for you" would seem to imply to me that she doesn't think it's real for her--or just doesn't think it's real period. A feminist-informed T or a person of color might be able to better empathize with this reality--and not steer things back to irrelevant mom territory.

Hope that helps. Good luck!

[growlycat]

I would definitely give concrete examples to your therapist. A longtime friend of mine is a black guy and I witnessed what he goes through first hand. (We recently attended a friend's wedding and stayed at the same hotel, he approached the concierge counter and a white guy practically jumped out of the way. My friend is one of the kindest people I know and witnessing this made an impression on me)

I think people want to believe it doesn't happen anymore but it does. Subtle racism is particularly cruel because you feel it, but others may not see it.

If your therapist continues to be dismissive, it may be time to find a new T.

[ruh roh]

I would find a new therapist. It's not your job to educate her about the realities of our society.

[ChipperMonkey]

Originally Posted by ruh roh

I would find a new therapist. It's not your job to educate her about the realities of our society.

Exactly.

You'll never be able to explain to a white woman what racism feels like. Her comments are condescending. I think it's a bad fit. I'd move on.

[ablankscript]

I once had a psychologist that would act as if all of the concerns and feelings in my mind were absolutely ridiculous therefore I shouldn't even be having them and she would have a good laugh. Of course I stopped going to her and found a great therapist that I feel like I get something out of with every session and look forward to seeing. There are a lot of good therapists out there and they don't have to be exactly like us to be good. Therapy is a business and you are the customer if you aren't happy fire them and find a new one.

[Favorite Jeans]

If Inner Firefly's suggestion rings true for you and you think it's possible/likely that she meant to say something empathic and validating (something like "I am aware that racism is a huge part of your life") but could have done a better job with her wording, maybe discuss it with her, see how you feel and give it some more time. Ditto if you find her on the whole very supportive and aware except for this one clumsy statement.

But if this seems to characterize her entire understanding of racism (like it's in your head, it's not such a big deal, she doesn't get what people are complaining about, she thinks people of color are acting like victims etc) then I think you'd better get out of there ASAP and find a better T. Racism can be very psychologically damaging (in addition to all the other ways it's damaging) and you need a T who really gets that.

It's really sad that your therapist doesn't understand how systemic racism is. It must be do frustrating for you that your T doesn't understand microaggressions.

[divine1966]

I saw a t before who didn't believe any problems of mine are real. I am glad the one I see now doesn't act this way. I suggest you stop seeing her and find a different one.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Restin]

If you haven't gotten too attached already to look for someone else, quit this T. She already isn't allowing you to have a problem you think you do. T should acknowledge your pain as you present it and help you talk and feel about it. Maybe she is just trying not to be racist and she thinks downplaying it is the way to show you that.
Explain to T that she isn't following you; and if she doesn't listen up, she needs more training and you don't have time to wait for it.

[spring2014]

hi misunderstood,
I think give your therapist another try . if she still does this to you look for another therapist . sounds like it to me that your therapist wasn't trained to be a diverse therapist who doesn't know something about empathy for her clients .







Diagnosis: Anxiety and depression
meds : Cymbalta 60 mgs at night
Vistrail 2 25 mgs daily for anxiety prn
50 mgs at night for insomnia with an additional 25 mgs=75 mgs when up past 1:00 in the morning

Originally Posted by Missunderstood321

Hi all! I'm new here and I am very concerned about something, but it could be my anxiety... I won't go into details but as a black woman I face racism and it does make me feel bad. It hurts my feelings. When I try to talk about it with my therapist she blows it off as if I'm imagining it. She said " I know it's real for you." This bothers me that she can't acknowledge it as a problem for me. She just wants to blame my mom for everything. Yes, my mom is a problem but has nothing to do with the prejudice and hateful remarks I receive from others.

Should I try talk about it with her or just cancel my next appointment?

In my humble opinion, sometimes a healthier upbringing helps one weather the blows that society inflicts upon its people. So, focusing on the original caregiver and what may have been missing in that part of ones life is important. I believe it it is primary in order to move our emotional health forward.

