Some of us have power; agency but give to our Ts.

But to us, it's unusable--inaccessible, hidden, dissociated, unconsciously forbidden. How did we get so disempowered? Was it better before, during, or after therapy? And why does it happen in therapy.

I gave him my power (well not consciously). Everything he said or did impacted me. It was like I was weak and dependent. Like his actions determined my fate rather than mine.

[atisketatasket]

I blame society.

No, seriously, I kind of do. Lots of people end up in therapy because they have persistently received a message that they are worthless and should not have power over their own lives. This message is delivered in any number of ways: abusive relationships, traumas, marginalization of minorities/the sick/the mentally ill, etc.

So I think some give it away because that is what they are used to: someone else having the control and the choice, and a therapist seems like an authority figure that can be trusted. And, since therapy like any relationship is susceptible to abuse, some therapists actively encourage clients in giving away their own agency to the therapist, to feed his or her ego or need for control or whatever issue the therapist has.

[lucozader]

I can relate to this so much right now. Ouch.

It's particularly confusing and upsetting because my T makes out that he is all about helping me act with agency, and take responsibility for myself. But the opposite seems to be happening instead, and I'm sure he is playing his part in that.

[Shazerac]

I used to do that many years ago. Give my power away. But then I tended to do that with all health professional...doctors dentists, etc. it's especially difficult with Ts and pdoc because as you said, we are told by society that we are not thinking "right". We "need" someone to tell us how to think.

Now that I'm a cranky crone in my sixties I view them quite differently. I now view them as my employees. I have hired them to provide me with a service. No different than a plumber who comes to my house to fix a leaky pipe. They are at my service for me to bounce ideas off of, to voice my fears and whatever seems to be bugging me now matter how wierd or trivial it feels. I engage them as a reality check. However at the end of the day I reserve final say in what tools and takeaways I want to use.

I have left pdoc for no other reason then I simply don't like them. I know everyone does not have the freedom to doctor hop and that makes me sad. But just like leaving a job I never leave a doctor until i have an appointment with another pdoc. That way I don't reach that horrifying place where I have no meds and it's weeks or months away from my next appt. for me that's self distructive and I try not to do that to myself.

[awkwardlyyours]

Sorry...deleted.....thought better about it (read OP's other threads).

[Nammu]

If you're aware that you do this, it's the first step in reclaiming your power.

[BudFox]

I'd say therapy is more susceptible to abuse (subtle and not) than any other relationship. It is an abuse-generator.

As for disempowerment, I think it's mostly the combination of client desperation and therapist seduction. The therapist is dishing out the most addictive stuff -- attunement, understanding, focused listening, the appearance of caring, and the promise of liberation from suffering. Never mind that it might all be bullsh*t, if it feels real at some level.

Also, therapy is constructed by and for therapists. It is their game. It's a closed system to which the client must conform in order to "get help". There is little wiggle room for the client to assert autonomy or power. That would kill the game. The client gains autonomy and power only when and if the therapist grants it. This is why the client who terminates against the wishes of the therapist creates such a s**t-storm. And the therapist will try to manipulate the situation to either get the client to continue, or to make it look like they (the therapist) made the final decision.

[Ididitmyway]

"How did we get so disempowered?"

Because we are trained by the society not to trust ourselves, not to believe that we are capable to make sound decisions. We are trained to give our power first to our parents, then to our teachers, then to our employers, to our doctors, therapists and other professionals, to political, business and religious leaders etc., etc. There is always someone whom we are supposed to listen to because they "know better". Their "expertise" or their title or their societal position gives them the authority to tell everyone else what to do and we buy that.

This is NOT to say that there is no legitimate expertise or legitimate positions in which people can have more knowledge and experience than others and thus it's a good idea to pay attention to what they say. But we give our power away when we start believing that their knowledge is ABSOLUTE gospel and start blindly accepting everything they say without any scrutiny.

We give our power away the moment we decide not to use our critical thinking, to dismiss our intuition and to overlook some obvious realities that contradict what the people in powerful positions are preaching. We tend to do that because it's, actually, much easier to give our power away than to use it. Using our power implies embracing the freedom to make our independent choices, but freedom always comes with responsibility. Once we accept that we have the freedom to make a choice, we would have no choice but to accept that we are fully responsible for the choices we make. And that is something that most people are unwilling to do. Hence it's much easier to stay dependent on someone and to suffer from the lack of personal power than to liberate ourselves.

[BudFox]

Therapy is set up to provoke emotional dependency. Dependency by definition is powerlessnes.

It's ironic because at the beginning the client is in charge. The client makes the decision to come (in many cases), decides what to share, can quit at any time. But once dependency sets in and these monstrous cravings take over, the therapist rules and can be as despotic as they like, and the client must obey.

