"You should have said no more forcefully"

I'm so sorry. People in fear of their lives will do the things they do then to invalidate and blame them ?! He doesn't seem to get anything and he needs to learn from what's happened.

The only one benefiting from his type of therapy is himself!

To say this to you is akin to him sexually assaulting you all over again!

RUN AS FAR AWAY AND AS FAST AS YOU CAN FROM THIS @$$-HAT!

Do not let him continue to make you question the validity of your perceptions & reaction to what he's done!

Your Anger Is TOTALLY Justified!



Sincerely,
Pflower!



PS ... Feel Free To Copy This & Send It To Him! ... What A Complete & Total Jerk!

Huh? I suppose statistically that is true, but I would bet virtually all women at least know what it is like to be afraid of rape.

In my experience most men with women who are important in their lives - wives, mothers, girlfriends, partners, sisters, daughters - also know what it is like to fear for their safety.

And it is not like rape is not committed against men too. He could actually try to envision that happening to him.

It's time to end this relationship. I don't know what bubble he lives in, but many if not most women I know have at some point been threatened with sexual assault even if it hasn't escalated beyond threats. He needs to find a new line of work if he's going to hold on to the thought that what he said to you is remotely ok. This just disgusts me so much because he may never really get it, but it's his job to understand as much as possible without experiencing it.

Hmmm, I see pluses and minuses staying with this T and ultimately, you'll have to make that decision for yourself. Like other's have stated, it is not your job to show him the errors of his ways. Maybe it is time to be frank with him about it seems pretty clear that you guys are not matching up here, and does he have a supervisor he could take this to, preferably a female supervisor, to get another perspective as to why it is upsetting you (and inappropriate for him to have said what he said, just not sure if I'd say this part).

In my opinion he's dodging trying to turn his tone-deaf major error into therapy material from which you could "benefit.' He needs to learn why his comment and attitude was so dreadful, and it's not the client's job to educate him. And yes, even a male should understand sexual assault.

You're not overreacting. He effing victim blamed. Wow if I could, I'd go in there and chew him out.

Im glad that, in your experience, you found this kind of approach helpful. I do not in any way want to discount the value that you found in having a T use this kind of approach with you to heal from your trauma.

That said, in my (different) personal situation, when a T attempted to do this with me -- to talk about how I could have more agency-- regarding an assault I experienced a few weeks prior (when I was in my 30s) I found it invalidating, disgusting, and traumatizing. For me, the assault happened when I was a grown adult, I had already taken more than one self-defense class, i was trained in how to fight back if I experienced unwanted advances by the rape crisis center at the University where I teach, I routinely took numerous precautions to avoid placing myself in risky situations (never walk alone at night, always park in a lighted area, always carry mace, etc), I already knew countless ways of attempting to escape-- and when someone overpowered me and assaulted me none of them helped (and I had literally thought "if I'm ever attacked again, I will do X, Y, Z), and I could go on. There is literally not one thing I could have done differently to prevent the assault, or escape earlier-- and the suggestion that I could makes me so angry I cannot even put it into words. For me, suggesting that I could learn from this experience or plan what I could do differently in the future is the most sickening response I can fathom. In fact, it feels like someone is taking my agency away because they are not belieiving me when I tell them that I did nothing "wrong." The very suggestion that I could have acted differently-- or fought harder--or fight harder in the future-- implies that in fact I could have done something "better." And that simply isn't true. In hindsight, there is not a thing I could have done differently. i escaped with my life, and that is a testament to how prepared I was and how hard I fought. I had been attacked once previously at 16, and once at 31, and the additional fifiteen years and numerous self-defense classes made zero difference. I didn't freeze either time; I fought. But I was still overpowered (despite regularly lifting weights). The perpetrator who attacked me when I was 16-- I believe I am his only living victim-- so if someone tells me I should have done something differently, I can only imagine not surviving. So when my therapist asked me "how could you have acted differently to have more agency?"-- it's just the most tone deaf and insulting question I can imagine asking an assault victim.

I hear that and understand that. I was responding simply with a different view of the situation and a take on perhaps what he was attempting to get to. It doesn't speak to me of victim blaming as much as clumsiness of communication. I personally wouldn't discontinue seeing a therapist for that one sentence where I thought he had otherwise been very helpful to me. I realize our circumstances are different (we all come from different places here). The OP is, of course, completely justified for her feelings about his words and whatever she decides to do about it will come from her much better understanding of her own personal situation and the intracacies of that specific therapy dynamic.

It really comes down to what the OP feels about the situation. If this is a therapist who, as she initially stated, has never said or done something like this previously, who she has found otherwise helpful, otherwise very professional and supportive, then she will have to decide if she wants to work through this and continue working with him, or if this is something that is a deal breaker for her. None of us can do more than give our various perspectives.