It doesn't mean the prejudice you experience should not be discussed. I disagree vehemently with the poster that says, "you will never be able to explain to a white women what racism feels like." To me that's a defeatist attitude.

[Sofya Semyonovna]

Originally Posted by Walkedthatroad

In my humble opinion, sometimes a healthier upbringing helps one weather the blows that society inflicts upon its people. So, focusing on the original caregiver and what may have been missing in that part of ones life is important. I believe it it is primary in order to move our emotional health forward.

It doesn't mean the prejudice you experience should not be discussed. I disagree vehemently with the poster that says, "you will never be able to explain to a white women what racism feels like." To me that's a defeatist attitude.

I disagree vehemently with your vehement disagreement. It seems arrogant to think a white person could ever fully understand the deep and cutting impact that racism has on people of color, having never lived those experiences ourselves. That’s similar to saying you understand the psychological impacts of war, having never been to war. Or you know what it feels like to be abused, despite never being abused.

Some white people will obviously be more empathetic than others, but I think it is an indisputable statement that no white person could ever fully understand what racism feels like. Because we’re not magicians or shapeshifters or omnipotent beings, so how could we possibly know what it feels like to experience something we haven’t experienced.

As a lesbian woman, anytime I’ve felt the need to discuss homophobia, I’ve chosen to only discuss it with my lesbian friends. Never my straight friends, not my bisexual friends, not even my gay male friends. Their experiences are different, so they can’t truly understand the ways that patriarchal homophobia impacts my life.

To the OP, if you feel you have a connection with this therapist and she helps you with other things, perhaps it’s beneficial to keep her around. Only you can say. Regardless, it sounds like your experiences with racism are a major problem in your life, understandably so, and at the very least you should try to find a therapist of color who you can discuss these specific issues with. I think it’s important to find a therapist that can truly empathize with, rather than invalidate, your experiences, and someone who has had similar experiences will be better equipped to provide that support.

But placing myself in your shoes, if a therapist ever said to me, “I believe homophobia feels real to you,” while implying it wasn’t actually real, I’d be out the door, never to return. There is no valid excuse for that level of ignorance. Experiencing discrimination is hard enough. Not being believed just makes it that much harder.

[divine1966]

Well if a white woman cannot understand racism then by this logic people can only understand what they experience first hand. That's ridiculous. What kind of life would that be? We'd only stick around people who are just like us. This is twisted logic. And generalization

I teach special Ed and I have a fiancée with disability but I don't have a disability so I can't understand my kids and their struggles and what my partner goes through? So must I have disability to be able to understand people with one? Really?

I have many non Jewish friends who very much understand what means to know that your great grandparents and all your grandparents' siblings perished in concentration camps. I never knew they must be Jewish to understand holocaust or anti-semitism.

I know many gays ( primarily my daughters friends but some through PFLAG). Neither I nor them ever thought I must be gay to comprehend their struggles!

If we believe the only people who can truly understand us are people just like us, then we are limiting our life and our experiences. I personally stand for diversity and do not support stereotyping and defeatist attitude.

This particular therapist might not be understanding, not that none can understand .

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Sofya Semyonovna]

Originally Posted by divine1966

Well if a white woman cannot understand racism then by this logic people can only understand what they experience first hand. That's ridiculous. What kind of life would that be? We'd only stick around people who are just like us. This is twisted logic. And generalization

I teach special Ed and I have a fiancée with disability but I don't have a disability so I can't understand my kids and their struggles and what my partner goes through? So must I have disability to be able to understand people with one? Really?

I have many non Jewish friends who very much understand what means to know that your great grandparents and all your grandparents' siblings perished in concentration camps. I never knew they must be Jewish to understand holocaust or anti-semitism.

I know many gays ( primarily my daughters friends but some through PFLAG). Neither I nor them ever thought I must be gay to comprehend their struggles!

If we believe the only people who can truly understand us are people just like us, then we are limiting our life and our experiences. I personally stand for diversity and do not support stereotyping and defeatist attitude.

