[rainbow8]

I haven't had a session like this in a long time. I cried all the way home in the car and felt like I wanted to die! I emailed T. I didn't try to stop myself because I felt so bad. Last week I didn't email at all so it's not like I can't do it.

I started to tell T my reasons for wanting and not wanting to see her bf's picture. She right away said she didn't think it was a good idea. I read from my journal, which was very brief, about my feelings. I started to read some questions I had and asked if she wanted to hear them. She said "no", and immediately asked me how my week was.

I froze. I couldn't talk, couldn't look at her. I was playing with play doh and I continued doing that, but otherwise I felt immobilized. She asked if I could make myself with the play doh. I made a small rolled up creature, but I felt dead. I think she talked about how it doesn't help to go "there" again, that our work together is about me. I couldn't concentrate on hearing that.

All too soon there was 5 minutes left and she wanted to know what we could do so I would feel better. I didn't know. I just said I hate sessions like these. I couldn't get much out of it. We walked out together but even that didn't help. I vaguely remember talking about something else in the beginning of the session. I asked her to try to remember what she told me about showing my work at a certain gallery. She doesn't remember and asked if I knew I was being a little mean about it. So we discussed being mean and where I got that from. Otherwise it was a terrible session.

She said nothing changed when I said we don't have a real relationship. She says she tells me some things, mostly about her, which is true. She volunteered that her bf looked like George Clooney. I wasn't sure what he looked like so I googled him in my car. He's good-looking. So, I'm jealous after all! I'm not sure why she told me that. It was really a crappy session!

I think my T could have been more sensitive and not rushed into "how was your week?" She said she was redirecting me. So I feel depressed and angry with her and me. I sabotaged my session!! I thought I was better. Therapy is not about T's life no matter how friendly she is. Oh, yes. She told me everyone has boundaries, even me.

I was busy helping a friend pack tonight but now I'm home alone and I feel like nothing matters. T asked in the session if it was my quicksand feeling. She knows me better than I know myself. I wish I didn't feel so devastated right now.

[Elio]

I am sorry you had such a rough session.

[Luce]

So, it sounds like it is time to pull out all the self care strategies you have to comfort yourself through these feelings.
Because, the reality is, you are not devastated. Your t wouldn't show you her boyfriend's picture. In terms of life trauma that is not devastating. I don't mean that in an invalidating way... I mean it in a reality checking way. the intensity of your triggered feelings is very real, and very painful. But the reality of the current moment is that you are safe. So what DBT / EMDR / grounding skills can you use to get yourself back to 'okay'?

[rainbow8]

Originally Posted by Luce

So, it sounds like it is time to pull out all the self care strategies you have to comfort yourself through these feelings.
Because, the reality is, you are not devastated. Your t wouldn't show you her boyfriend's picture. In terms of life trauma that is not devastating. I don't mean that in an invalidating way... I mean it in a reality checking way. the intensity of your triggered feelings is very real, and very painful. But the reality of the current moment is that you are safe. So what DBT / EMDR / grounding skills can you use to get yourself back to 'okay'?

Thank you, Luce.
I'm more hurt that she didn't want to discuss my feeling shut out. We've discussed it before. She immediately redirected me. Too abruptly. I know she's right but I think she handled it poorly.

I know there are skills to use. I know I'm not devastated. I'm depressed. I know the feelings will pass. I can read more of the mindfulness book T had me get, and meditate every day this week. I have yoga tomorrow which should help. I have friends. I want to forget about T but I can't. I also have chocolate in my house for self-soothing. I have to go to sleep now but I will probably cry. T is just trying to help me. I have to keep going and distract myself.

[Anthropologize]

First your therapist tells you to think about why you want to know about her boyfriend. You compliantly do so for a week. You even journal about it. You are behaving as directed (your therapist directly told you to think about your feelings to do with her partner, and your reasons for feeling that way.)

Then you show up to your session ready to talk about these feelings and your therapist immediately 'redirects' you. All the 'work' you have done is null and void. It's almost as if you had a child and told them to draw a picture, and then when they did you screwed it up and threw it in the bin and asked them where their math homework was. It's cruelty. It's subtle cruelty, I'll grant you that, but it's no less cruel for being subtle.

I've read enough of your posts to know you adore this woman and would keep seeing her likely no matter what she did, but these are not the actions of a competent or caring therapist.

You did not sabotage anything. She sabotaged you last week by telling you to think about a specific topic and then, when you tried to talk about that topic in the next session (which is the logical thing to do), she more or less shamed you and made you feel inappropriate, small, and rejected.