In no way am I either discounting the OP's feelings or decisions about this. As I initially posted, I too had a situation where the words of a therapist came out grossly wrong, and I suspect some might have never gone back if they had been in my therapy situation in that moment either. I discovered it was possible to talk through that and move forward continuing to have effective therapy with that therapist despite what had happened. I am glad I was able to do so instead of ending what up until that moment had been a good therapy relationship because I found out that it was possible to work past it and to continue effective therapy. I shared my story not to justify his words (which some seem to take my post incorrectly as), but to share a perspective on the possibilty of getting beyond a bad situation and still being able to preserve what otherwise had been a good therapy relationship. The OP asked for thoughts or advice on whether it is possible to get past this kind of thing, and I shared my personal experience. My apologies if my communication of my personal experiencing was taken as offensive to others, but it is as valid as anyone's I thought. I will bow out of this thread as my words are somehow themslves being taken as victim blaming which, most people here know from my own story, would be the last thing I would do.

Lola grace, I found your posts very helpful and not in the slightest victim blaming. I'm really glad you shared your story. Like you say, it's not black and white after 18 months of good therapy. I'm going to take my time in making up my mind. Thank you for sharing.

I have learned that I tended to have a "fawn" response to situations that I have been in, in the past. This allowed people to take advantage of me. We have explored why I would become passive and how I could give myself greater safety in the future, by being more assertive (shouting "get off"). I have not perceived this as blaming me for what happened, but a way of giving me greater confidence in the future.

The difference to me is the emphasis on the future. (Although I am not sure shouting "get off" guarantees safety.). OP's therapist's comment was focused on the past. And yeah, that makes it blaming.

"You should have said no more forcefully."

He said he had been trying to get me to have more of a sense of agency.

He also said he would never know what it was like to be a woman being raped but that most women wouldn't either.

If you see him again, take his statements to show him that the issue is about his beliefs, not about the good work you are doing. From my perspective, your work is not about voicing anger over his so-called misstatements (he meant the things he said and continues to support them), you are angry about being invalidated. That's not therapy. That's revictimization.

He needs to see that he was wrong, apologize as many times as it takes, and get some training about SA.

Speaking out to him like that was very brave and bold of you. It sounds like he is urging you to keep seeing him because he doesnt want to lose a client and the income. I think you have gotten some great healing out of what happened here already. Maybe take a break from therapy, then find a new therapist, or don't go back to therapy at all.

Shouting 'get off me get off me' whilst fighting furiously kind of worked for me. Although the assault continued it was certainly less violent after that and most of the men gave up- it was just the leader (my T) who continued it.

There's a difference between blame and responsibility. Learning skills to enhance the ability to be self-responsible is fine. I learned skills to drive defensively to decrease my odds of getting into an accident. But all the defensive driving skills in the world are not a guarantee against a crazy driver. If I drive to the best of my ability, and get into an accident because of another person's irresponsible driving, I am the victim. To suggest that the scene could be rewritten to a different result only based upon changing my actions, is nonsensical. Changing my actions might improve the odds (or not), but it doesn't absolve the other party of responsibility.

An examination of adult behavior in any situation can be useful. But when such an approach is applied to past behavior, and the focus is on trying to hypothetically rewrite the past by "correcting" a victim's behavior, the emphasis has shifted from responsibility to blame. Nothing valuable comes of blame.

It's not clear to me that your T recognizes the difference, and he's shown that if he does, he doesn't have the clinical skills necessary to apply the concept in practice. I don't know if he can get there, but the issue is whether you think it would help you to continue with him through this "learning curve."

That sounds shockingly ignorant and insensitive.

I cant help thinking about how therapists are encouraged to withhold judgement. It's easy to conflate this with lack of judgement, and then something slips out. How are you supposed to work with that? Is it an anomaly or is there more?

Yes. And every crime and crisis is different. One is dealing with a violent, irrational assailant. The effective response in one scenario might be exactly wrong in a different one. It's not a movie. No one can second guess a different outcome from instant replay. Survival--means the correct choice was made.

Duckling, I'm sorry you have to deal with this guy's ignorance. It's solely his responsibility have training and supervision to help you.

I guess I agree with OlivaB. I have CSA issues and my male therapist sometimes does or says things that create issues between us, either because he's just screwed up or because I've misinterpreted him due to my own issues. In general, it has been helpful for me--not what he said, or my getting angry, but the hashing out process between us as we struggle to communicate and reconnect. Therapists make mistakes --this seems to me to be almost inevitable-- and to me what matters is how they handle the mistakes going forward.

Only you can know if your therapist is basically an empathetic, understanding person who inexplicably said something stupid and deeply regrets it and is trying to repair the connection or if he is an idiot and truly secretly blames you for an assault that could not be your fault. Didn't you say you've been seeing him for 18 months? Is he generally reliable and trustworthy? Is what he said out of character for him?

The "most important work" thing he said is striking. This may be the first real rupture you've had. Ruptures, and their repair, offer the opportunity for real personal change and growth (for both parties in the relationship), but it can be excruciating, and sometimes the therapeutic relationship doesn't make it. Whatever you ultimately decide, if you do decide to ditch him, I hope you can end things with him in a way that honors the work you've done so far and what you have shared together up until this point. I am sorry this is so hard and I'm sorry for what he said, and for what happened to you.