[mindmechanic]

If your therapists says something unprofessional and hurtful because she let her feelings get in the way, but later admits her mistake, would you still go back to see this therapist?

I'm having a dilemma. I feel that this therapist and I could possibly work through this. On the other hand, I don't know how fully present, professional, and neutral she can be without letting her personal feelings get in the way. She is going through something difficult in her personal life now. And I am still feeling really hurt by what she said even though she said that she would undo what she said if she could.

[MessyD]

I think it would depend on what it is. I am quite sensitive so if I got hurt by my T it would be probably hard for me to gain the trust back, or it would at least cause some kind of rupture, altough knowing me I probably wouldn't admit to it at first. However, if he would admit his mistake and genuinely tried to fix it and not let his personal stuff get in the way, and I had a good relationship with him otherwise, I would try to work it out.

[Trace14]

Originally Posted by mindmechanic

If your therapists says something unprofessional and hurtful because she let her feelings get in the way, but later admits her mistake, would you still go back to see this therapist?

I'm having a dilemma. I feel that this therapist and I could possibly work through this. On the other hand, I don't know how fully present, professional, and neutral she can be without letting her personal feelings get in the way. She is going through something difficult in her personal life now. And I am still feeling really hurt by what she said even though she said that she would undo what she said if she could.

I doubt it.

[growlycat]

If my t had a good track record in general I’d be very hurt for a long time but I would accept a sincere apology. But if things were not great it could be a final straw for me

[Out There]

I did go back when there were ruptures in my therapy and did well from them , it was partly my stuff too. Good T's understand that if something is going wrong in therapy both the T and the client are contributing to it. But I did want to leave / withdraw because it hits our " stuff " and that hurts.

[Fernwehxx]

I would go back, aware of the fact we're all human and make mistakes. Itd probably take me a minute to gain my full trust back, tho.

[mindmechanic]

Long story short, the therapist has a daughter who gave birth to a premature baby at 25 weeks. The therapist said that she would possibly consider moving out-of-state to help her daughter. Obviously that was very scary for me, and I went on an angry and hateful rant at my therapist. One of the things that I said was how is it fair at 15, 18, or 20 patients lives are going to be affected because two young people decides to shag up and have a baby? She responded in an elevated voice, "Did you think they wanted to have a premature baby?" She also said, "How about having a humanly reasonable response?"

She didn't acknowledge her unprofessionalism until I said how much that hurt and made me sick to my stomach. She said that that was completely unprofessional of her. No apology like I'm sorry. I later reiterated how bad I feel about it and she said that if she could take it back she would.

So that's it - long story short. I also feel like she is withholding empathy. She also asked me if I misheard her that it was only a possibility and that it wouldn't happen until six to twelve months from now. But that isn't the point. The idea of her moving out-of-state was bad enough. She seems to want to work through this with me. But I'm apprehensive about it.

[nottrustin]

I would go back and appplogize for my handling of the situation. T's are human and while in the ideal world they can show no feeling and emotions. However they are human and do have feelings and emotions especially if I were to attack T's child.

[ListenMoreTalkLess]

Most of the time, what people say to us has more to do with them than with us. Other times, and I think your example is one, we can provoke people into responding in hurtful ways. I don't see this issue as about the therapist, I see it as your issue with expressing yourself in the way you described. Rants that are angry and hurtful should be expected to provoke hurtful reactions in people. To me the question is how can you work on expressing yourself in ways that don't provoke others to hurt you-- with this therapist or another one?

[stopdog]

I would only go back if I could find another use for the therapist. I certainly would not apologize. The therapist is paid to keep themselves out of the room. The therapist is paid to keep her personal problems out of the time I pay for. It doesn't matter what's going on in her personal life -they are supposed to be able to handle clients negative emotions emotions without lashing out or retaliation. If the therapist didn't feel like she could control her feelings and emotions over her personal life then she should cancel and take a break.

[tomatenoir]

Originally Posted by mindmechanic

Long story short, the therapist has a daughter who gave birth to a premature baby at 25 weeks. The therapist said that she would possibly consider moving out-of-state to help her daughter. Obviously that was very scary for me, and I went on an angry and hateful rant at my therapist. One of the things that I said was how is it fair at 15, 18, or 20 patients lives are going to be affected because two young people decides to shag up and have a baby? She responded in an elevated voice, "Did you think they wanted to have a premature baby?" She also said, "How about having a humanly reasonable response?"

She didn't acknowledge her unprofessionalism until I said how much that hurt and made me sick to my stomach. She said that that was completely unprofessional of her. No apology like I'm sorry. I later reiterated how bad I feel about it and she said that if she could take it back she would.