And, of course, she says her boyfriend 'looks like George Clooney' - which I very much doubt. She's not even holding the boundary she's set. First she wants you to think about your feelings to do with him, then she wants you not to talk about him at all, then she wants you to know that he's movie star hot. Uh. Okay. Seems to me that she likes feeding your feelings of inadequacy.

As I said, I know you love this woman, and this forum seems to have a large number of people who would rather blame themselves than a therapist. I strongly suspect, rainbow, that if you did go to the next session and actually talk only about yourself, refuse to talk about her, or your feelings about her, she would quickly draw you back to focusing on what she would call 'the therapeutic relationship.'

This is an endless manipulation that involves very little healing, but plenty of ego gratification on her part. There is 'push-pull' happening here, but it's on her end, not yours.

I couldn't agree more with Anthropologize. Why on earth did she ask you to think about it then shame you when you tried to tell her what your thoughts were?
Her telling you he looks like George Clooney is all kinds of wrong. As Anthropologize says, she's not even keeping to her own boundary which has to be confusing and painful for you. Secondly she knows you experience feelings of jealousy, and she is fueling that. Thirdly, the comparison is highly subjective and serves only to send your imagination wild. Showing you a picture would have been kinder than that. I find myself asking, what is she getting out of telling you that? It seems like mind games.
It really sounds like she's not handling her own stuff well here at all. As another poster said in a different thread, it is the client's job to test the boundaries and the therapist's job to contain them. If that doesn't happen, it is the fault of the therapist, not the client.
Be kind to yourself rainbow. Your therapist has displayed inconsistent and confusing boundaries, I know from experience just how painful that is.

[Waterbear]

Sounds to me like she is insecure about her bf. Not wanting to discuss it, show you a picture but tells you he is good looking, essentially. Maybe he isn't and she is embarrassed. Whatever it is this definitely sounds like her stuff and not yours. You see to think in many respects that she is a good T and has been good for you so maybe a slip up isn't all that bad. It isn't right but it might not be the end of the world, or of the relationship. I hope that she responds in a better manner than she did in your session.

[rainbow8]

Originally Posted by Anthropologize

First your therapist tells you to think about why you want to know about her boyfriend. You compliantly do so for a week. You even journal about it. You are behaving as directed (your therapist directly told you to think about your feelings to do with her partner, and your reasons for feeling that way.)

Then you show up to your session ready to talk about these feelings and your therapist immediately 'redirects' you. All the 'work' you have done is null and void. It's almost as if you had a child and told them to draw a picture, and then when they did you screwed it up and threw it in the bin and asked them where their math homework was. It's cruelty. It's subtle cruelty, I'll grant you that, but it's no less cruel for being subtle.

I've read enough of your posts to know you adore this woman and would keep seeing her likely no matter what she did, but these are not the actions of a competent or caring therapist.

You did not sabotage anything. She sabotaged you last week by telling you to think about a specific topic and then, when you tried to talk about that topic in the next session (which is the logical thing to do), she more or less shamed you and made you feel inappropriate, small, and rejected.

And, of course, she says her boyfriend 'looks like George Clooney' - which I very much doubt. She's not even holding the boundary she's set. First she wants you to think about your feelings to do with him, then she wants you not to talk about him at all, then she wants you to know that he's movie star hot. Uh. Okay. Seems to me that she likes feeding your feelings of inadequacy.

As I said, I know you love this woman, and this forum seems to have a large number of people who would rather blame themselves than a therapist. I strongly suspect, rainbow, that if you did go to the next session and actually talk only about yourself, refuse to talk about her, or your feelings about her, she would quickly draw you back to focusing on what she would call 'the therapeutic relationship.'

This is an endless manipulation that involves very little healing, but plenty of ego gratification on her part. There is 'push-pull' happening here, but it's on her end, not yours.

Thank you for your viewpoint. I never thought of it that way but it makes some sense. I was expecting to talk about it but T shut me up! So my reaction wasn't my fault but hers. I feel a little better if that's true, even partially. You're right. I won't see another T.

