Continued from https://forums.psychcentral.com/psyc...xxiii-100.html

[LonesomeTonight]

Dear MC,
I just had a realization of what might be going on here--that maybe my anger at you for the move, being more strict on session time, seeming less empathic (even though I know that's not at all about me)--maybe that's actually anger at my parents? Damn it, I really wish I could tell you this before Monday...I mean, I guess I could, but you might think it's a thinly veiled search for reassurance, when it's more like, "Hey, guess what I figured out! (Which you may have already figured out...)"

But I suppose the insight can wait. Might tell T, though!
Love,
LT

Originally Posted by LonesomeTonight

Dear MC,
I just had a realization of what might be going on here--that maybe my anger at you for the move, being more strict on session time, seeming less empathic (even though I know that's not at all about me)--maybe that's actually anger at my parents? Damn it, I really wish I could tell you this before Monday...I mean, I guess I could, but you might think it's a thinly veiled search for reassurance, when it's more like, "Hey, guess what I figured out! (Which you may have already figured out...)"

But I suppose the insight can wait. Might tell T, though!
Love,
LT

I had this about the object permanence thing - to email or not to email? I just about managed to hold onto it. Posting here helped. Sounds like a great insight!

[Elio]

Dear Dr. S. 6 hours and counting. I can't wait to see you. I hope you can somehow help calm my anxiety and let me know everything really is ok between us. Will you tell me if you are concerned or afraid by what I shared, how you are going to handle it? I mean it is one thing to hear those things from someone that is in a psychotic episode, but what do you do/think when the person is calm, cool, and in control? - me

[Elio]

Originally Posted by Echos Myron

I had this about the object permanence thing - to email or not to email? I just about managed to hold onto it. Posting here helped. Sounds like a great insight!

Echos, could you talk more about object permanence? Maybe in a different thread? How long should someone without issues be able to hold object permanence? What is the developmental stages of object permanence?... ok maybe I should just use my friend "the google" . I think this is part of my attachment issues. In my early childhood (first 4 yrs of life) I had a variety of primary care givers that came and went, some were around for a while others just for weeks. All of them were extended relatives. The one I bonded with the most, left when I was 2 to join the Navy. He got married while in the Navy and never returned to living with me. So, while I can believe the person still exists, I don't think I believe their place in my life is real... like they become just another name in a list of names, just another face on the train, a stranger. Shoot does that even make sense and am I talking about object permanence here?

Originally Posted by Elio

Echos, could you talk more about object permanence? Maybe in a different thread? How long should someone without issues be able to hold object permanence? What is the developmental stages of object permanence?... ok maybe I should just use my friend "the google" . I think this is part of my attachment issues. In my early childhood (first 4 yrs of life) I had a variety of primary care givers that came and went, some were around for a while others just for weeks. All of them were extended relatives. The one I bonded with the most, left when I was 2 to join the Navy. He got married while in the Navy and never returned to living with me. So, while I can believe the person still exists, I don't think I believe their place in my life is real... like they become just another name in a list of names, just another face on the train, a stranger. Shoot does that even make sense and am I talking about object permanence here?

It sounds like what you experience is in that area. Does it apply to current attachments? It's a complex thing I think. I'm not particularly an expert on the theory. For me, sometimes I can really believe that somebody doesn't exist when they're not there for a time and it's quite powerful when I see them again and realise they do exist. Like how hysterical a baby gets during peekaboo. I felt like that inside today when I saw T.

[Elio]

Yes, it applies to all relationships. The more time that goes on between contact the less connected I feel to a person and before long, their placement in my sphere of comfort is way out there that they might as well be a stranger and I won't share anything of myself with them. The only people that don't fall in this category is my siblings. Hmm, interesting... with me and my siblings it can feel like that is happening but as soon as we are together, it's like no time has passed. Something to put in the idea jar to talk about when there is less going on in my therapy.

[awkwardlyyours]

I believe we'll be done tonight.

Rest assured, I'll pull out my fail-safe "It's not you, it's me" routine if you show any signs of distress.

[junkDNA]

at the end i asked you ' can i ask you something?' you said yeah, always. but for some reason i felt that you were annoyed... and that was my question... i just wanted a little reassurance like, do you care? do you hate me? are you angry at me? .... i got nervous and said never mind. you said ok.. well just let me know if you want to ask. it was time to leave so i just left. i dont know if you telling me any of that will do any good though

me

[cinnamon_roll]

art T,
I was looking forward to group this week. Really.

