[DP_2017]

I know many of you have more "Strict" T's which is probably a good thing but mine shares ALOT of personal stuff... basically anything I've ever asked he has answered and he shared a lot without me asking as well.

The thing is, even though I am not a fan of people in general, because I usually get treated poorly, I care deeply about people that I feel close to. I am really struggling because I have told him I care about him and he is ok with it but I can't hug him when he is hurting or ask if he is ok etc, because of "rules" and it's extremely frustrating not to be able to be the person I've always been

I have had so much internal feelings about this stuff in my mind I sometimes get really depressed and want to quit because I feel I can't be myself in therapy. I don't like how "Rules" dictate how I can feel about someone and who I can and can't care about.

How can I deal with this? And don't say talk to him... he already knows about it, but has provided me with no actual useful advice.

[LonesomeTonight]

Don't really have advice for you--just wanted to say I've been there, too, regarding my marriage counselor. Particularly when I found out about his wife's illness and eventual death (which he hadn't intended to share, despite disclosing A LOT about himself). He told me how he felt like he'd messed up, because the caring was only supposed to go in one direction (T to client). So of course I felt like I was doing something wrong by caring....But he said that no, it was on him, not me, that I wasn't doing anything wrong. So, just commiserating...Just know that it's OK for you to care about him. And yes, it is difficult to get support from someone but not be able to give it back...

[DP_2017]

I just don't get the point of that rule, why can't we be compassionate people? We can still get help. It literally makes no sense to me.

[NP_Complete]

Originally Posted by LonesomeTonight

Don't really have advice for you--just wanted to say I've been there, too, regarding my marriage counselor. Particularly when I found out about his wife's illness and eventual death (which he hadn't intended to share, despite disclosing A LOT about himself). He told me how he felt like he'd messed up, because the caring was only supposed to go in one direction (T to client). So of course I felt like I was doing something wrong by caring....But he said that no, it was on him, not me, that I wasn't doing anything wrong. So, just commiserating...Just know that it's OK for you to care about him. And yes, it is difficult to get support from someone but not be able to give it back...

I don't get this at all. I can't turn off caring about another human being just because I pay them to talk to me. We're both people sharing a relationship. Do therapists really think we can just not care?

[LonesomeTonight]

Originally Posted by NP_Complete

I don't get this at all. I can't turn off caring about another human being just because I pay them to talk to me. We're both people sharing a relationship. Do therapists really think we can just not care?

That's a good question. When it first came up, MC was asking me if I felt I had to be there for him because he was there for me. Like I owed him or was obligated for that (I did mention the fact that we do compensate him for that financially...) I tried to explain that I'm just a caring person, that I'd care if it was happening to, say, a coworker or acquaintance, too. I think maybe he sort of got it? T1 at the time said it's also natural to care about people who care about you.

[DP_2017]

I'm glad I am not the only one who feels like this, I thought I was crazy, it's hella hard. It's the main reason I think of him often, I just always hope he is ok and not hurting etc, it hurts my heart that I can't be there for him sometimes. This is by far the hardest part of therapy for me.

I feel a lot of compassion for my former T. He also shared a lot about himself with me, more often than not without my prompting. When it became problematic for me was when he shared the really heavy stuff. When he shared the emotions about his mother or his own self-critical image. I'm a caretaker by nature, and I felt bad that I had burdened him. That I in some way wanted to ease his own suffering.

That's what I think LT's MC meant by that it's supposed to go one way. That they're supposed to feel that way about us, but it's their job to minimize the amount that we feel that toward them. It's not a 100% science, because that dehumanizes us as the clients. But it's also the T's job to manage their countertransference outside of the therapeutic environment.

[DP_2017]

I get that it is their job but it's also unfair to ask people like myself to "hold your emotions" or whatever and just be someone I'm not. It's intensely painful.

Of course its their job to manage their feelings, it's not like mine is sobbing or anything but I know he has gone through some heavy **** lately and it kills me that I can't be supportive. I wish he could see the real me, but sadly I can never be myself in therapy 100%

I haven't really thought of this as much of a problem, but I'm wondering if you are confusing simple compassion with trying to be a support person for your therapist.

