In Session Today: Part IV

I really hope this isn't true

I told her about something bad that's going on with me and I don't feel like she gives a ****. I felt completely worthless and like what happens to me doesn't really matter. I felt like a freak telling her this Bad Thing, and she said nothing reassuring whatsoever. I felt ashamed and alone.

feel free to PM me if you'd like.

Sometimes I like to let things settle before I summarize, and in this case it's a good thing because my driving away take and my dust settled take are pretty different.

I thought it was a light fun not very focused session. It felt more like chatting over a cup of coffee with a girlfriend, except that I was more open about the content of my dreams. I'd been having vivid nightly often graphic dreams of past abuse happening in the future. I shared one of the not-so-graphic dreams, and how shocking and detailed and real it was, and how hopeless it made me feel about the future.

Which got us sidetracked into talking about dating and not dating and many of the things I have avoided even thinking about because it is SO not time for that for me, not even close. She said something about making The List, and I asked, "Do people really do that?" (Apparently, yes.) And it felt like we got sidetracked. I haven't ever made a list about what I'm looking for in a future partner. I mean, I guess after my first marriage, when I met my kids' dad, my list was: Not an alcoholic. But that's not really a list. The conversation was fun and funny and kind of charming in a way.

The lightness was deceptive, or at least it unblocked my thoughts. After several days, I've realized what I came away with from that conversation, things we touched on directly or briefly in passing or sideways:
No more of those particular stripe of bad dreams. Avoiding talking/thinking/processing my fears was making it come out in my sleep. (When am I going to just learn this and talk about sh** when I need to?)
Letting go of the idea of spiritual, no, religious obligations to marriage has left me feeling freed but also unmoored a little, and that's an uncomfortable but okay place to be.
My future isn't really about a list of qualities. It's about who I want to be, and choosing (or not choosing) someone who can support that best version of myself. Which totally sounds like a line from a cheesy self-help book. Yikes.
And, maybe, some deeper acceptance of the idea that what was happening in my marriage was more serious than I've allowed myself to believe or recognize or admit.

Thanks to everyone here who encouraged me to contact my T last weekend. I ended up texting him Sunday night and he ended up giving me one session today and I'll have another one Wednesday.

I had the genius idea to drink 3 strong cups of coffee before I left for the session. Don't know how I thought that might calm my nerves, but I was shaking when I got there...

We talked about some very disturbing memories. Things I have tried not to think about for years. It was good to hear him say that I wasn't a bad person because of things that have happened in the past.
I felt very ashamed about some of the topics we discussed and it was nice to hear that I don't have to be. And on top of that he got up to get me some tissues instead of letting me usually sob all over my sweater when I don't have tissues on me.

Today's accomplishment: Using up *both* of my T's tissue boxes! Granted, both were near the end, but still...More on session later. Mostly about ex-MC (hence all the tissues). Tainted a bit by a financial thing that happened at the end. So trying to figure out how I feel about it all and how to write about it...

T also agreed that I am a ***** in my last session. That didn't feel good.

t says I need to eat more and drink more because when I don't I get paranoid and depressed and socially anxious. he said I ignore it every time he brings it up. he said the parent is starving the child. he asked would I starve boby? no!! never!! so why is it ok to starve yourself? because I don't like myself

Boby needs you healthy. The dislike of yourself and self hatred comes from the abuse. Boby obviously loves you and if he were human, I think he'd protest that you're starving yourself.

