Link between suicidal thoughts and attachment with t?

I have noticed that I do have thoughts of this kind and SH.

Does anyone else experience this when their attachment seems insecure and ambivalent?

I haven't noticed yet with my T, but I had that kind of thing with friends. They give me more attention/they are my friends/anything attachment based at all meant I would I would have more thoughts, have more problems with SH, would get more extreme in every way.

With T it hasn't happpend. Not sure whether that is due to the kind of attachment. But I assume it's due to the kind of boundaries that he ensures there are. But I think it could happen even with proper boundaries, I'm just not sure how.

I have noticed this too, though I haven't seen any studies on it.

Do you mean with other people or yourself?

"Do you mean with other people or yourself?"

Honestly, both.

Before I really worked through some of my trauma, suicidal thoughts and self-harm were a frequent thought for me (not always action, but frequent thought), and I also have a tendency to feel more dependent on my therapist, which stemmed from an attachment issue (also worse before I worked through my trauma).

In thinking through the people that I work with, those that seem to have some sort of attachment issue seem to also have struggles with self-harm and/or suicidal thoughts. I wonder if it is because they both correlate with trauma of some kind? Just a thought.

I am wondering if mine stems from the fear of being abanoned by my t. I feel like if he abandoned me that I would 'die'.

This goes back to feeling terrified of being left as a child and never feeling secure.

There is a terrified, out of control child inside of me and I need reassurance. But because I feel like I cant get that reassurance, I think its coming out in suicidal and SH thoughts.

Could be. Worries about abandonment in early life can often contribute to it happening later. It might be a good thing to bring up with your T!

I have but what I feel I need to be reassured, he cant give.

That sounds plausible and makes sense. It is really difficult to transition from the intensity of session time, and the disappearance of the person with whom you shared that time the other hours of the week. I have no solution, because it often panics me too, especially vacations and I also lose faith in my T and in the whole suspension of disbelief the process requires. It is such a leap of faith to be someone's patient, and then the system seems set up to damage trauma clients simultaneously with helping them. It is a mind game, but with the players really trying to care. It is a crazy enterprise, and does hurt. It is an idealistic enterprise full of many kinds of love, and still it does hurt.

I wouldn't be surprised if there's a link. People with BPD have much higher rates of SH and suicidal ideation. Since attachment is a huge issue in BPD, it would make sense that there may be a correlation between attachment and these symptoms.

Yes...had rupture Sunday with marriage counselor, to whom I'm very attached. SHed that night for first time in...probably 9 months. A couple other times I've SHed have been related to him and pain from attachment issues (a couple other times, unrelated too, but there's a definite correlation). And, up until a couple years ago, I hadn't SHed in like 15 years (since high school), though I think that was partly set off by a particular medication...

Yes, I had been thinking of your recent posts and how the attachment seem to have triggered you so I did wonder if you could relate

This might be a useful article to read:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/28755624/

Thanks for sharing! because of one of my freelance jobs, I have access to an (online) university library, so I was able to find and access the full article. Will read later.

OK, skimmed Discussion--this part is particularly relevant (I'm not actively suicidal, but have had ideations in the somewhat recent past):
"To build a strong therapeutic relationship with a suicidal patient, professionals should aim to use a strong empathic approach to counter the possible feelings of shame and blame felt by the patient (Jobes and Ballard, 2011), provide time for the patient to tell their narrative (Jobes and Ballard, 2011) and be warm and show unconditional positive regard to the patient (Rogers, 1961; Jobes and Ballard, 2011). A person's thoughts of wanting to end their own life and the therapist's attempts to prevent this can create a relationship dynamic that may include control, power, vulnerability, feelings of betrayal and feelings of personal responsibility (Jobes and Ballard, 2011). Therefore, to avoid this power struggle the need for a collaborative and empathic therapeutic alliance is arguably even more essential with suicidal individuals than other individuals."

Yes, I think there is a link. I don't SH but my husband says I am self-destructive in other ways.

I know that attachment issues with my t almost always make me feel worse because they bring up the same scared and needy feelings that I felt as a child. But I believe the reason the attachment is detrimental for me is because my t doesn't use the attachment in the right way to resolve my traumatic issues.

I have, and had, attachment issues with my parents (surprise! surprise!) So when my t encourages an attachment with me, and then wants to explore past traumas where I was in danger or abused, and my parents were not there to protect, soothe, or rescue me, I start feeling the same extreme scared, freaked out feelings I did back then.