I've had therapist lose members of their family. I've had them go through an illness, etc. I showed compassion to them like I would anyone I know on that level: I simply said "sorry for your loss" or "I hope you get to feeling better." I didn't expect them to tell me details, nor would that have been appropriate. And I knew I wasn't going to be their support person; they have other family members, closer friends, etc. who they lean on for that kind of support. They thanked me for the well wishes or condolences, and we moved on. That really isn't any different than I would approach most people. Unless you are a very close friend or family member, it isn't my place to do much more than say a few words and allow the other person to use their more personal support system for whatever talking or needs they have.

[DP_2017]

I guess that's my idea of compassion ya. Saying sorry is more or less care/concern/kindness which I also do.

But yes being supportive to me is a form of compassion

[coolibrarian]

Can't you just say something like, "I'm sorry you're going through this?" Just because you are barred from giving them a hug doesn't mean you can't care about your T. You are a human being, and so are they.

[DP_2017]

Ya I did, you're kinda missing my point though, its HARD for me NOT to be that way, it's who I am.

[Out There]

It's almost impossible to impose boundaries on normal human caring , like it's something that can't happen in therapy and the T is doing something wrong if the client feels it. But my T's both say you have to be careful not to turn the client into your T. And they do have their own resources for their stuff , but we aren't there for them and it makes the relationship unique. I used to ask my T how he was ( like you do ) but then thought he would say he was OK whether he was or not so I stopped. So many of us have been caretakers for others , often at the expense of our own feelings and needs , so it's difficult I know.

[peaches100]

I get what you're saying. It's normal to feel compassion for somebody we feel close to. I don't think the "rules" say we can't feel compassion or care for our t's...but they do restrict what actions we can take to show our compassion.

I understand why t's would not want to go overboard in talking about their problems or want their clients to try to caretake their feelings. But to restrict a client's ability to voice concern, or to be secretive in not telling clients anything at all about their situation when the client obviously knows something is wrong, is taking it way too far, in my opinion.

Originally Posted by DP_2017

I get that it is their job but it's also unfair to ask people like myself to "hold your emotions" or whatever and just be someone I'm not. It's intensely painful.

Of course its their job to manage their feelings, it's not like mine is sobbing or anything but I know he has gone through some heavy **** lately and it kills me that I can't be supportive. I wish he could see the real me, but sadly I can never be myself in therapy 100%

I'm not sure if this was a reply to me or not, because if it wasn't I'm sorry in advance. But I sincerely hope that you're not interpreting what I said as that you should hold your emotions. You shouldn't have to. Your emotions are valid. It's okay that your T brings out the caretaker in you. I'm also a caretaker by nature, and so it wasn't difficult for my former T to bring it out of me. And it was okay for me to feel that way.

My point is that it's the T's job to hold their emotions. It's their job to try to minimize the desire for clients to take care of their therapists. They're literally trained to do it. It's good that he hasn't wept or anything. That's probably when I'd draw the line for ethics.

I don't think they expect or want clients to not care about them. The idea is probably more to keep the focus on the client's issues, keep those as the topic of interactions. I am sure most appreciate compassion from clients unless it is done excessively and used as distraction. Then there are those that actually make therapy more about themselves and infuse the client's situation with their own problems - I had one of those and it was not not helpful but potentially harmful.

I cared about my last therapist as I liked him a lot, but never felt compelled to use my T time to discuss his challenges beyond what was in the context of what I wanted to address for myself. He talked a lot about himself and sometimes I asked to tune it down. He once had a difficult, chronic health issue that he shared with me and I did express good wishes for his recovery several times, which he appreciated, but that was about it. Perhaps wanting to care too much is a bit similar to codependency in relationships where people sacrifice themselves and care on the surface but at the same time neglect own issues and use caring for others as a substitute for self-care?

[DP_2017]

Originally Posted by Out There

It's almost impossible to impose boundaries on normal human caring , like it's something that can't happen in therapy and the T is doing something wrong if the client feels it. But my T's both say you have to be careful not to turn the client into your T. And they do have their own resources for their stuff , but we aren't there for them and it makes the relationship unique. I used to ask my T how he was ( like you do ) but then thought he would say he was OK whether he was or not so I stopped. So many of us have been caretakers for others , often at the expense of our own feelings and needs , so it's difficult I know.