First time I have seen my T in almost 4 weeks. I walked in and said "can I have a hug please" he stood up and we had a long hug. I felt he looked like he's lost weight while he's been away. He was not overweight anyway. I'm wondering whether it was an active holiday.
I sat down and I said I am sorry I didn't manage to not email you. He said "It's alright!" And "I was curious about your email on fathers day". I was irritated by his chirpiness. I just looked at him and he said "but we don't have to talk about it".
I was very quiet and finding it difficult to say anything. He asked me what was happening. I said I have found it difficult and I'm frustrated with myself for not being able to talk. T said he wondered if I was angry at him and turning it inwards. I said I was annoyed that he was so jolly when it's been so hard for me. I said I wanted to say "you don't have a ****ing clue". I said it annoyed me he thought the email was curious, but he has no idea what emotions are behind it for me. He said I'm right, he doesn't know how hard it was for me. He said the jolliness is because he is to pleased to see me. I nodded and we looked at each other. He said he liked when I came in and asked to hug him. He said he liked hugging me, and also liked that I came in and asked for exactly what I needed. I said "I missed you". He said "I know and I felt it in the hug". I felt a welling of emotion (I rarely cry so it wasn't evident) and I told him. He asked whether it was sadness. I said I'm not sad but I'm not happy either. He said "Just stirred up?" I said yeah. I said "I'm pleased to see you too, obviously."
I told him about my new supervisor and some problems with my old supervisor (he knows my old supervisor). He asked how I'm going to hold all this. I asked what he meant. He said that I am learning a lot about how to supervise and how not to supervise. He said that one day he can imagine I will supervise so how am I going to hold on to those experiences. I said the same way I held on to my experiences poor therapy and good therapy before I trained. These are felt experiences, it's not the same as learning out of a text book. You don't forget.
He went to the toilet (We had a 90 min session) and I took a sneaky picture of his room from my angle and then I found an animation I had made of a fidget toy I had borrowed as a transitional object. It was a little funny video of the toy moving like a caterpillar and stealing a sweet from a bag of sweets. He liked it and thanked me for it. I told him I called his toy Fidget the caterpillar and the red end is his head. T said that's important to know and he sat the fidget toy up in its caterpillar form.
I told him about dreams that i had both about him and about T1. He highlighted the one where an old teacher of mine called T unethical and overinvolved (in my dream). He said if that teacher is a part of me, what's it saying? I said it's saying we need to keep an eye on things as we always have. He agreed.
I told him about another dream where he and my Dad were kind of laughing together about something and it got onto talking about meeting with my Dad irl and feeling really good about the honest conversation I had had with him. T said "great" in a really quiet, almost emotional voice and he smiled slightly at me. I said "you look proud of me. It might be projection." T said "It's definitely not just projection. I am proud of you and the way you are developing." He said something I can't quite remember about being proud of how committed I am, even when things are difficult or something. I looked down. He said what? I said "I wanted to say, you have been a big part of that". He sighed and said that felt good to hear.
He brought us back to one of dreams about T1. He said he wondered if T1 represented something else in the dream. He asked how I felt in the dream. I said powerless. He asked when else I felt that. I said with my kids. I feel like the dynamic between them is really hard to manage sometimes. We explored that a bit. I said I have trouble telling him about my parenting struggles because he once said to me something praising my parenting skills and I didn't want to shatter that perception. He said i need to trust him not to judge. I said I know I do.
We were coming to the end. I payed him and we stood up and hugged again. I felt him pull me into him this time. It felt good. I said "Thanks for coming back" he laughed. I said "I love you" and he said mmm.
After we hugged I said see you next week. He said "yep, usual time, usual place."

Next session I need to explore his response to the father's day email more. He's obviously a fatherly figure to me so I don't think my email was unusual. I want to know what he thinks about it.

The session was about an emotionally charged issue, and at the end, T said that since next week was July 4th, he wouldn't be in on Wednesday. My immediate reaction was one of dread, and I told him such. So, he took out his schedule book and I now have an appointment another day next week.

I realize the following is a child-like reaction. It was a difficult session, and I was hurt that he didn't just say, when would you like to reschedule next week? --versus-- I won't be in next Wednesday.

Intellectually, I don't have a problem with it. Emotionally, it was really painful and I suspect, but am not sure, that I felt some anger towards him. I suspect this because on the way home, I wanted to text him and say something like, "just forget the appointment next week, I'll just cancel." LOL (this is sooo unlike me) It seems that a part of me thinks he will be negatively impacted by me not being there. It's as if I was trying to punish him for not keeping me and my mental state in mind. And then another ego state thinks, he probably would prefer to do anything else other than be there in session with me. or maybe he was okay with either. Such ambivalence. It's all so confusing.