[rainbow8]

Originally Posted by Echos Myron

I couldn't agree more with Anthropologize. Why on earth did she ask you to think about it then shame you when you tried to tell her what your thoughts were?
Her telling you he looks like George Clooney is all kinds of wrong. As Anthropologize says, she's not even keeping to her own boundary which has to be confusing and painful for you. Secondly she knows you experience feelings of jealousy, and she is fueling that. Thirdly, the comparison is highly subjective and serves only to send your imagination wild. Showing you a picture would have been kinder than that. I find myself asking, what is she getting out of telling you that? It seems like mind games.
It really sounds like she's not handling her own stuff well here at all. As another poster said in a different thread, it is the client's job to test the boundaries and the therapist's job to contain them. If that doesn't happen, it is the fault of the therapist, not the client.
Be kind to yourself rainbow. Your therapist has displayed inconsistent and confusing boundaries, I know from experience just how painful that is.

Thank you, Echos. I didn't think of it as her shaming me, but perhaps that's what it was. I am always quick to blame myself so it's a new way of looking at it to realize my T may have messed up, not me! I do want to add that at the end of the session I said something about wondering if her bf was cute, and that's when she said the George Clooney bit. I don't know why she told me that. I guess she's not the perfect T after all, but she's good enough.

Ts are human and make mistakes, however it's important you are able to express your feelings within the relationship. I hope you do let your therapist know how it made you feel when she asked you to think about something then prevented you from sharing your thoughts. She is responsible for those actions, and I believe the mark of a good therapist is being able to reflect on their actions honestly and own their mistakes.
As you say, you are quick to blame yourself, but that shouldn't be a get out of jail free card for your therapist to avoid addressing mistakes. I hope she is able to challenge this pattern by realising she has not handled this well and owning that, rather than reinforcing the pattern by allowing you to blame yourself for sabotaging the session.

[rainbow8]

Originally Posted by Waterbear

Sounds to me like she is insecure about her bf. Not wanting to discuss it, show you a picture but tells you he is good looking, essentially. Maybe he isn't and she is embarrassed. Whatever it is this definitely sounds like her stuff and not yours. You see to think in many respects that she is a good T and has been good for you so maybe a slip up isn't all that bad. It isn't right but it might not be the end of the world, or of the relationship. I hope that she responds in a better manner than she did in your session.

Thank you, Waterbear. I don't think my T is insecure about her bf. She wants to keep his identity out of my therapy as it's not relevant to our work together, and that's her right. In my email I took responsibility for how the session went but I wrote how I felt frozen and incapable of speaking after she redirected me so abruptly. She will probably apologize but I don't think she will admit to have handled the situation wrong. She was trying to make the session productive instead of going over old tapes about wanting to be in her life.

For me what stands out as a mistake here is your T saying her bf looks like George Clooney. What was the purpose of that other than provoking you? Trying to redirect your attention might have had good intention in the background, maybe she just did not think about it carefully enough.

What I would probably do is tell her that it was confusing that on one occasion she asked you to think about your question in depth and then she did not want to discuss it. I would ask her straight why she turned down what she proposed herself earlier, and would not let her sneak out of answering. And I would tell her that throwing up the George Clooney thing was provocative and unnecessary.

Then maybe move on

[rainbow8]

Originally Posted by Xynesthesia

For me what stands out as a mistake here is your T saying her bf looks like George Clooney. What was the purpose of that other than provoking you? Trying to redirect your attention might have had good intention in the background, maybe she just did not think about it carefully enough.

What I would probably do is tell her that it was confusing that on one occasion she asked you to think about your question in depth and then she did not want to discuss it. I would ask her straight why she turned down what she proposed herself earlier, and would not let her sneak out of answering. And I would tell her that throwing up the George Clooney thing was provocative and unnecessary.

Then maybe move on

Thank you. I'd better clarify. T never told me to think IN DEPTH about why I wanted to see the photo. She did listen to my reasons before she asked how my week was. I don't think she expected me to be so triggered by changing the subject. Idk. The whole session gave me a bad feeling. I don't think T will own her part in it. It's probably best to move on or I will go round in circles with it forever. I'll see how she answers my email.

[atisketatasket]

Okay, going to swim against the tide here.

Rainbow's therapist has always struck me as very patient and kind - not perfect, but very high quality. The therapist and rainbow have moved past a lot of issues together about boundaries - Googling, house drive-bys, etc. - that the therapist wasn't keen on. They've negotiated about emails out of session. And yet the therapist has stuck by rainbow although rainbow often feared she wouldn't. The therapist actually remembered the day rainbow had surgery, and came to her house after her husband's death.