But it was desastrous tonight. I cannot even say why. I'm so out of touch with myself.

I don't think being part of this group is good for me nor is it good for the group. It was so obvious that people couldn't cope with me being unconsolable and sobbing without really wanting to. At the same time being stroppy and fed up with all of this.
Heck, I couldn't really cope with all my crying myself. Still can't. and if you're honest, you were a bit clueless what to do as well - whether to focus on me as an individual or on the group as a whole.

in pain,
c_r

Hugs CR, that sounds rough

[cinnamon_roll]

Originally Posted by Echos Myron

Hugs CR, that sounds rough

Thanks, EM. It is really rough.
The irony is, I originally started art therapy as an addition to the mix to help me stabilize myself better. But this group context is totally de-stabilizing.
I'm seriously considering to quit. I gave myself 10 sessions to find out whether this will work for me. Tonight was session #9.

[Waterbear]

Tomorrow I will see you tomorrow.

Ahhhh i can't wait to get there today for some reason!!

[junkDNA]

Feel paranoid that you secretly hate me

But I can't check that out until Sunday

Realized today I went from seeing you basically every day plus numerous texts and emails to now.... 2 hours per week and radio silence in between

I try to not let it bother me.... Try to tell myself it's "for the best"

[subtle lights]

I wish I wouldn't have to hunt free appointment slots all the time. It's fun sometimes because of the variation but mostly I'd like if you cared about when I'm coming next...or suggesting when to go. I could come once a month or once a week and it'd be whatever for you...Or am I playing again the "I want you to care" game? Well, I do. I can't help it....I really have that need...

Hey t. I didn't notice it until I was leaving after we both stepped outside... but dang woman you looked tired. It's making me feel... sad. We had such a good session, covered some good stuff, you were very present and attuned and everything else as usual but you... just... well you looked older than I'm used to you looking and you looked tired.

Possible trigger:

15 is feeling very fearful of losing you

and i don't quite know how to talk to you about that. i know you always say you are in excellent health and plan to still be working when you are 100, but... t. i love you so much.

Possible trigger:

and i am afraid of losing you like i lost my grandma. i know i am older now and all that good stuff but i'm really not. i'm not. i'm still 15 inside. and i need to grow up before you die.

we need to talk about this next week.

and yeah. kinda telling i suppose that i don't worry about the same thing with my mother, and she's 12 years older than you.

[Elio]

Dear Dr S, today was not enough time! And I don't want you to go on vacation! 12days almost 2wks. Are you going to do anything to help it be easier? Can we play next week? We need to play. I already miss you. The little boy misses you. Why do you have to be so human to need vacations? Love you, me

And yeah t. I wanted to stay longer today. Thanks for the extra few minutes to let me read my fairy tale part 2. I really didn't want to leave you today.

[awkwardlyyours]

Originally Posted by awkwardlyyours

I believe we'll be done tonight.

Rest assured, I'll pull out my fail-safe "It's not you, it's me" routine if you show any signs of distress.

After spending the whole session, wondering if I should terminate or take a break, decided to give it a few more sessions to see how it goes (back to my usual vacillating self).

She was well in control. Very civilized discussion all around. Thank heavens.

Well t that was a difficult email I just sent you.

I love you too much again, don't I.

I can't stand not knowing, it is sending me into a panic. I will find out,like I did before.

[captgut]

I'm hopeless. Can you agree with me?
I know, your job is to say "No captgut, you're not hopeless!". Even if you don't think so.
Do you hate me for that?
You don't have to pretend like i'm not hopeless.
I know the truth, you know the truth.
Why the hell are we kidding each other?

[ScarletPimpernel]

T,
I miss you already! This is going to be a long month...

T,

I want to matter more to you. To be in your mind sometimes.

I'm envious of your other clients. I don't like sharing you. I know I'm selfish and possessive and this is immature of me.

I imagine you enjoy other patients more. That you don't like me because I'm not likeable. You've said parts of me are annoying. They're probably big parts.

I secretly like that you consider me one of you long term patients because hospital outpatient clinic likes short term stuff for. But I wish you'd understand that I've only had 48 sessions over three years, and that's only a year of weeks therapy.

Schema therapy in the Netherlands clinical trial is twice a week for two years or so, T...