T Monday. He said he had to grab his coffee and would be right in. I went, sat down, opened my fizzy water, he came in with his coffee mug. He said, "So we each have our respective drinks in order?" I said I did, assumed he did. I said I thought I was either getting a cold or having issues with allergies, but just in case the first, I wouldn't shake his hand at end. He said there was a lot of pollen out. I said yeah, including grass pollen, which is one of my allergies (from testing). T: "Oh, thanks, you just reminded me I had to get gas for my lawnmower." Me: "Glad I could help you with the reminder. So is that $5 off my bill?" T: "Only $5?" Me: "OK, I'll take $10."

Thursday's session came up, and I said I still generally felt OK about what we discussed. He said he was glad and asked if there was anything else I wanted to address from that. I said there were a couple loose ends I kind of wanted to tie up but didn't want to do that right then.

Talked about what I wanted to talk about, I said probably ex-MC stuff, since I'd reacted to it so strongly (lots of tears) last session. He said OK, but also wanted to let me know he hadn't forgotten about the trauma list I'd given him, that we could work on that when I was ready. And he also wanted to work more on stuff with my parents--well, more with my mom--and the influence she has on me. And to possibly do a family tree sort of thing where we trace the roles different people had in my life. Me: "OK, that sounds good, but can we do ex-MC stuff today?" T: "Sure."

I said we'd never discussed the final e-mail I'd received from ex-MC last month because at the time, we'd been dealing with the whole stone thing. T: "Do you have it with you?" I pulled it from my purse and handed it to him. As he read, I stared at the books on his shelf, noting one was "Attachment in Adulthood." I wanted to be like, "Um, have you read that one? Just curious..." but didn't.

He finished reading. I said how it felt like the end of ex-MC's e-mail was basically, "Bye, have a nice life." T said he could understand how I'd interpret it that way. I said it felt like at the end of a breakup, when another person wishes you well. I made some comment about him caring before, and T said, "Do you think he doesn't still care about you?' I said I didn't know. T: "I'm pretty sure he still cares about you, even if he's not seeing you anymore. I mean, he probably doesn't think about you anymore, but." Me: [tears--that comment really upset me, even if it was likely true] "Yeah, you're probably right that he doesn't think about me...He has other people to think about now..."

Talked some about ex-MC's inconsistency with me and how difficult that was, how he'd say we could talk about anything in session (including my transference), then next session say we had to stick to marriage counseling topics. I said that was even if H was OK with it. And that we had discussed transference/other issues of my directly with H there in session. T said how he got the sense that my H was someone who was just often content to sit back and observe. I said yes. He said also that maybe it was easier in a way for H if ex-MC was meeting my needs at the time, like meeting my emotional needs. I said that was an interesting consideration. T said maybe it took some of the pressure off H. I said maybe it did, but then there were also times when H was jealous of ex-MC, which I guess is understandable.

More stuff about inconsistency. T said he wondered if some of what was going on was that ex-MC was dealing with his wife's death during part of it. I said that made sense, plus she was apparently already pretty sick when I first shared the transference with him. I think T was basically saying maybe he was off his game/distracted.

T mentioned ex-MC's possible discomfort with my transference. I said, "Yeah, maybe it would have been different if I was, say, a teen, at least for the paternal stuff." T: "Or maybe a senior citizen. Maybe the fact that you were close to him in age made him less comfortable with it--not that I'm trying to say you're older than you are!" (ex-MC is 12 years older than me). This comment really made me wonder (something I'd already suspected)--is part of why T seems so uncomfortable with my transference partly because I'm close in age to him? (he's 7 years older than me). I could see how either erotic or paternal transference could make him more uncomfortable than if I was much younger or much older. Like I wonder if he was kind of projecting that discomfort onto ex-MC?