[here today]

Originally Posted by Ididitmyway

". . .
We give our power away the moment we decide not to use our critical thinking, to dismiss our intuition and to overlook some obvious realities that contradict what the people in powerful positions are preaching. We tend to do that because it's, actually, much easier to give our power away than to use it. .
. .

I agree with the first sentence, disagree with the second. We learn to disavow our critical thinking, to invalidate our intuition (as others in our early environment do) and to overlook some obvious realities that contradict what the people in powerful positions are saying because it is SAFER. We learn to do it when we are little and not so sure of ourselves, and give our power away in order to keep our alliance with the people in power, and their goodwill.

It becomes a habit.

Then, when we grown up, it can be very, very tough to find. Especially if and when we are all alone with our intuition, critical thinking, and observation of the realities. That can be very, very scary. And uncertain.

I, for one, "grounded" myself in the authorities and ideas, and it's been very, very tough to get my own grounding back. Plus I don't want to be all, all alone, which accepting my own power seems to imply. Though I'm testing that proposition a lot these days. Who wants to be around an old woman who has given her power away, anyway? She will necessarily want some of yours, as part of the bargain, like the one she made with the people in power years ago. Only they are all dead now, anyway.

Hm. . .maybe that's what I did with my therapists?

[missbella]

My therapists coaxed me to surrender my power to them in subtle ways: through controlling the narrative, by (sometimes contemptuously) judging my actions and lives, by establishing a dynamic which conveyed their "approval" was important and by pretending to know far more about my life, my thinking, my past, outcomes and life in general than they possibly could have. In other words, they played "all powerful" to my enfeeblement. It was a ruse that enmeshed me in as unwitting collaborator, thinking this the path to bettering my life.

[here today]

Well said. ^

[zoiecat]

I find this whole subject sad. Yes I agree part of it is society. I think part of it as well is that everybody wants a quick fix. I don't mean that in a judging way. I'm just saying that society has led us to the way of thinking where there's a pill for everything, there's a quick fix for everything. We want to feel better so we let ourselves fall into the belief that the therapist knows all and if we just give ourselves over to them they will solve everything for us without us having to put in the work and suffer the pain ourselves. I know my response is not going to be the most popular one but in a way I think many of us get what we're looking for. As previous people as stated we don't want to take the responsibility for making our own decisions it's much easier to let somebody else rule our lives and blame them when things go wrong versus making our own decisions and having to blame ourselves. Another way to look at it is we did make the decision to let them rule our lives. So in that way we gave up our control by choice. It seemed to be the easier road at the time. In that respect we did make her own decision and have to accept the price for that decision.

Thankfully I am coming at this subject from a totally opposite side of the fence which is equally as sad when you think about the price I've paid for my point of view. I grew up as an only child in an extremely abusive and neglectful house. I learned at a young age that I cannot rely on anyone I must rely on myself. I must be strong I can't give my power over to anyone. I have to be in control I cannot let anybody ever know that I am scared. I always had to build walls, not let anybody in to see the frightened little child inside. I carried this philosophy into adulthood and I actually did not learn that I feel fear until about 4 months into therapy which began in my 50s. I'm extremely lucky to have a great therapist who does not want me to be dependent or try to get me to be dependent on him. He actually tells me don't trust him too much he's going to make mistakes. He also tells me how strong I am especially once he learned that the thought of me feeling fear drove me to dissociation. My need to control everything has been with me since childhood. I have DID and I have an altar who comes out if I start crying or show fear in public. This was how I survived as a child. The price I paid throughout childhood allows me to not have to worry about giving power over to a therapist because I don't trust him at all really. I like him I feel he's helping me but I never blindly trust anything he says without doing my own research and sitting down and coming to my own conclusion of what he is saying. So although I will never share the problem some of you have, coming from the opposite end of the spectrum is just as sad. The price I paid in order to not have your problem was just as painful and has lasted a lifetime.

It was interesting to read all the responses, but I can't really relate to most of the posts. My issue that sparked this thread was emotional and attachment, and it only happens with my therapist. I do not blindly trust anyone, and not my therapist, or trust anyone who I need something from in that regard. I didn't realize blindly trusting is a common issue...

So this involves attachment to my therapist, it doesn't transfer to other people. Would be interested in hearing about others who have this issue. I also don't think my therapist necessarily encouraged it, but allowing the dependency is the way he works in that he did not respond to my needs, really any of them, and repressed childhood states emerged because the relationship mirrored childhood neglect. Now I am realizing that I don't think he is really suited for this type of work, for someone with my background. I didn't see this before. Now it is too late. I am a different person.