I know, I feel the same, sometimes he will text or email with me and just a conversation starter sometimes I'll say how you doing or how is it going? It usually is always "good or great" which I highly doubt, I know he went through a huge life change recently and when I even asked about it, expecting no real answer, he went into a lot of detail... yet here I am, not supposed to care.... sigh....

We do hug every session but that's for my benefit, however I suppose I can somehow think maybe it helps him too somedays

[InnerPeace111]

I have found a way to express compassion for myself and others through a practice called tonglen. You can read about it here:

https://www.lionsroar.com/how-to-practice-tonglen/

I’m just putting this out here for anyone struggling with compassion because I know how hard it can be. As I say with anything, though, take it or leave it.

[RaineD]

I manage it very poorly. Sometimes it seems I care more about my therapist than I do about myself.

[DP_2017]

Originally Posted by RaineD

I manage it very poorly. Sometimes it seems I care more about my therapist than I do about myself.

me in a nutshell but basically applies to "everyone more than myself"

[ElectricManatee]

Originally Posted by DP_2017

me in a nutshell but basically applies to "everyone more than myself"

For me, that's part of the point of therapy, to learn how to take better care of myself so I don't fall prey to the problems that brought me to therapy in the first place. The whole point of the therapeutic relationship is that it's almost exclusively about me and my growth. I don't have to try to take care of my therapist so that she will be able to take care of me (which is a dynamic from my past). She is helping me understand that it's not selfish to ask for what I need. And she's helping to put me in touch with what my needs are in the first place. I have to trust that she can take care of herself because there wouldn't be enough room for my emotional "stuff" if she hauled her life stressors and baggage in too. It would very quickly get way too complicated.

That said, I do care about my T, and I do express that care when it feels right to me. I talked to her on the phone today, and she mentioned toward the end of the call that she had a cold, so I told her that I hoped she felt better soon. Same thing for other life events that I only knew about because they disrupted therapy appointments (e.g. her needing to care for an injured family member). But I think the difference is that I express my sympathy or concern, she thanks me for caring or inquiring or whatever, and then we move on to my therapy things. She can unpack her feelings or get deeper comfort or understanding from her family/friends or her own therapist because, again, the time we spend together is supposed to be mostly about me.

It sounds like you're a little overwhelmed by knowing things about your T's struggles without being in a position to properly comfort or support him. Maybe it would help you be less preoccupied with your T's feelings if you asked him to hold back some of the personal information. Then you could focus more on what it was that brought you to therapy in the first place.

[WarmFuzzySocks]

It's normal to feel caring and compassion for the people around us, including our therapists.

And it's a good thing to learn how to feel and demonstrate caring in ways that honor the other person's boundaries, whatever those boundaries might be, including therapeutic boundaries.

[Erebos]

And I am once again glad my T has strict boundaries.
As if I don't have enough going on without him bleeding his issues all over our sessions.

[chihirochild]

I have no wisdom to share, but I do have a slightly silly anecdote:

When I saw my therapist a few days ago she had a cough--nothing too terrible, but at one point she started rummaging around in her desk drawers and said something like, "don't mind me, I'm looking for a cough drop so I don't start coughing--once I start coughing I can't stop. Just ignore me." But there was no cough drop to be found, and she managed to carry on.

When I went to see her today I put a few cough drops in my pocket. (Like many of y'all, one of the ways I show affection is to take care of people. I suppose there are healthy and unhealthy aspects of that tendency, but I come from a long line of Carers and it's pretty well ingrained at this point.) She was still coughing, and after letting her struggle with it for a bit, I fished one out of my pocket and offered it to her. She looked surprised and a little bewildered but took it and stuck it in her mouth. Before she could say anything I said, "yes yes, I know--you don't need me to take care of you; you're perfectly capable of taking care of yourself." She smiled. "Did you bring this with me in mind?" "Yes." She shook her head ruefully. "Well, I suppose the fact that I haven't managed to come up with any cough drops in the last three days contradicts what you've said." We laughed, and got back to what we'd been talking about.

So... maybe it's okay to take care of your therapist just a little, as long as you address the subtext dead-on??