At this point, I'd used up the tissues in the box next to me, so I went to get the other one from across the room. I pulled one tissue out, and the last few came with it. I commented on it, and T said, "Uh-oh, guess we can see how much emotion 3 tissues can hold!" I counted and said, "Actually, 4!"

I said I'd had this idea. Did he remember how I said I had this voicemail from ex-MC from a few years ago that was really caring that I listened to sometimes in the past? He said yes. I said I'd checked, it was still on my phone. I hadn't listened to it in over 6 months, maybe closer to a year. He seemed surprised. I said I was thinking maybe I could listen to it in session with him, like to kind of process it?

T: "What would you hope to get out of that?" Me: "I'm not sure, maybe to process some of the feelings around how it felt like he cared so much then, and how that seemed to change?" T: Hm. Me: "Or, I don't know, in some pathetic way, to be like, 'See? He really did care about me!' Not that I think you don't believe that..." T: "Explain to me more why you want to listen to it here." Me: "Because I haven't heard it in a long time and don't really want to listen to it alone? Like I want support with it?" T: "Hm" He seemed to be pushing back so much against it that I sadly dropped the idea. Even though it had been one of my plans for session.

I think we talked about some other ex-MC stuff for a bit. I then asked if he had gotten or was still planning to get consultation about the stone. T: "Friday. My consulting group just happens to meet then--it's about 6 times a year--so I thought I'd bring it up then." Me: "OK, thanks for planning to bring it up." Very curious as to what they say (though also curious as to what modalities the other T's in group use or how experienced they are).

Confirmed Thursday, scheduled for Monday (he said he'd held my usual slot open for me). Went over to pay. Me: "Remember, I not shaking your hand in case I have a cold." T: "I won't be offended." Me: "Don't want to chance getting you sick." T: "I appreciate that."

Then, T: "I want to let you know that your e-mail last week took me about 30 minutes--really, 35--to read and write, so I'm charging you $90." Me: "What? I thought the first 15 minutes were free, then you charged for the next 15?" T: "I thought I'd made my policy clear." Me: "But it was only $45 the other times." T: "We can discuss my e-mail policy more next session." Me: ... I turn to leave. T: "Take care of yourself." Me: You too.

I got in the car and started sobbing, which continued for quite a while in the afternoon and led to a couple e-mail exchanges (which should be free due to their short length--I posted some of them on couch before). I thought at first my reaction was all about the money, feeling he was gouging me, then realized it was probably more about that I felt like I was just a dollar sign to him. Then I realized it's partly related to the fact that we talked about all the ex-MC stuff in session. But as I've thought about it more, I think something from that session--whether the e-mail charge or from earlier in session or both--must tie in to some stuff from my past, like both with ex-MC and childhood, because it felt much more intense than it should have given the situation. Like I felt it in my chest a bit, which I've found tends to be a transference/stuff from my past sign.

LT--

My only comment is, YIKES! I totally feel you on the comment about not thinking about you anymore and then you thinking he has other people now. This has been an actual fear of mine since I became "Attached" to my T. It makes me seriously ill to think of ending. It was kind of mean for him to say that, even if, like you say, it is probably true. It wasn't a very helpful or kind way of saying it. Anyway, you are not alone in your thoughts/reaction to it.

LT, I had the idea that your T didn't want to listen to the message with you because it is a transitional object, a stone from MC. ( so to speak) .

When he told you you affect him, ( it reminded me of Sex,Lies And Videotape), that was him trying to be vulnerable and reassure you.

Here with the message and again with the stone, it is like he is squeamish about how much T's DO affect patients - not sure if it's the grave responsibility or the immense intimacy he flinches in the face of, but it seems flawed/ all too human / nice in a way. He needs to do some growing/maturing imo to meet you where you are.

it seems really apparent to me that this therapist is very uncomfortable with transference. I know it's not something you wanna hear LT but I say it out of concern and care... I truly feel this is a recipe for disaster

and I want to add in that there ARE therapists who are comfortable with transference and attachment problems and are TRAINED to help with them... not make them worse and/or shame clients for experiencing them

What Junk said.

