Psychotherapy inherently flawed?

Thanks re: grieving. It's a pretty dysfunctional way of coping but I don't have other options currently. And it forces me to clarify what I am thinking.

My therapist reacted more or less ok for a while. But there was nothing therapeutic happening. She was making me into an addict. And when I started acting like an addict, she freaked and wanted out. Glad yours is handling it ok, but I don't understand what the end-game is in such scenarios nor even what the hypothesis is. For me it is too much like russian roulette. I also think that once a client professes love or longing or attachment, the T is now potentially pursuing their own fix.

My T is definitely responsible. But I still think she is a victim of the system and the culture. Her training taught her to believe certain delusions about her powers to help and even transform people. Seeing me crash and burn caused her to face that. She did that briefly then covered it all up again so that she could carry on.

Your grieving doesn't seem dysfunctional to me, BudFox. You are learning and giving good information to others who might be helped by it while you are doing your grieving. You've brought up some excellent points in all your posts, and I am glad to have read the ones i have.

I used to think the world of therapy but am much, much more skeptical now after reading everything here about how people are harmed. I was also harmed myself by a therapist years ago, but for completely different reasons. All that i've read here has allowed me to take a more objective look at it, and think about all the faults. The industry can do much more to protect patients. There are many arguments of why/how this can't work, but there is no excuse for not providing more research and information about poor therapy. But it's much like the health care industry.

I do agree with ruh roh, that it's very much of a crap shoot, at least much of the time. But it wasn't all luck-I am extremely selective of therapists and have done hours and hours of research years ago when i started (to protect myself), but people shouldn't have to do that; not everyone can or has the resources anyway.

I just finished the book A Shining Affliction by Annie Rogers, and at the end she talks about how psychotherapy is flawed in many ways (and she's a therapist), and she talks about a lot of hte same stuff as you, BudFox. But, she managed to find a therapist who accepted all of her, and it really helped her be able to live her life more fully and sane. I would write it out, but it is a few pages worth.

For me, I don't see RL relationships much different that the therapy relationship, as far as what comes/came up in negotiating a beneficial relationship. Forums continuously speak about the inherent imbalance of therapy relationships. Granted that is so, but so is every relationship: from parent/child, teacher/student, boyfriend/girlfriend, friend/friend, brother/sister...

I have never entered into any relationship ever thinking this is or is going to be an equal relationship, including therapy. It's usually a gut feeling that tells me to push forward, hold back, or run for the hills with all relationships. Because of my own processing I usually ended RL relationships so they wouldn't tank or was never fully present. I hid myself from people. Sometimes it works; sometimes it doesn't.

People hold back lots of information, because of how it might be perceived, shame, etc. you only know what someone is willing to tell you...it could be filled with a lot of holes or lies. I know of another person only what they tell me or I find out from other sources. It's up to me to decide how much to trust, if at all.

My depending solely on a checks and balance system for therapist (supervision, personal therapy), or any other profession to protect me, before they protect themselves or protect their own, is far from prudent.

In my case, the issues that came do to transference were just a reenactment of many previous relationships gone awry. The difference is, I had a professional that could keep most of her crap out of the room, and she knew it was something extraordinary if it entered our space, and knew it was her responsibility to deal with it (reflection, research or other professionals), which could include our working on it together. Now, that I don't run from RL relationships, I do exactly what my therapist did with me...sometimes, that means ending the relationship, because it is not working for me, so I've got to move on.

I have a friendship with my ex therapist, and with all the crap she knows about me that could destroy me is just not a factor. First, she has to much integrity, and second, which is most important, I learned from one of the better ones in the profession; her, I can't be broken.