So that's it - long story short. I also feel like she is withholding empathy. She also asked me if I misheard her that it was only a possibility and that it wouldn't happen until six to twelve months from now. But that isn't the point. The idea of her moving out-of-state was bad enough. She seems to want to work through this with me. But I'm apprehensive about it.

It was an unprofessional thing to say. But while your therapist shouldn't have raised her voice (and in my opinion, told you any of this stuff to begin with), I think it would help to consider your own response too. I can only go by what you've written in your post, but from what you've said I'm not sure if you're aware of how callous your words come across.

Again, it's not your job or responsibility to care for her, especially as this altercation began because of her poor judgment, but I can't say I'm surprised by her response. You've basically said, "F your s**t of a daughter. F your very ill granchild. I'm the important one."

I'm not sure what you want empathy for? What would you need from her to go forward?

I think asking for an apology for her raised voice or telling you off is fair game. But if you want her to empathise (and I take it, agree with you that she should choose you over her family), I don't think that's reasonable.

[ruh roh]

Originally Posted by mindmechanic

If your therapists says something unprofessional and hurtful because she let her feelings get in the way, but later admits her mistake, would you still go back to see this therapist?

I'm having a dilemma. I feel that this therapist and I could possibly work through this. On the other hand, I don't know how fully present, professional, and neutral she can be without letting her personal feelings get in the way. She is going through something difficult in her personal life now. And I am still feeling really hurt by what she said even though she said that she would undo what she said if she could.

It would depend on what was said and how long I had been seeing her. In your case, I would want to know if she can get past what you had said. I do think it would be hard for anyone, including a therapist, to not react to an attack against their child and grandchild. I have a friend who said the only thing that would ever make her angry with me is if I insulted her grandchild or dog. So to answer your question, it gets back to context and what was said by both of us, as well as the degree of trust that has been built up over time.

Originally Posted by ruh roh

It would depend on what was said and how long I had been seeing her. In your case, I would want to know if she can get past what you had said. I do think it would be hard for anyone, including a therapist, to not react to an attack against their child and grandchild. I have a friend who said the only thing that would ever make her angry with me is if I insulted her grandchild or dog. So to answer your question, it gets back to context and what was said by both of us, as well as the degree of trust that has been built up over time.

Agree with this ^.

Also, I understand your anger but wouldn't chalk this up as unprofessional as everyone has limits or a breaking point. She lost her composure and patience. I think everyone gets a break once in a while. Her child's illness is critical--give her a break.

[atisketatasket]

I don’t understand why the therapist has even revealed this stuff to a client (daughter shacked up (?), lives out-of-state, preemie, even the number of weeks premature). Or why she starts speculating (again, to a client who might be expected to have some kind of emotional reaction at the news) she might move when it’s a) not certain, and b) 6-12 months away. And then isn’t able to handle said expected reaction.

I don’t think you should have said what you said, but I don’t think she should have created the situation either. I would try to fix it if I had found this woman useful otherwise, but I strongly suspect that part of fixing it for her will be tackling what you said and why you reacted as you did with an attack on her family. If you’re not willing to address that, it might be a non-starter. I’d also be prepared for no apology at all from her.

[Out There]

That's a very good analysis and advice for a complex situation @@

[LonesomeTonight]

Originally Posted by atisketatasket

I don’t understand why the therapist has even revealed this stuff to a client (daughter shacked up (?), lives out-of-state, preemie, even the number of weeks premature). Or why she starts speculating (again, to a client who might be expected to have some kind of emotional reaction at the news) she might move when it’s a) not certain, and b) 6-12 months away. And then isn’t able to handle said expected reaction.

I don’t think you should have said what you said, but I don’t think she should have created the situation either. I would try to fix it if I had found this woman useful otherwise, but I strongly suspect that part of fixing it for her will be tackling what you said and why you reacted as you did with an attack on her family. If you’re not willing to address that, it might be a non-starter. I’d also be prepared for no apology at all from her.

I agree with all of this. Particularly about how she shouldn't have speculated to you that she might move. That's bound to affect your relationship. Sure, if she decides for certain that she is going to move, she should tell you and give you as much notice as she can. But until she's decided, she shouldn't speculate to you.

I do think, as ATAT said, you'll need to talk about your own response to what she said and what's behind that. For example, is this a pattern you've done with other people in your life--they've said something that upset you or could potentially hurt you, and you lash out and attack them? If so (or even if it's just about your T), what's behind that? Is it a defense mechanism--like, you're scared of getting hurt, so you try to hurt them back almost? This isn't me being critical of you, just bringing up stuff that your T might want to explore with you.