Rainbow, it was just a bad session, probably because boundaries are such a sensitive place for both of you. I've had at least one bad session with every therapist I've seen. I agree, move on, but it sounds like any mistakes made were unintentional. It's not even a session over which I would assign fault to either of you; you guys came in with two different visions of the session and your therapy, so maybe the thing to do is to sit down next time and get on the same page about what your next steps in therapy should be.

Just wanted to say that I am sorry it went badly and you are feeling so upset, Rainbow. I know you are working hard on this and try work is very painful. You are doing good work.

[ruh roh]

Hi Rainbow, I'm glad you know that your therapist didn't ask you to think deeply all week long about wanting to know about her boyfriend. And I don't see that she was being invalidating by bringing your session back to you. She's been pretty consistent throughout. I laughed about the George Clooney part because it made me think she's got her own transference issues, but it's good that she thinks he looks like a movie star and not, say, a bloated and aging politician. It wasn't the best thing for her to say that to you, but on balance, it's not a sign of bad therapy.

I agree with @@...chalk it up to a bad session. They feel like crap, but they happen. I have had them, and they don't feel survivable. But seeing that they are survivable, and stasis is restored, is helpful in and of itself.

I don't disagree that the therapist generally seems patient and seems to work well with rainbow. But I find it troubling that her boundaries have been quite confusing and contradictory (think about why/don't tell me why and I'm not going to talk about it/he looks like George Clooney). I don't feel comfortable with rainbow blaming herself for something she didn't do.
Atat has a great point that the two of you need to work together to get back on the same page. I think part of that must be developing a dialogue about what's happening and hopefully a responsiveness by your therapist to be open to accepting that she has upset you by contradicting herself. Sometimes bumps in the road can strengthen the relationship too.

[BayBrony]

Im a little confused.
Were the questions you were reading that she did not want to hear questions you'd journaled asking yourself why you wanted to know about T's BF. Like " i am asking myself if i want to know because i am still mourning my marriage"

Or were they questions about the BF, like "what does he look like"?

I wasn't sure from the OP and i guess to me my judgement of T's decisions is pretty dependant on what the questions actually were.

I would personally be fine with the whole shifting gears thing, actually I would be thankful if the T tried to move me out of my fixation. But the George Clooney thing... if it's a joke, I think it's cool but if not, just childish IMO.

It doesn't matter what I think but only what you think Rainbow because she is your therapist and it's your therapy. It sounds like a really painful session. I can see how you would feel shAmed and my senses is that your t would deliberately shame you but somewhere in your communication with each other there was a misattunement and a contact rupture.
Sounds as though you both had different agendas and were singing off a different hymsheet. There is no blame here only learning. I really hear the little rainbow who craves her ts attention and gets jealous of her boyfriend. It sounds like a very young place rainbow like how we get jealous of our parents relationship with each other. I think this is where your t gets misattuned sometimes because she talks with the adult part who then gets shamed for having these feelings but let me assure you that these feelings are perfectly normal, we are all curious about our ts and their private lives and that's when it gets confusing. They give us information and then they withdraw, I see this happening with my own t. They get confused with their relationship with us, they realise they have overshared and that it will feed into our transference and they withdraw. We get confused, hurt and shamed. It's a horrible process but there is learning in it for you and your t. She is human and will make mistakes but you work well with her and she " the good enough therapist" who will make mistakes and who will do the wrong thing but I don't believe it's on purpose or conscious. Your t is in a new relationship and a part of her is like an excited schoolgirl wanting to tell everyone but then gets scared of losing him.

[Anthropologize]

Some people think she's a good enough therapist. Apparently 'good enough' is 'telling your client your boyfriend looks like George Clooney'. I think that's setting the bar really very low indeed, but people get to decide what they put up with. As I've said, I'm shocked at the things people put up with on this forum simply because they can't imagine not seeing their therapists. Personally, no therapist is worth my self respect.

I think that when you tell her how that hurt you, she'll enjoy it. She already knows it hurt you. She saw it hurt you the moment she said it. And, more than that, I believe she said it to hurt you. It's fun for her. The same way she enjoys your feelings of inadequacy around weight, dress, artistic prowess. This therapist has a client who comes in week after week and pays to tell her how wonderful she is. That must be very gratifying for her. Someone thinks the world of her and no matter what she does, or how many barbs she throws their way (even a twelve year old girl knows that saying your boyfriend is super hot is a good way to make other girls jealous), keeps coming back, just begging for attention.

The alternative is to believe that your experienced therapist has less social awareness than a tween. She's either incompetent or malevolent, and I don't think either of those things is 'good enough'.