But in other ways, he did hold all the 'power' and seem to control everything. Nothing was agreed upon with me, he has a domineering way about him. I feel damaged. My only choice--ever--was to leave. No matter what what wrong, I apologized. I conceded. I was masochistic when I felt he might be angry or wouldn't want to deal with me when I became too needy. He seemed to always have to have 'one up' on me. Well, that's another topic, I suppose..

zoiecat, your post made me realize-it's as if a dissociative state surfaced and it won't dissociate back in, not sure how else to explain it. I was independent my whole life, much like your story. It was not healthy, but it enabled me to go about my life. But now I feel imprisoned. And I could relate to the fear surfacing as you described. Those fear states can be frightening. Thanks for sharing, you made me realize some things.

I wish I could go back. I am past the fear, it's daily despair and pain. And the person who I needed to resolve this with cut me off abruptly, mirroring a milestone from my childhood where i was abandoned by both parents. I can't separate the 2 as much as I try. It won't let up. I can't get past it. I've tried to just accept the fate, but it doesn't help. I just can't believe how what this man did affects me so much.

[here today]

Originally Posted by zoiecat

I find this whole subject sad. Yes I agree part of it is society. I think part of it as well is that everybody wants a quick fix. I don't mean that in a judging way. I'm just saying that society has led us to the way of thinking where there's a pill for everything, there's a quick fix for everything. We want to feel better so we let ourselves fall into the belief that the therapist knows all and if we just give ourselves over to them they will solve everything for us without us having to put in the work and suffer the pain ourselves. I know my response is not going to be the most popular one but in a way I think many of us get what we're looking for. As previous people as stated we don't want to take the responsibility for making our own decisions it's much easier to let somebody else rule our lives and blame them when things go wrong versus making our own decisions and having to blame ourselves. Another way to look at it is we did make the decision to let them rule our lives. So in that way we gave up our control by choice. It seemed to be the easier road at the time. In that respect we did make her own decision and have to accept the price for that decision.

Thankfully I am coming at this subject from a totally opposite side of the fence which is equally as sad when you think about the price I've paid for my point of view. I grew up as an only child in an extremely abusive and neglectful house. I learned at a young age that I cannot rely on anyone I must rely on myself. I must be strong I can't give my power over to anyone. I have to be in control I cannot let anybody ever know that I am scared. I always had to build walls, not let anybody in to see the frightened little child inside. I carried this philosophy into adulthood and I actually did not learn that I feel fear until about 4 months into therapy which began in my 50s. I'm extremely lucky to have a great therapist who does not want me to be dependent or try to get me to be dependent on him. He actually tells me don't trust him too much he's going to make mistakes. He also tells me how strong I am especially once he learned that the thought of me feeling fear drove me to dissociation. My need to control everything has been with me since childhood. I have DID and I have an altar who comes out if I start crying or show fear in public. This was how I survived as a child. The price I paid throughout childhood allows me to not have to worry about giving power over to a therapist because I don't trust him at all really. I like him I feel he's helping me but I never blindly trust anything he says without doing my own research and sitting down and coming to my own conclusion of what he is saying. So although I will never share the problem some of you have, coming from the opposite end of the spectrum is just as sad. The price I paid in order to not have your problem was just as painful and has lasted a lifetime.

I respect what you have to say about yourself and your own situation. But you do not know what my life was like, internally and externally. I never used to blame anyone except myself. Getting to the point where I can actually see the other person's impact and influence in a situation is actually progress, for me. I've been in and out of therapy for 55 years, almost continuously for the last 20. I have given it the best that I could do. Therefore, I can say with some accuracy that your statement in the first paragraph is just wrong. And judgmental. At least as regards to me.

Since you state in the second paragraph that you are coming at the situation from the other side of the fence, your use of the word "we" in the first paragraph is a misrepresentation. For what intended effect, I'm not sure. Maybe you can write some more about that?

I do not think that it is "easier" to kill yourself off (emotionally) in terror when you are a little kid so that you won't lose your parent(s), whom you feel you need more than yourself. When you do that, there is a sense in which you do not have a "response-ability" any more, and trying to get that back can be excruciatingly difficult. If you haven't experienced it, then how can you know?

I understand that you're not like that, didn't "do" things that way at 1, or 2, or 3. You may have "chosen" yourself over other people. But the concept of "choice" at that age is a very different kind of thing. Yes, kids that young do "choose" in a sense but based only what is in front of them at the moment, with no possible way to understand what the long-term consequences might be. I didn't have DID but I had a somewhat similar condition (called DDNOS 7 years ago), so how much of what I did was a child's "choice" and how much was the neurological system may be a matter debate, too.