I've found personally that many of my conflicts/ruptures in therapy aren't so much about the therapist themselves, but something else, often something from my past. I've also found that working these through with the therapist (or marriage counselor, in some cases) has been very helpful for me--yes, difficult and painful at times, and it was tempting to just run away and not come back a couple times. But ultimately, it gave me a sort of practice in dealing with such conflicts without the same sort of risk as in "real life." Presumably, your T is willing to see you again after you made that comment to her, because she knows it's probably not just about her. If it was, say, a friend or relative, they might react very differently and cut you off.

And I've found that, afterward, my relationship with the T (or MC) actually became stronger because we got through the conflict. Now, it could be this is something you won't be able to work through, but learning that can be valuable as well.

[PinkyDoo]

Most likely not. It seems like after something like that, there is always an elephant in the room. You try to pretend it's not there, but it is. I don't think people ever come back from things like that.

[BudFox]

To me this sounds typical human relationship stuff. But in therapy the expectations for both client and therapist are so weird and unrealistic that it gets confusing.

I think if a therapist creates a rupture, and this needs to be worked out in therapy, then the client should not have to pay for those sessions. Seriously.

There is something absurd about having to "work through" some drama created by the therapy relationship itself, adding to the list of problems the client has to deal with. Why bother? The usual answer would be something about "transference" that has no basis in reality.

[mindmechanic]

She asked if I did not hear her say that it was only a possibility and that if it happens, it would happen in six to twelve months. I felt that despite talking about it for two sessions, she still couldn't empathize that it was the thought or idea in and of itself of her moving out-of-state that was troubling - regardless of how soon or far into the future it would happen. If she can't even empathize with this feeling, then how can I carry on to see her? On the one hand, she nodded her head seeming to understand. Then she threw out that question asking if I had misheard her. And I thought she knew me well enough not to take it personally, but I guess not.

I would say that this therapist and I have a good relationship, but things are very awkward now. Maybe it will take some time for things to return to how it once was.

[mindmechanic]

@BudFox: Yes; I'm thinking about not paying for those sessions. But I have a feeling that she would not allow that and say that these are things that we have to work through, and think that I am trying to control the situation.

She has said hurtful things on more than one occasion over the 6 years I've been seeing her. And I have felt my share of miserable over them! So far we've worked through it each time it has happened, although the most recent time (this past summer) it was a pretty big rupture and I ended up quitting angrily via email, but then after some time of pure misery I went back and we worked through that one even and went on to do another really good chunk of work. We've talked about it since and I've realized part of that last bit of work was me actually learning for reals that relationships can be mended and things can be worked through*. My therapy has been all about the relationship, as convoluted as it is, my healing has happened because of and within this weird-***** sometimes crazy-making-in-itself relationship.

*I always used to think ANY time I'd get in an argument or disagreement with someone "They hate me now!" and stuff like that.

[Wonderfalls]

I agree she shouldn't have told you any of this, but I think what you said was cruel, self-centered, and unnecessary. Even in therapy--which is always about the client, of course, we should maintain levels of civilization. Because she is a good therapist she seemed to understand where your reactions were coming from and even empathized with you. I would stick with her and accept a reaction I think is understandable given the circumstances.

[BudFox]

Originally Posted by mindmechanic

@BudFox: Yes; I'm thinking about not paying for those sessions. But I have a feeling that she would not allow that and say that these are things that we have to work through, and think that I am trying to control the situation.

Yep they all say that. Then there is no incentive for her to avoid hurting you, or to repair ruptures as a priority, since not doing either of these things prolongs the process, and that benefits her monetarily and probably in other ways. She could act out endlessly, and you would be on the hook to keep coming and keep paying, in order to "work through" all of it.

[BlueJeans00]

I would leave.
Because they need to go therapy themselves if they goingthrough hard event in there life,before helping others.
Seek a therapist thats willing to help you

[mindmechanic]

Yes; I did let my emotions get the better of me and lashed out. But I think that in the context of therapy, I should have been able to say whatever came to my mind. I even offered to share my double session with a patient who needs the time because I understand how her time may be limited when she had to make an emergency travel out-of-state, and it happened over Thanksgiving. I also offered that she could keep her phone turned on during our sessions until things have calmed down just in case her daughter needed to contact her. @Wonderfalls: So much for me being self-centered? Am I not entitled to having reactions when something that I have invested so much time and energy in - let's not talk about finances - is threatened?