[Calilady]

I went back to my original T and we brought up my attachment issues. We were talking about how she called me rude when I had pulled back from a friend because my friend called me out since I don't have her as a contact in my phone.

She said, "Look, I'm gonna call you out on your behavior. If you're rude, I'm not gonna sugarcoat it. You've been this way since day one and it's affected your relationships. I don't care if I'm stored in your phone or not. It's her."

Being stored in my phone is someone officially in my life. I have only a few contacts in my phone and I told her I had stored her, previously and that she had become official. "well about time" she said, "Its only been a year." To hear, "Look I don't care if I'm in your phone or not" was hard, considering she knows that I see her as an attachment figure and what it meant. I don't even understand why she said that.

To be attached to her and hear, "I don't care." Hurts. I don't think I can continue with her. Still doesn't make sense because we weren't talking about her as a contact in my phone.

At the end, she asked what would have happened had she not contacted me and why I didn't contact her. If I was gonna just start mailing in payments without trying to patch it up first.

Continued...

[Calilady]

For someone with attachment issues, it stings.

On another note, she said she didn't slam the door and that she had people asking about what was going on when I left. I didn't slam the door and we were both animated as the other. She said not to do that at her offices again. She also said that when I got up and said, "I know you need to get paid, I'll mail the payments in" that it was equivalent to "***** you Jessica, I'm leaving." Soooo not what I meant and made me question if she knew me.

[treevoice]

I didn't get the impression that she was saying she doesn't care in general, just that she doesn't care about her phone number being in your phone? Maybe I'm missing a piece of the picture here (please correct me if so), but it seems a little drastic to consider ending the relationship over that. I sometimes have to remind myself that the people I seek help from are trying to get me beyond my usual unhealthy patterns of thinking/behaving, so I would not want or expect them to coddle/protect me from those same patterns. Maybe this is a good opportunity to practice taking a step back from the initial sting of what was said and approach the situation in a new/healthier way.

[Calilady]

She said I wanted her to fail. That I was highly critical of her and wanted her to fail...that she's human and not gonna treat me like a delicate flower. I told her, "I'm trying to help you to help me. I want to get better," and she said it didn't feel like it and that I was looking for any reason to fail her.

I said, "I need to know that you see me. It doesn't feel like you have the last month or so. To be fair to you, maybe we haven't had much time" and she said,
"see? We keep going back to me not doing something." Ugh.

Is it
Me?!

[Nammu]

Why did you go back to her?

[Calilady]

Originally Posted by Nammu

Why did you go back to her?

I was wondering if my avoidant issues drove me away. I tried to convey to her that I had faith in her, that I wasn't telling her how to do her job, that I wanted her to help me. But she didn't take it that way. I apologized. She didn't. Although she did say it was the room next door who slammed the door. So maybe I was mistaken about that...but not to do that in her office again. I'm still unsure what she meant...we were both talking over the other.

[ruh roh]

This doesn't sound like a therapy relationship at all. At least, not one I am familiar with.

If you want to have better relationships, maybe look for one who is better at building and maintaining them?

[velcro003]

nope, nope, nope. there are so many red flags here. I am also avoidant, and my T has NEVER held it against me, ever. I literally spent the last session hidden behind a pillow, which isn't the first time it has happened. Talk about being avoidant! She usually makes a joke that it is hard to do therapy when she cant' see me, but she is kidding around, and i know that she is okay with me hiding if that is what i need.

UGH. I think you need to not go back to her.

[guilloche]

I haven't followed any previous posts on this, so forgive me if I'm missing some history (it feels like I might be missing something).

I think this is actually kind of complicated, with lots going on.

First, does this T have any actual understanding of attachment issues? Is that something she has studied and treats regularly? Because she sounds like she doesn't know what the heck she's doing.

The sarcastic response when you told her that you added her to your phone contacts is just so sad and inappropriate. Sarcasm feels mean to me. I get that it's fairly normal in life, and a way we deal with stuff, but I think that it's not appropriate response in therapy. It's sort of prickly, isn't it? I mean, to me, it sounds like she's judging/shaming you for not putting her in the phone sooner ("Oh, it's only been a year...").

I think there are many better ways that a T could respond! Some might actually focus on what you're saying here - that they're officially a part of your life, you've let down a wall, somewhere, and are letting them in! That's great, they should respond with some acknowledgement of that!

(The new T that I'm seeing would probably say something like, "Wow! I realize how few people you choose to put in to your phone, and I'm honored. How does it feel to you, to have me be in your life 'officially'?")

I think a different approach would be to not necessarily validate, but to talk about the meaning - what does it mean to you, why now, why so few people... all valid paths for exploration, right?