This particular therapist might not be understanding, not that none can understand .

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I never said a white person couldn't empathize or understand racism. I said a white person could never fully understand racism. And of course I don't think we should surround ourselves with people who are exactly like us. But when discussing the systemic injustices we face, we will only find complete understanding from people who are victims of the same injustices. If the situation were a friend felt their friend weren't wholly empathetic to the racism they experience, I would not advocate dropping the friend.

However, this is a situation where the OP seems to be experiencing considerable psychological suffering on behalf of the discrimination she experiences. She consulted a professional in order to receive help and healing for this very serious issue. The individual she consulted is blinded by privilege and therefore will never be able to entirely identify with her. Therefore, the therapy will be ineffective and the OP will not heal. In a situation such as this, I think the only way for her to fully heal is to discuss the situation with someone who has firsthand experience with racism.

Privilege blinds people. That isn't stereotyping, anti-diversity, or defeatist. That is a well-documented sociological phenomenon that has been observed through the ages. My experiences with homophobia may be validated, but will never be fully understood by a heterosexual. Her experiences with racism may be validated, but will never be fully understood by a white person. Therefore, when discussing such issues, I think it's more productive to work through them with people who are victims of discrimination themselves.

Originally Posted by Sofya Semyonovna

I disagree vehemently with your vehement disagreement. It seems arrogant to think a white person could ever fully understand the deep and cutting impact that racism has on people of color, having never lived those experiences ourselves. That’s similar to saying you understand the psychological impacts of war, having never been to war. Or you know what it feels like to be abused, despite never being abused.

Some white people will obviously be more empathetic than others, but I think it is an indisputable statement that no white person could ever fully understand what racism feels like. Because we’re not magicians or shapeshifters or omnipotent beings, so how could we possibly know what it feels like to experience something we haven’t experienced.

As a lesbian woman, anytime I’ve felt the need to discuss homophobia, I’ve chosen to only discuss it with my lesbian friends. Never my straight friends, not my bisexual friends, not even my gay male friends. Their experiences are different, so they can’t truly understand the ways that patriarchal homophobia impacts my life.

To the OP, if you feel you have a connection with this therapist and she helps you with other things, perhaps it’s beneficial to keep her around. Only you can say. Regardless, it sounds like your experiences with racism are a major problem in your life, understandably so, and at the very least you should try to find a therapist of color who you can discuss these specific issues with. I think it’s important to find a therapist that can truly empathize with, rather than invalidate, your experiences, and someone who has had similar experiences will be better equipped to provide that support.


But placing myself in your shoes, if a therapist ever said to me, “I believe homophobia feels real to you,” while implying it wasn’t actually real, I’d be out the door, never to return. There is no valid excuse for that level of ignorance. Experiencing discrimination is hard enough. Not being believed just makes it that much harder.

Sofya Semyonova I would advice you not to go through life with blinders on. Please don't make assumptions about me, and what I have and have not experienced. You do not know me! I standby what I said in my original post.

[Sofya Semyonovna]

Originally Posted by Walkedthatroad

Sofya Semyonova I would advice you not to go through life with blinders on. Please don't make assumptions about me, and what I have and have not experienced. You do not know me! I standby what I said in my original post.

I'm not sure where in my post it seems that I made assumptions about you, but I didn't. Unless the assumption is that, if you're not a black person, you don't know what it feels like to be a black person. That is a general assumption I have about everyone, because again, unless the person is omnipotent, there is literally no possible way for them to know. And people aren't omnipotent.

[Favorite Jeans]

Whether white people can ever possibly begin to understand racism is a bit of a red herring. Few white truly care to even try and therein lies the problem. "I understand that racism feels real to you" screams "I'm not truly interested in learning about racism or understanding your experiences." (Assuming of course that she actually really meant to say that racism feels real but in fact isn't as real as all that and that this wasn't just a poorly phrased statement of empathy.)