Some people seem unable to process that some therapists are narcissists who just love people who come to them wounded and ready to worship them. And of course, these narcissists have to pretend to be caring and loving and healing, because that's the way they hook the client. Once the client is hooked though, that's when the games begin. It makes total sense that the client would love the therapist. You can't abuse someone who doesn't love you! You have to make them love you first so they'll keep coming back to be poked and prodded.

If you think paying a woman to tell you that her boyfriend looks like George Clooney is healing for you, then that's all well and good. From a distance however, this looks like anything other than a therapeutic relationship. It looks like one of those high school mean girls relationships where the popular girl keeps a less attractive, less popular girl around for the sole purpose of bolstering her ego.

It's refreshing to read a post like this.

[Luce]

Originally Posted by Anthropologize

I think that when you tell her how that hurt you, she'll enjoy it. She already knows it hurt you. She saw it hurt you the moment she said it. And, more than that, I believe she said it to hurt you. It's fun for her. The same way she enjoys your feelings of inadequacy around weight, dress, artistic prowess. This therapist has a client who comes in week after week and pays to tell her how wonderful she is. That must be very gratifying for her. Someone thinks the world of her and no matter what she does, or how many barbs she throws their way (even a twelve year old girl knows that saying your boyfriend is super hot is a good way to make other girls jealous), keeps coming back, just begging for attention.

The alternative is to believe that your experienced therapist has less social awareness than a tween. She's either incompetent or malevolent, and I don't think either of those things is 'good enough'.

Some people seem unable to process that some therapists are narcissists who just love people who come to them wounded and ready to worship them. And of course, these narcissists have to pretend to be caring and loving and healing, because that's the way they hook the client. Once the client is hooked though, that's when the games begin. It makes total sense that the client would love the therapist. You can't abuse someone who doesn't love you! You have to make them love you first so they'll keep coming back to be poked and prodded.

If you think paying a woman to tell you that her boyfriend looks like George Clooney is healing for you, then that's all well and good. From a distance however, this looks like anything other than a therapeutic relationship. It looks like one of those high school mean girls relationships where the popular girl keeps a less attractive, less popular girl around for the sole purpose of bolstering her ego.

Sounds like there are a few things going on here that have much to do with Anthropologize and little to do with Rainbow and her T.

Originally Posted by Luce

Sounds like there are a few things going on here that have much to do with Anthropologize and little to do with Rainbow and her T.

Isn't it an open forum to share a variety of personal experiences and opinions?

[atisketatasket]

Originally Posted by Anthropologize

Some people think she's a good enough therapist. Apparently 'good enough' is 'telling your client your boyfriend looks like George Clooney'. I think that's setting the bar really very low indeed, but people get to decide what they put up with. As I've said, I'm shocked at the things people put up with on this forum simply because they can't imagine not seeing their therapists. Personally, no therapist is worth my self respect.

I think that when you tell her how that hurt you, she'll enjoy it. She already knows it hurt you. She saw it hurt you the moment she said it. And, more than that, I believe she said it to hurt you. It's fun for her. The same way she enjoys your feelings of inadequacy around weight, dress, artistic prowess. This therapist has a client who comes in week after week and pays to tell her how wonderful she is. That must be very gratifying for her. Someone thinks the world of her and no matter what she does, or how many barbs she throws their way (even a twelve year old girl knows that saying your boyfriend is super hot is a good way to make other girls jealous), keeps coming back, just begging for attention.

The alternative is to believe that your experienced therapist has less social awareness than a tween. She's either incompetent or malevolent, and I don't think either of those things is 'good enough'.

Some people seem unable to process that some therapists are narcissists who just love people who come to them wounded and ready to worship them. And of course, these narcissists have to pretend to be caring and loving and healing, because that's the way they hook the client. Once the client is hooked though, that's when the games begin. It makes total sense that the client would love the therapist. You can't abuse someone who doesn't love you! You have to make them love you first so they'll keep coming back to be poked and prodded.

If you think paying a woman to tell you that her boyfriend looks like George Clooney is healing for you, then that's all well and good. From a distance however, this looks like anything other than a therapeutic relationship. It looks like one of those high school mean girls relationships where the popular girl keeps a less attractive, less popular girl around for the sole purpose of bolstering her ego.

Anthropologize - you've been on this forum two months. Have you taken the time to go back and read the extensive number of threads and posts about rainbow and her therapist?

If you have, kudos...but if you had, it might not come down to George Clooney for you. Talk about a reductio ad absurdum.