But, the sarcasm thing seems really off to me. I'm sorry she responded like that!

re: Calling you out on your behavior... this is a really hard one for me. My last T considered himself "tough" and was definitely "not here to be your friend". He told me that he saw his job as "asking the hard questions". And, that totally didn't work for me. There was actually a lot that I liked about him, but therapy was like banging my head against a wall.

I wonder if that might be helpful - for some people, in some circumstances... but not for everyone. Does it feel helpful to you? Do you welcome her "calling you out" as honest, genuine, helpful feedback? Or would you do better with someone with more tact and understanding?

I really wanted to feel like my T was on my side, and it's hard for me to feel like that if someone is calling me out and calling me rude. Come to think of it, that last T, for all his toughness - would NOT have said something like that (I think).

I'm curious too, if you don't mind sharing, how did you end up returning to this T? Did you talk to any others? It's very hard, in my opinion, to find a good T - although some people luck in to it.. and personality match can be such a huge thing. Do you think that you might do better with someone who is a better match for you?

You said, "At the end, she asked what would have happened had she not contacted me and why I didn't contact her." - so she contacted you after you left? Had you actually quit therapy at that point - or did you just leave without setting up another appointment. Most good Ts won't chase you down like this, I think, so that's a red flag to me.

(Oooh... and the "feeling seen" thing is such a huge one for me too! If your T doesn't even understand what you mean or care that you're not feeling seen, that would be another big red flag for me. I'm sorry!)

Good luck!

[Calilady]

Originally Posted by guilloche

I haven't followed any previous posts on this, so forgive me if I'm missing some history (it feels like I might be missing something).

I think this is actually kind of complicated, with lots going on.

First, does this T have any actual understanding of attachment issues? Is that something she has studied and
Good luck!

She doesn't specialize in attachment. I think when she said today, unprovoked because we weren't talking about if she was still in my phone, that "I DONT CARE IF IM IN YOUR PHONE OR NOT" was a dagger to the heart. She knows the symbolism of it. To say you don't care, when we weren't talking about that, was like a punch in the gut. My attachment figure doesn't care.

[Nammu]

i think she was trying to point out that your friend who you don't have on your phone cares that she's not on it. How do you think your friend feels being told she's not on your phone. I think that's the point she was trying to make but you walked away feeling hurt cause she doesn't and shouldn't care wether or not she's on your phone.

[Calilady]

Originally Posted by Nammu

i think she was trying to point out that your friend who you don't have on your phone cares that she's not on it. How do you think your friend feels being told she's not on your phone. I think that's the point she was trying to make but you walked away feeling hurt cause she doesn't and shouldn't care wether or not she's on your phone.

Her exact words (knowing that I had put her in my phone in April and that it was a huge deal, along with calling her by her name and not a title), was "I don't care if I'm not in your phone or not. She does. Not me." We weren't talking about my T being in my phone although she knows the symbolism of it.

Ironically enough, I took my T out of my phone contacts this weekend and put my friend in. I didn't tell T that.
It was more of the symbolism. My T is an attachment figure to me.
I had just told her that she has the capability of cutting me with her words. I'm much more sensitive with those I'm attached to.
I was tearing up on my way out of the door. She wanted me to stick around and get an appointment reminder and see the new supplies she ordered. I was like, "I have to go." I didn't want her to see me cry. I've always felt safe to allow her to see me cry. Not this time.

[Calilady]

Originally Posted by guilloche

First, does this T have any actual understanding of attachment issues? Is that something she has studied and treats regularly? Because she sounds like she doesn't know what the heck she's doing.

From what I understand, no. She's a director at a recovery center...she hasn't made any mention of dealing w/attachment issues. She's actually younger than I am, she being 33 and I'm 35. Very young. Not sure how long she's been in practice...maybe 5-6 years?

Originally Posted by guilloche

I think there are many better ways that a T could respond! Some might actually focus on what you're saying here - that they're officially a part of your life, you've let down a wall, somewhere, and are letting them in! That's great, they should respond with some acknowledgement of that!

(The new T that I'm seeing would probably say something like, "Wow! I realize how few people you choose to put in to your phone, and I'm honored. How does it feel to you, to have me be in your life 'officially'?")

I think this is what I would have liked. Yesterday, when she said she didn't care if she was a stored contact in my phone- which I felt was unprovoked- it stung, considering that she knew the symbolism of it.

Originally Posted by guilloche

I'm curious too, if you don't mind sharing, how did you end up returning to this T? Did you talk to any others? Do you think that you might do better with someone who is a better match for you?

We had an argument about my course of treatment. I was tired of just (after 1 year and 3 months) of talking about the week before. She wanted my panic and anxiety to completely dissipate before we dove in...I felt that my tendency to block my emotions and people out is causing the panic and anxiety and taking a toll on me physically (and the article I supplied her with, corroborated that).