WTR, you're right that one's early experiences can shape how resilient one becomes in the face of racism and other adversity. And sure building resilience is a very legitimate goal of therapy. But OMG basically gas lighting a patient by suggesting that racism is "real to them"??? That has NO PLACE in therapy or really anywhere else. It is unspeakably arrogant, ignorant and just plain mean.

Originally Posted by Favorite Jeans

Whether white people can ever possibly begin to understand racism is a bit of a red herring. Few white truly care to even try and therein lies the problem. "I understand that racism feels real to you" screams "I'm not truly interested in learning about racism or understanding your experiences." (Assuming of course that she actually really meant to say that racism feels real but in fact isn't as real as all that and that this wasn't just a poorly phrased statement of empathy.)

WTR, you're right that one's early experiences can shape how resilient one becomes in the face of racism and other adversity. And sure building resilience is a very legitimate goal of therapy. But OMG basically gas lighting a patient by suggesting that racism is "real to them"??? That has NO PLACE in therapy or really anywhere else. It is unspeakably arrogant, ignorant and just plain mean.

I've heard the statement more than once, and I just don't experience it the same way. And, we will just have to agree to disagree.

[divine1966]

Originally Posted by Favorite Jeans

Whether white people can ever possibly begin to understand racism is a bit of a red herring. Few white truly care to even try and therein lies the problem. "I understand that racism feels real to you" screams "I'm not truly interested in learning about racism or understanding your experiences." (Assuming of course that she actually really meant to say that racism feels real but in fact isn't as real as all that and that this wasn't just a poorly phrased statement of empathy.)

WTR, you're right that one's early experiences can shape how resilient one becomes in the face of racism and other adversity. And sure building resilience is a very legitimate goal of therapy. But OMG basically gas lighting a patient by suggesting that racism is "real to them"??? That has NO PLACE in therapy or really anywhere else. It is unspeakably arrogant, ignorant and just plain mean.

Saying that "few whites to even care to understand" is stereotyping and generalization and is quite offensive. How would that look if someone said " few blacks or Latino care to understand this or that". If you are talking about specific people you know then refer to specific people you know not to the entire race. That's offensive

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote by divine1966: "Saying that "few whites to even care to understand" is stereotyping and generalization and is quite offensive. How would that look if someone said " few blacks or Latino care to understand this or that". If you are talking about specific people you know then refer to specific people you know not to the entire race. That's offensive"


Good post. I appreciate it your speaking out.

Thank you,
wtr

[stopdog]

I admit I don't always understand some things about other cultures, or class differences, or religions or races etc. I am one of the ones who does not think it is absolutely possible to do so. I think straight people can be (or try to be) empathic to me but not understand what I mean about some things. I think I can be (or I try to be) empathic about somethings that I know I don't fully understand.
Perhaps re-reading the Prince and the Pauper or The Color Purple, or Invisible Man, or Bastard out of Carolina or Dispatches, or Sense and Sensibility or so on would help.

I also admit I don't understand every culture, every sex, every religion, or class difference. What I do know is that I cannot assume everything I read is posted by a particular subset, usually the majority, a white male, unless that person "outs" themselves as something "different". That's where and when I see racism, sexism, etc.

To the OP, to soothe the conscious of others I am now outing myself, and speaking to you as a BLACK WOMAN, A SiSTER, A NEGRO, and whatever the others choose to imagine me. I have been there, and I feel for you. But, I do recent others telling me that because I'm this or that my experience and my feelings about prejudice of my race have to toe some party line. I don't think it is necessary to have someone of the same color, sex, as a therapist. Certainly there are preference. You just have to find one that is attuned to you. Finding the right one can be a crap shoot.

stop dog: Experience of others and their experience, IN MY OPINION ONLY, CANNOT really come from just reading books. I suggest one FORCE themselves to expand their friendship circle, not just as acquaintances.

Respectfully,
wtr
An AfroLatino-American by way of Dutch, British West Indian decent, cisgender female)

And OP, sorry for hijacking your thread.

[stopdog]

I was more giving the books as an example of how different people see things from different perspectives. Not implying at all that books could be a complete substitute for other types of experience.