"You should have said no more forcefully"

The saying, "when someone shows you who they are, believe them" comes to mind. I doubt he had any ill intent behind what he said, but nor does it sound like simple misspeaking or carelessness. What it sounds like to me is an unconscious attitude, similar to unconscious racism, that he has a major responsibility to explore and deal with in supervision. Given this, I don't see how I could feel the level of trust needed to heal with this T. But I would certainly try to not feel guilty in any way and use the interaction to get out my anger--and then seek healing with someone else.

I had a T say the exact same thing to me last year. My wonderful T had retired and I was trying out a new T. I told her about how I was assaulted, and she asked me if I had "sent any signals" that I wanted it and asked how I tried to resist (I said no, I fought back, etc). The T STILL asked me if I could have "done anything differently" to stop the assault because she wanted me to "have more agency" in the situation. I told her that she was seriously out of line, left, and never came back. Being treated that way was almost like being assaulted a second time. Someone who would even think to say anything like that fundamentally does not understand the concept of sexual assault.

Not to sound completely uneducated, what is this "more agency" concept and how does it pertain to an assault?

That's an awful thing to say particularly from a T. He does sound like he has an unconscious attitude. Healing does come from anger and I hope you may find this part of your healing though it may not feel that way at the moment.

To even let that "slip out" shows his true colours. Believe he is not good and get out. I'm sorry.

it makes me think of this quote from The Fall

""Men always think in terms of fight or flight," said Stella. "In fact, the most common instinct in the face of this kind of threat is to freeze. If she didn't fight, if she didn't scream, if she was silent and numb, it's because she was petrified.

"In that state of fear she might well have been compliant. She might well have submitted. But that does not mean she consented."

Whether you said no loudly or forcefully enough has no bearing on what someone else did to you, the responsibility does not lie with you saying no in the perfect way, you could not have prevented this by saying the perfect thing and to believe you could is just gross.

I would find a new T. I would feel uncomfortable if a T spoke, reacted that way.

Nobody deserves sexual assault and you are not at fault. The fault lies with the offender.

That is NOT okay for him to say! When I disclosed a similar incident to my T, she made it clear that only a strong "yes" and while sober is consent. Saying no or not saying anything at all is not consent. I'm sorry that your T was so callous about it.

That is totally not ok. I want to put that in all caps because I am furious at your t. What utter nonsense. And isn't it therapy 101 that you never blame the victim? I would seriously consider taking legal action. Report him to wherever you can, check with an attorney. There is just no way that saying that for any reason at all is ok. Unbelievable. And I agree-his explanation only makes it worse.

I am so sorry that happened.

I like the suggestion that you ask him if he wants to be punched, punch him and tell him he needs to say no more forcefully. In fact, I'd like to be the one to do that.

Thanks so much everyone. I emailed him saying I wanted to take a break and that I didn't trust myself not to lose my temper.

He replied saying he understands that I'm very angry, and that it's really important to keep seeing each other, it's the most important work we've done so far...

Elio and Yellowbuggy, I'm tempted to think, like you, that maybe I should just use the next session to get in touch with the anger and not feel guilty like I normally would.

But all your responses make me feel very validated in feeling angry - thank you so much.

I also wanted to say thank you for your comment feralkittymom - you put into words something that was disturbing me, but I couldn't put my finger on. Everyone misspeaks sometimes, but the reason his explanation made it worse was because it suggested that deep down he does have some kind of unconscious bias. Thank you for helping me to articulate that unease.

I like his email response to you, encouraging you to go back. If you ended now it would surely be a painful ending, and the pain from painful endings can stay with us for a long time and destructive. Maybe expressing anger to him about his words can help you to express anger about what happened. And discussing why it's not a question of agency might be helpful too. If you want to end it, it might be helpful in the long term if you at least have a few more sessions with him.

I'm cautious about writing this, because I don't want any of it to sounds like I'm defending your T or not supporting you. I am FURIOUS on your behalf, and think you have every right to be angry, feel betrayed, and never see this man again.

But then I thought of my own T, who I have been seeing for 18 months, and all we've been through. And what if he said something like this to me? And I couldn't just walk away, because we have such a history and he has been so wonderful in so many ways. Which isn't to say he hasn't also completely f***ed up. We had one session that was so awful, I wasn't sure we could recover from it--I felt betrayed and judged and heartbroken. In this session, he made a comment that made me realize he had weight bias.