What Echos said.

I sadly agree with the above few posts. I worry the same thing. It will go badly at some point

I want to give this guy some credit too and I don't necessarily think it has to end that badly. He obviously is not comfortable with strong feelings towards himself and might not be the greatest expert on attachment issues but then again, there is stuff I like too. He tries to be consistent and honest and is willing to consult on the stone issue.

I do agree that there are probably much better therapists around to work with all that transference and attachment and maybe one day you will decide to go for them, but in the meanwhile if he is helpful to you, I don't see any disasters happening.

I will be the unpopular poster- although I don’t post much anyway, so I guess it won’t actually matter.

I have followed your posts for a long time, LT. I get that ex-MC hurt you, and I understand your need to process that. At the same time, I think that transference, while it can be helpful to work through, can also serve as a huge distraction. I say this because I experience it. It’s easier to obsess over the fact that our t won’t give us a transitional object or give us unlimited out of session contact (at no cost nonetheless) than to deal with the painful feelings and ways of being in the world that replay in our lives. I think your T is truly trying to help you. As other posters have said to you in other threads- you seem to have these ideas or scripts in your head that you want to play out, and when others don’t fulfill their end of the script, you get upset. That’s understandable- but wouldn’t it be nice to stop the cycle? To truly accept what others have to offer, to really hear what they are saying instead of pushing them to do/say what you feel you need in the moment?

Transference is not limited to therapy. It’s how we interact with everyone, including our spouses, co-workers, etc.

I think your T wants you to work on the trauma that has shaped you, to help you learn a new way of processing in the world, instead of obsessing over him or ex-mc or whatever person is the current “transference” person.

For me, I’m learning that my transference for my T is painfully showing me what I am lacking in my life. It feels awful, so I totally get it.

I just fear you will listen to all of these posters saying how bad your T is and you will move onto another ex-MC who will spend much time appeasing you and your needs of the moment and you will continually be in therapy for the same issue over and over again. And that’s your choice, absolutely, and there is nothing wrong with that if that’s what you feel you want and need. Or you can painfully look at what you can control, what you can change (self acceptance, learning to meet your needs in healthy ways, accepting others limitations and finding ways of meeting your needs beyond what they can offer) and keep pushing forward.

I say all of this with care and hope I didn’t say anything wrong or hurtful to you. I truly understand how painful it all is as I’m dealing with some similar things myself.

I think you just need the right therapist for the job. Therapists have many uses. If you're going on a lovely day hike through a well-lit forest, you can probably pick any one and be fine. If you're planning to scale the Mt. Everest of attachment issues, you really need the best sherpa you can find or you're going to be in trouble quickly.

For those of us doing therapy that uses attachment/transference, it's clear that this T isn't that kind of T. If he needs to consult on something as basic as a transitional object, he's admitting that he doesn't have the appropriate training or skills to do this kind of work. It doesn't make him a poorly trained therapist; it just means he could very easily do more harm than good to somebody who is so keenly interested in working with attachment/transference. I would argue that MC probably wasn't cut out for this kind of work either, given his sloppy boundaries. It's not easy to find a therapist who can do it.

I agree EM

I'd say he isn't bad. He has good qualities. No doubt there but it's clear he us uncomfortable with attachment issues. It doesn't mean see another t. Only if you want to. Just means be cautious going forward. We don't wanna see you hurt. It seems that could happen at some point but who knows

This is just my opinion so I don't want to argue about it, but, while I think the odd response on this thread can be affirming and helpful, this thread was kind of created to give a space to people who want to talk about their therapy without starting a thread (go back to IST 1, that is literally what was written). I think it ceases to be a safe space for people who don't want a debate about their therapy if a debate goes on and on.
And yes I know I responded. But this is just the sense I'm getting now as it goes on into a second page. I'm thinking also of others who might want to post here but worry about being debated in a similar fashion.