First, just let me say your comment IS NOT OVER THE TOP! You touched on some salient points that many here would like an answer to. I started walking thru the MH system most aggressively in 2011. My provider is the VA. Suffering from chronic insomnia brought on by depression/GAD my life looked dark and I planned to take my life. Fortunately SSDI was approved and my sister helped out until the payments began. I had worked using insight to try and remove the thoughts, feelings, regrets and lack of forgiveness that I 'assumed' were the root of the problem. I thought I succeeded but still had the same symptoms of depression. In fact they're worse. Even lost ten pounds without trying. Initially therapy was a godsend as I was able to voice my issues with someone without the fear of judgment. This lasted about 3.5 yrs. At that point I realized that the T was going by a 'template' they learn in college. In addition they were trying to set 'goals' for me. Both of these epiphanies disturbed me. They say do this or that or you should exercise and eat more healthy but I realized this wasn't me. When you're depressed changing habits after 50 years is no easy task. Add to that I have no hope for the future(I'm 59) it seemed useless to keep going on with the therapy. It also appeared that they were turning my thinking back on me(reverse psychology, I guess). My friend, I may be depressed and anxious but I refuse to let an over educated 30 something tell me how I should think. Like you I do not run around breaking the law, drinking, doing drugs or generally creating/adding more problems for myself. Those of us that suffer from depression/anxiety are more attuned to ourselves than anyone else including, a shrink or T. I have read many articles on this site that attest to my beliefs. I've learned to like what I am despite the depression and all it's negative connotations. You expressed indignation about how those that use, lie, deceive and are just plain obnoxious have lots of people around that 'care' about them. You are very observant. Then you are confused as to why folks like us have little if no support at all. I can't give a clear concise reason for this. My response to this attitude is isolation and withdrawal(my T wants to bring me out of this; fat chance). The 'world' doesn't like perceptive people like you. You see right through them. You won't tolerate pretense(neither will I). You are a sensitive person who can be easily manipulated or abused by others who only want to 'feel' good about themselves. I thought Christianity would benefit me but have never been able to get very far with it. It seems religion is like therapy. Do this or that and if you don't you're a failure or worse, going to hell. Both claim to have an answer but; do they? In closing; we live in a highly complex world. Many of us would like to be independent, work at what we like, live without someone criticizing our every thought or action. We are forced by modernity to interact with people that can be downright vicious, selfish, greedy, unreasonable and ignorant. You sound like a kind, moral, real and unpretensious person. Hang onto that. I don't have a solution so I just stay home avoid people as much as possible and enjoy what I have. You can always send me a message if you need to vent. Take care.

Yea sorry I know you were just reporting on your experience. I was making a general point and shouldn't have quoted your post. Makes sense what you say about the practitioner being held to higher standards. If I read or heard something specific and compelling from a therapist about how their particular method would help, and specifically how it would be applied, I might consider it. But I never do.

I've not done any analysis, just general talk therapies. I would like to try it just to see what it's like, but not sure I want to take the risk or spend the money.

Thanks ex vivo. And I agree with what you say.

Thanks, never heard of it, will look for it at used book stores.

The quote below was posted in another thread. It seems to me that if you replace the word "sexually" with the word "emotionally" the statement is just as relevant. And I wonder how many therapists would be willing to acknowledge that.

"I’ve seen too many patients badly damaged by therapists using them sexually. It’s always damaging to a patient. Therapists’ excuses are invariably patent and self-serving rationalizations..." -- Irvin Yalom

Isn't the core dynamic the same, on the same continuum? Where is the outrage over clients who are exploited or used emotionally?

I kinda think the core question is not whether therapy is fundamentally flawed, rather whether it is fundamentally abusive or exploitive for those with sufficient weakness, vulnerability, or desperation. A therapist doesn't have to commit some blatant "wrong", such as sexual misconduct, to damage or use the client.

Usually, for many people it is easier, yet still difficult, to move forward when it is words alone, and when it comes to even speaking on sex and nudity, these are such taboo subjects in our Western culture. I disagree that there is not a lot of outrage for emotional abuse, especially by a therapist...at least on this forum. My previous therapist was out raged for me. Separate from my experience, she had already commented on her being a cold, dead fish after reading one of her books.

My concern is always where does one go from here, my own bias, because I spent too many of my youthful years wallowing in pity, and pity is allowed, that one particular therapist ruined my life, and she specifically stopped me from healing — I was so very wrong.

Yes, I understand -- where does one go when one has been hurt by therapy? More therapy can be the only answer, and it has been for me somewhat. It's still a little questionable in that I still do not enjoy living.

Maybe there needs to be something like an employment agency or real estate broker to match therapists with clients?

That is a critical question. For me an essential aspect of digging out from destructive therapy and unburdening myself is speaking openly and honestly about it. And that includes taking the system apart, exposing its hypocrisies, condemning and crucifying it if need be. Even railing against hierarchy and authority in general. But every interaction I've had with the system required that I suppress my true feelings to some degree. And that ain't therapeutic. So more therapy seems like an exercise in futility.

Just have to say thanks I really agree with what you said .

I think I have experienced this 1st hand . And I feel that most of the progress I've made in this relationship has been when each of us are authentic . I don't think being genuine or authentic is a breech of ethical standards . When my therapist adopts a technique or a skill he has learned in graduate school it is so clearly an operation that it feels like we are acting out a formula with a prescribed solution and I feel like saying , oh , come on , you don't have to do this . Lets be real . But I don't and it's then that I feel like I want to play this game to protect his ego . All the while I'm thinking , oh he must be tired / had a bad day / or his last client is still on his mind and he can't be present right now . He must be stuck . For as much as we have talked about not being responsible for another persons feelings at that moment I want to give him an A for practicing what he was taught .

This gets to the root of my problem . I really like my therapist - for who he is -and I think he likes me . But we can't be friends . That wouldn't be therapy , right ? So maybe this is just how he reminds me of that fact . Now I'm stuck . Really . Can anyone see where I'm coming from ? Should I move on ? Have we reach the limit where he can be effective in treating me ? Help .