The problem is...when I am reminded of those old traumas and feel terrified and in need of rescue/help to stop it, my t is unable to help me. She can't help me because I am feeling the fear and needs of a small child, yet I am a grown adult. Therefore, it is of no use, or even detrimental, for her to prompt those old memories and feelings in my session since we both know darn well by now that she can't rescue me. I am in the same place emotionally as I was when I was a kid, and I need to rescue myself.

Of course, we are not really "in" the old situation, but it doesn't change the "experience" of being in the same situation. It is still just as traumatizing. Try watching a war vet react when they hear a car backfire or they hear fireworks. The fear and emotional reaction don't fit current reality -- they fit the old trauma -- but the experience for the vet is the same.

I guess the t's goal is to re-create that old trauma, but to (hopefully) do it within a safe and structured therapy relationship that, along with imparted coping skills, will lead to a mastering of the situation, rather than a re-creation of abuse and its ugly result. Problem is, it doesn't always work. Therapy can't always provide enough "relationship" or "coping skills" for the patient to move through the trauma to the other side. When that can't happen, it just ingrains the trauma again and again.

Where the subject of "attachment" plays into all this is that the t encourages attachment and gives the impression that they can be depended on at those crisis moments to provide the client with what they need (coping skills, a calm presence, whatever) so that when the "experience" of the trauma happens within the session, this time, there is enough resources for the client to get through the horrible experience without the same desperation and intolerable fear they felt before.

Now comes the BIG IF:

If the therapist does provide what is needed at the time to enable the client to experience and move through the triggered reaction and come out the other side feeling mastery over it, the chances of success are much higher.

BUT if the t has given false hope that they will jump in when the client is obviously unable to manage the traumatic reactions, and then they don't provide enough help to enable the client to master the experience, then both the attachment and the therapist's actions at the time of crisis, have done nothing but repeat the same trauma they are trying to resolve. In that case, it would have been better for the t not to foster attachment or give the client the impression that they have the skills and willingness to resolve the traumas the client brought to therapy.

Where I see that the SUI thinking and SH (or, in my case, feelings of self-hatred) come into the picture is after the therapy has triggered the traumatic experience and the t has failed to manage the process, leaving the client retraumatized. At first, the client may feel intense anger and a sense of being wronged. But within short order, the anger is turned inward and the client begins to feel thoughts such as "I'm a failure and a piece of crap. I don't deserve rescue. I don't deserve to be angry at my t. What I deserve is punishment. I don't deserve to live."

Yes. Especially the last two paragraphs. It's fine while I am in the presence of T (any of the Ts I have had)-but then afterward, the feelings stirred up remain and I am (again) alone with them. And then I feel angry and needy.

I don't usually go to "I don't deserve rescue. I don't deserve to be angry at my T", my go-to is that "I have felt this way my whole life, I still feel this way, and I am going to continue to feel this way. And I don't want to live this way." It is painful.

It is hard to go from feeling supported and safe in the midst of those stirred up feelings to away from that support. I know all the stuff about feeling the T support when I am not with them, but honestly, that is not enough. It is all too easy to go to, yeah, T is there and super supportive for 2 hours a week. And T is generous with outside contact because T does want to help. But 2 hours plus some texts and maybe a phone call is still not enough to bring comfort to traumatized me.

That is why I prefer SE, Brain Spotting, EMDR. Those do not stir up my feelings in the same way. I may have some flashes of memory spark up (more with EMDR than the others), but I don't have the intense feelings of need after a session.

While I continue to see T1, to whom I am very attached, if I ever stop seeing him, I will not enter into treatment with another T who encourages attachment.

And, I think attachment to a T is different from transference. They maybe related, but I think they are different.

This is an amazing post- so insightful. I completely agree.

Extremely well-said, Peaches!!

Several weeks ago, I had a dream in which my therapist terminated me. In the dream I thought I would kill myself. I have not had suicidal thoughts while awake.

Peaches' and kcanoe's posts really speak to me too. Thanks for the notes about EMDR, SE, brainspotting. I am wondering if I should try those or quit therapy altogether.

Altough I had both positive and negative attachment-relational types of therapies with Ts, this one has been damaging to the extent it has a huge impact on my life and future.

My T encourages attachment but also does SE and EMDR. I agree with you that they don't stir up the trauma or at least they aren't supposed to. I could never recall any major trauma so EMDR didn't do much for me. Transference and attachment are related somewhat but I agree they are very different concepts.

I've had some terrible reactions after some sessions with different T's where I would scream and cry in my car because my attachment needs weren't met. I wasn't suicidal but I remember feeling once like I wanted to crash the car. These incidents were always because of my T seemingly disappointing me.