I disagree -- it is NOT easier to let some one else rule our lives. I spent most of my life trying to be a "good person" by external standards and beating myself up when I failed. That's what taking responsibility meant to me -- working hard and beating myself up when I failed.

Since you are not me and don't know me well either, you cannot know my process. It is quite presumptuous for you to think you do. That is not a matter of your opinion being popular or not. It is simply ill-informed.

[growlycat]

I'm trying to understand this thread in general. The only time I ever felt like therapy was giving up my power was when I was in my teens and in a treatment program I did not like. Ever since I've been an adult choosing my own treatment options, I've been in the drivers seat. I understand everyone has different to experiences. Just trying to understand

I hear you, here today. did everything myself my entire life, have worked my *** off...with no help from anyone.

I just ignored the parts that dont relate to me. I can be quite opinionated myself! But can understand why some could take offense. I personally dont because that is not part of my experience, but no one knows that but me.

Originally Posted by growlycat

I'm trying to understand this thread in general. The only time I ever felt like therapy as giving up my power was when I was in my teens and in a treatment program I did not like. Ever since I've been an adult choosing my own treatment options, I've been in the drivers seat. I understand everyone has different to cperiences. Just trying to understand

I wasnt focused in my op. But for me, its about how much i let my therapist affect my state of mind and feel traumatized. Its ok that the thread is about multiple things. Kind of like free association!

Also looking for support though looks like no one understands. Makes me feel more alone in it all. I give up

Starting thinking a out some of these ideas...

Tbought of giving up because no matter how hard i try to look at this differently, i cant choose not to feel this way. The consensus seems to be that we choose our pain. I chose to do therapy but had no idea the end would affect me this way. Having a hard time seeing how im not taking responsibility, my emotions that came out of therapy. If i could go back in time, id choose never to do this. I beat myself up enough for making myself vulnerable, but i thought that is what i was supposed to do. I let the walls down when i should have left them intact, but that part was encouraged. Not sure whu between the 2 of us, e everything is my fault.

I don't know to what extent I had agency in my life prior to starting my most recent round of therapy. I guess enough. I have a successful marriage and career.

I didn't want to give that power to him. Ever. I remember fighting against it. Especially since I knew almost from the beginning of the relationship that it will be short lived. But here I sit, completely dependent upon him. I watched my control over the relationship slip between my fingers. I tried to assert my power to leave, and his "unconditional positive regard" and empathy and his "curious and respectful" approach lured me back in. Now, the idea of continuing this therapy journey without him seems untenable. And I'm so miserably unhappy with the way things are. I don't want to be attached to him. I don't want to care about him. And yet...

[growlycat]

No everything is not your fault. Letting down your guard is not always a bad thing. Therapists can be clumsy and unskilled even when there is no mal intent. Not letting them off the hook, their job is to rise to the occasion.

But we give our power away when we start believing that their knowledge is ABSOLUTE gospel and start blindly accepting everything they say without any scrutiny

We want to feel better so we let ourselves fall into the belief that the therapist knows all and if we just give ourselves over to them they will solve everything for us without us having to put in the work and suffer the pain ourselves.

I didnt do anything of the sort. I questioned a lot, of not most, of what my therapist did. Yet I STILL ended up this way. It's horrible! I am worse than before I started 5 years ago, much worse. I cant seem to grasp how this continues. It is almost incomprehensible.

Originally Posted by daisydid

I don't know to what extent I had agency in my life prior to starting my most recent round of therapy. I guess enough. I have a successful marriage and career.

I didn't want to give that power to him. Ever. I remember fighting against it. Especially since I knew almost from the beginning of the relationship that it will be short lived. But here I sit, completely dependent upon him. I watched my control over the relationship slip between my fingers. I tried to assert my power to leave, and his "unconditional positive regard" and empathy and his "curious and respectful" approach lured me back in. Now, the idea of continuing this therapy journey without him seems untenable. And I'm so miserably unhappy with the way things are. I don't want to be attached to him. I don't want to care about him. And yet...

Do you feel trapped too?

My T didn't give UPR, but effect is still the same.

Originally Posted by Rayne_

Do you feel trapped too?


My T didn't give UPR, but effect is still the same.

To an extent. My situation is unique, so I know there's an end in sight, though I doubt I'll be able to fully disengage when we terminate. I feel like I'm on the world's worst roller coaster and am just praying for it to be over.

But also at the same time I'm mourning the limited time we have left together. That I don't know how I'll go on once he leaves me.

I feel like I'm on the world's worst roller coaster and am just praying for it to be over.

What an analogy, well said.

Im wishing the best for you.

I wonder if you can start with someone else? Sort of like the concept of a rebound relationship. I would try it if i had the financial means but i dont. As my T said, i have crises lines (which i would never call so it's irrelevant in my case.)