I was so angry and hurt, I lashed out at him, then I retreated, wanted to quit, stop talking about it, and he wouldn't let me--said it would ruin our relationship if we didn't sort through it, so we did (and we still talk about it now and again). He said I made a lot of assumptions about him and what he was thinking/feeling/believing based on that one comment (which I did), but he also admitted that he probably has unconscious weight bias--that it's hard not to if you live in our society--and he promised to check his bias. He spent an entire weekend reading up on it. He acknowledged that he has privilege (all kinds) and that he has a responsibility to try to dismantle that. He acknowledged that, as a man, he will never fully understand what it's like to have your body objectified like women do, and he asked me to help him understand.

My point here is that your T made a grave error, and that grave error probably stems from some deep-seated, unconscious bias on his part. This is societal bias that I think most people (men and women, but especially men) have internalized. And as a T, he should have done his own work and be better able to think before he speaks, but excavating this kind of bias is not a one-and-done kind of thing because more seeps in. And our Ts are human--they do make mistakes.

If he's willing to accept your anger, to agree that it is justified, to be horrified at his comment, to look deep inside and challenge his bias, to admit to his privilege, to DO HIS OWN WORK, I think this could be salvageable and that your relationship could grow from it. It's not your job to help him grow--your job is to work on your own stuff and get the support you need to do so--but if you have an otherwise solid relationship, you could potentially work through this.

My own background includes an eating disorder, CSA, intense body shame, obesity, and I worked with a handful of women therapists and though I made some progress, I didn't make a lot. Though I felt safer with these women, felt like they could understand better what I'd been through, I also never got to the root of the issues. Working with a man (and he's not a soft man--he's a testosteroney man) has helped me so much more than any of my other therapists, not in spite of his being a man, but because of it. He has triggered me inadvertently, has stirred up my shame, I have been unable to hide with him the way I could other therapists, but then we work through it, and it's been incredibly healing (although hard work).

That may not be the case for you, or with this particular therapist, but I do think it's worth seeing him again and telling him how this made you feel, no holds barred, if you feel safe enough to do that and if there is still some semblance of underlying trust. If he doesn't own 100% his stuff, and listen very hard to what you are saying, and try to understand, then I would definitely walk.

To me it sounds like he knows nothing about sexual assault. If you say no and someone proceeds they have just shown you that the social contract means nothing to them. As the person being assaulted you are coping with a terrifying realization that you are dealing with someone who has no respect for you and no qualms about harming you. You have no idea what someone so lacking in empathy might be capable of. It is completely rational to do whatever you think will de-escalate the situation and leave with your life.

Your psychiatrist doesn't know that. Which is a much deeper problem than a misspoken word. I would not got back.

Is your therapist a member of the BACP? If so, you do have grounds for complaint. Here are the ethical principles BACP registered therapists must uphold:

Being trustworthy: honouring the trust placed in the practitioner.
Autonomy: respect for the client’s right to be self-governing.
Beneficence: a commitment to promoting the client’s wellbeing.
Non-maleficence: a commitment to avoiding harm to the client.
Justice: the fair and impartial treatment of all clients and the
provision of adequate services.
Self-respect: fostering the practitioner’s self-knowledge, integrity and
care for self.

It seems to me he has broken 'being trustworthy', 'autonomy' (by trying to convince you to keep working with him), 'benificence', 'non-malificence' and 'self-respect' (by not having adequate training in this area). It's pretty bad. And i don't think he knows it fully because he continues to breach his responsibility to value your autonomy in deciding whether to return.

If you are interested, here are some of the previous complaints which have been heard and sanctions imposed by the BACP Hearing Findings, Decision & Sanction - BACP Professional Conduct

I know this might not feel appropriate for you right now and that's understandable, but it could be something to bear in mind if you ever wanted to go down that road. I'm sorry your therapist proved himself to be completely incompetent at working with sexual assault.

I would be concerned that in going back, he would turn this into a learning experience for you--as in you getting your voice back--rather than a total and complete admission of his ignorance and incompetence as a therapist for women who have been sexually assaulted. No one misspeaks about telling a woman they should have said no more forcefully. That came from his own belief. I would just hate to see him turn this around as a learning experience for you. You can learn from it by walking away from this kind of attitude, not by submitting to his ideas for how you should heal--which feels like more male dominance. He doesn't get to tell you how to heal.