I think I need someone who understands attachment trauma.

Originally Posted by guilloche

You said, "At the end, she asked what would have happened had she not contacted me and why I didn't contact her." - so she contacted you after you left? Had you actually quit therapy at that point - or did you just leave without setting up another appointment. Most good Ts won't chase you down like this, I think, so that's a red flag to me.

We had a disagreement in her office. It escalated and we both became animated. I asked her point blank if she was gonna help me with this and she said no. I said, "There ya go" and got up and walked to the door. As I opened it, I said, "I know I owe you money. I'll mail the payments in" to which her reply was, "Nice. Real nice." I closed the door and I heard a door open and slam (she later refuted it was her, that it was another door in her offices). To me, I had quit.

That was a Friday. On Wednesday, after no communication, she e-mailed me asking how I was doing and if I wanted an appointment and she'd love to "put me in the books." It sounded nice enough. I replied (I do feel loyal to her).
Then at the end of the session, she said, "And what would have happened had I not contacted you? Were you thinking of contacting me? What would have happened? Would you just started to mail in payments?"
It was an odd line of questions to me. I've had those questions before...from boyfriends and my ex-husband when we were fighting. Not from a professional (a point she drove home during the last appointment).

Today she said, "When you got up, you basically said '***** you Jessica." I was dumbfounded. Then she said, "Well you didn't say that, but you could have." I don't feel like she's knows me if she would think that's what I meant.

Originally Posted by Calilady

She doesn't specialize in attachment. I think when she said today, unprovoked because we weren't talking about if she was still in my phone, that "I DONT CARE IF IM IN YOUR PHONE OR NOT" was a dagger to the heart. She knows the symbolism of it. To say you don't care, when we weren't talking about that, was like a punch in the gut. My attachment figure doesn't care.

[Sunflower123]

This doesn't sound like a good therapy relationship. I've had quite a few therapists and have never experienced one like this. It's unprofessional and not productive or helpful. Frankly, she sounds awful. I couldn't tell from your posts, but I encourage you not to go back. Good luck and best wishes.

I would be terrified of your T. The sarcasm alone would make me pissed! My T will challenge my behaviour, but doesn't do it in a confrontational way. It's always in a constructive, calm & fairly gentle way. He never the less usually hits a nerve though. I couldn't work with your T.

[satsuma]

This T says she is not going to treat you like a delicate flower. I would say that Ts more or less should treat their clients in a delicate way, because if someone comes to see a T it is usually because they are experiencing problems, so they are already in a painful and vulnerable place to begin with, and then they need to take a risk and share these things with a T and trust that T, making them even more vulnerable. I think that "I'm not going to treat you like a delicate flower" just would not wash for me, in terms of the therapeutic relationship.

Of course sometimes T might want to speak about difficult topics or say something that is hard for the client to hear. I think they need to do this carefully and delicately, and on the basis of a trusting relationship which the T has put a lot of effort into first.

[Calilady]

This right here. I can't be vulnerable in front of her anymore. Her office used to be my safe zone. No matter what I was going through, I knew that if I got to that day and walked up that flight of stairs, I would be safe.

This is no longer the case.

As I was walking out and she was taking forever to give me a new time, I kept thinking to myself, "If I can make it to my car, I can start to cry and I'll be SAFE." Her office is no longer safe to me. A place of comfort.

When I was a kid, I'd feel this way. If my parents were mean or nasty to me...I knew if I could hide it, if I could put it away for just a little while and make it into the shower, that I could finally sob uncontrollably. I'd be safe.

She made mention that she had been thinking of it over the weekend and then kinda backtracked, like she didn't wanna reveal that.

Originally Posted by satsuma

This T says she is not going to treat you like a delicate flower. I would say that Ts more or less should treat their clients in a delicate way, because if someone comes to see a T it is usually because they are experiencing problems, so they are already in a painful and vulnerable place to begin with, and then they need to take a risk and share these things with a T and trust that T, making them even more vulnerable. I think that "I'm not going to treat you like a delicate flower" just would not wash for me, in terms of the therapeutic relationship.

Of course sometimes T might want to speak about difficult topics or say something that is hard for the client to hear. I think they need to do this carefully and delicately, and on the basis of a trusting relationship which the T has put a lot of effort into first.

This therapist seems to often speak and act quite impulsively. Avoiding being treated the way she does you is probably not a bad thing?

[Calilady]

Originally Posted by Xynesthesia

This therapist seems to often speak and act quite impulsively. Avoiding being treated the way she does you is probably not a bad thing?

I could hear her saying that by avoiding the way she's treating me, that I'm just being an avoidant.

But yes, I agree with you. I'll have to call her on Monday.