"It's the most important work we've done so far..." Now that is c-r-a-p. Only one of you needs to do some work, and it isn't you.

If he is really sorry, and if he genuinely realizes his mistake, the email should be about that. I agree with rr: there's every sign he's aiming to turn this into a learning experience for you instead of himself. And that's gaslighting.

Like you, OP, I have been through a sexual assault, and although I fought, I lost. If anyone, therapist or otherwise, were to attempt to tell me that I should have said no more forcefully or fought harder, they would be gone from my life. I understand the desire to express anger at him, but after that I would cut him dead.

I guess I look at this differently. I do think that what he was trying to communicate and what came out of his mouth were two different things, and I don't hear some deep-seeded message or belief in his words.

Here's where I come from: I was assaulted as a minor by people who were authority figures and who I felt little power against because of the adult/child dynamic. One of the things my therapists reminded me of was that if in the same situation now that I had been in at a younger place, in a different place, is that I would very likely react much differently and handle things much differently. That wasn't a matter at all of putting blame on me for what had happened; instead, it was a matter of acknowledging that as I've aged and grown and found my own healing, I do have much more internal and external agency against the type of people who originally assaulted me.

My therapists got very specific with me about self-defense tactics that I really wasn't trained in or that aware of so that if ever put in that position again, I would at least be able to buy myself some time to hopefully get away. That wasn't putting blame on me for any past or (God forbid) future assaults; that was giving me some concrete skills to keep me a bit safer physically, and I appreciated the concrete information and skills that also helped me find a bit better sense of internal safety.

I think "you should have said no more forcefully" is blame. Pure and simple. Especially given that the op was pinned down. Which means the therapist's reasoning - more agency! - is completely absent of any factual basis.

We're not talking about adult assaults on children - does anyone not an abuser defend those? - we're talking about an attack on a presumably adult female. And that is where the bias against victims/survivors really comes in socially. I think the op is justified in her anger; I would leave the therapist if I were her, but that is her choice.

'It's the most important work we've done so far'. I thought that he might be referring to the OP appropriately challenging him and expressing anger towards him

His comment was ignorant, smug and throws back to an earlier era of male dominance. How dare he. There's plenty of information about sexual assault available, and I'd expect any well-read person, and certainly a therapist to be well familiar with it. There's no excuse for such a stupid comment, and a few US politicians have lost their offices with similar statements.

I'm furious on your behalf. Any excuse, anything other than his admission of abject ignorance is feigning and manipulation. You have to decide if this massive
misstep is compensated by your other history, but the test is his.

I hope you have, or find authentic support. Wishing you strength and safety.

Just wanted to say - this is a very personal story and you've explained it with a perspective that may help others. Thank you for sharing with us.

I was in a situation- not the same thing - but where I was frightened there would be a murder and I called the police, but I was too afraid to speak. My T said "If that happened now, you wouldn't do that" (i.e. be unable to speak), and it felt dismissive, but T was also reminding me that I would have more control and be better able to protect myself - by speaking to the police - if I was ever in a similar situation again.

I would just encourage you to not swallow your anger as somehow "misplaced" or "too much" or "inappropriate" or "unfair." I also think it would be very difficult to not hold onto residual guilt if you walk away. You deserve the confrontation with him, he should openly hear and accept your anger at his response, and you both should get the opportunity to see if there's any benefit to continuing. But like ruh roh I, too, feel a sense that he's currently seeing this as a "learning opportunity" for you, rather than as a mandate for his own attitude adjustment. And as Oliviab acknowledged, it's not your job (and I'm not sure it would be possible for any client) to help him confront this in himself.

Every crime or crisis situation is unique. I don't know how anyone can predict a reaction or feel assured she would have handled it better.

Thank you everyone. I'm sorry I haven't replied to more of you individually, but I really, really appreciate it.

I spoke to him on the phone. He still doesn't get it. He said he was sorry but I had to actually say 'can you please reassure me that you don't actually think some of the blame lies with me' to get him to say it to me. He took refuge in counsellor psychobabble and kept saying there was great therapeutic benefit in continuing our sessions. FFS. He also said he would never know what it was like to be a woman being raped but that most women wouldn't either. I just went numb at that point. He just doesn't get it.