In Session Today: Part V

We had a good couple of sessions this week, talked a lot about trust and reasons for distrust and feelings of being valued. I felt pretty good when I got out. Then when I got back to work I got word that something had fallen through, not a huge thing but a disappointment. I feel much more upset by it than I think I normally would. Sometimes therapy just leaves me way more emotional than usual.

First, I told my T I had realized two more things regarding my doctor's visit on Wednesday. One was that there's a few special characters in our language that you can capitalize on the keyboard by pressing caps lock. T apparently didn't know, since he did it wrong in a report to my doctor, which I received since I received all my medical documents. I said something along the lines of 'you know you can capitalize those, right?' and he said he always had trouble with it and couldn't be bothered to google it. I told him to 'press the key that capitalizes all letters' and he said 'oh, the ca... ca... ca...' until I helped him out and told him it's called caps lock.

The second thing I realized was that I had been kind of irritated by one of her questions. T asked what it was. I said she asked about self harm. He said she probably had read that in his report, but I said that couldn't be since then she would have already known that I do it. She probably just read the diagnosis. And that bothered me as well, first she asked whether he told me at all about my diagnosis and then kind of whispered 'borderline' as though it was a horrible thing to say. He said some people set BPD and self harm equal. That she was probably just interested. He asked whether the question had been too intrusive. I said yes, and he said he would have felt the same way. How you might show normal wounds to a doctor, but if they are coming from mental issues it makes things more complicated. It's very intimate to talk about and I barely even know the doctor.
I for some reason also told him about how I upset her a bit.
He asked me what I could have done in that situation instead of answering with the truth, if I had realized the question bothered me earlier. First, I said I could say that I didn't want to answer, but T thought that was quite harsh. Then I suggested saying that I do it, but it's not that bad (we also discussed that she might have been worried that I'd need stitches all the time). He told me that I didn't want to share anything about it, so I shouldn't. I couldn't come up with anything else, so he suggested to just say I didn't want to talk about it.

He then said something about changing doctors being a part of me moving away from the city I grew up in. That triggered me a bit. I got worried he'd leave me. So I sat there and became sad. He asked me what was happening for me, so I told him I felt sad and also that I couldn't close my eyes since then I experienced too many memories coming up.
He told me that he thinks I can manage to not get sad or have memories. That upset me, so I started crying. Probably with a really painful expression on my face since he asked me what was hurting me so much. I answered that it was upsetting to hear I shouldn't be sad and that I felt like he didn't want to talk to me anymore or have me share anything. He replied that of course I can be sad in his room. But that I could change how I react to being sad, how I regulate. He also said it can happen that he's too harsh and I'm allowed to say when that's the case. I continued crying and he offered me a tissue. We discussed how people can contradict themselves and how it was probably confusing me to hear from him that I should not be sad and at other times hear that I should let myself be sad. He also wanted me to focus on my being angry and to feel that emotion but also let go of it.

After a while I managed to look at him, which he seems to most of the time take as a hint to end the session. We scheduled for next week, after that I left.

HWMNBN asked "how did things end up?" or something, and I responded, "well, my mom is visiting and I feel pretty tightly wound." And he said that what he'd actually been asking about was an email I'd sent him earlier in the week about

Anyway. Then he asked me what I had for the agenda. He said he wanted to talk about the date I'd been on, which was no surprise to me since he has this thing about wanting me to be in touch with the fact that I'd like to be in a romantic relationship (though the prospect also scares the bejesus out of me, in part b/c I am so effing sick). I said I wanted to talk about my mom's visit. He asked me to pick which to start with and I said we ought to start with the dates (in my mind b/c I wanted to get that out of the way. God, I hate talking about dating with him.).

I told him about how I went on a date last Saturday, during which the guy proved himself to have a very specific agenda (that being to get in my pants). I told HWMNBN that once I'd figured that out I politely but firmly left, to which HWMNBN said, "good for you" or something. He also, amusingly, said a shocked/empathetic, "I'm sorry" several times while listening to my story about this very persistent guy... a few months ago he said something along the lines of, "guys will say a lot of things to get sex" which struck me as odd somehow, I suppose since he himself is a guy (and is not *that* much older than me--maybe 10 years give or take). Anyway, I also told him about the other date I went on which was much nicer--dinner and drinks with a very irreverent and funny guy who is getting his PhD in engineering--and HWMNBN seemed pleased. I said that the nicer guy and I are planning to go to a jazz club next week. He asked, "did he initiate that?" and I said yes and he seemed pleased again. (I was a tiny bit insulted by that question, I suppose b/c it makes me wonder if he thinks I am socially incompetent and a terrible date... but whatever.) Anyway he said, "that sounds like the kind of guy you should be involved with. A kind person, who is a bit of a nerd--sorry if that's offensive to you [I laughed and said, "not offensive, just accurate"]--who is looking for an actual relationship rather than just someone to be physically intimate with." I agreed.

Then we got to talking about my mom. She's visiting and is like interrogating me about my depression (she herself works in the mental health field). I keep telling her I don't want to talk about it (e.g. "Mom, I love you, but I don't want to talk with you about this," "Mom, I know this isn't what you want to hear but I don't have the emotional energy to deal with your reactions to my mental health struggles.") Her questioning feels intrusive to me... somehow feels like it's less about me and more about her need to enact the good caring mother, more about her need to tell me about her own response to my mental illness ("your father and I were devastated"), more about her wanting to tell me about her own suffering ("I have depression and fibromyalgia and know what it's like to have a lifelong chronic illness"). I was trying to relay this to HWMNBN, about how I feel and about how I wonder if the problem is really my mom or really me. I was also trying to explain how the fact that my parents think that I'm a bad daughter makes me feel essentially bad (even though cognitively I don't believe that to be the case). He, of course, took it to a BPD place and was going on about identity diffusion (e.g. "if my mother thinks that I am bad, then I am bad") which is not how it feels to me b/c I am only like this with my parents and I feel like everyone has a complicated and often regressive relationship with their parents... but whatever. I was trying to figure out how to feel less bad about it. He kept saying that, like, it's okay for me to continue to believe what I believe (e.g. that I am a bad daughter) but that I ought to introduce some doubt into that thought. Also he said that it seemed pretty obvious from the way that I talk about my parents that objectively this is their fault not mine. Still, that didn't feel very satisfying to me b/c what I want is to feel differently about all this.... when he asked me how I felt talking about the stuff with me mother I said I felt hopeless and he seemed surprised for some reason. I was also angsting about how stupid it is that what I want, desperately, is to be cared for and held... but I won't tell my mother about my problems and I don't want her to touch me (like, when she touches me I stiffen automatically before I can make myself not do it... and she's always bugging me to give her a real hug or whatever).

We were just about out of time (actually a bit over time) when he asked how it had been talking with him. I said that it felt a bit unsatisfying, as I often wish that I could come into therapy and feel better afterwards, and that did not happen this hour--it felt like we were in a very cognitive place, rather than an emotional one. He said something like, "you often come here wanting some form of holding from me, is that right?" I said yes, that's what I tend to want. He said that if that is what I want, I ought to say that. I argued that I am not sure if what I want is the same as what I need, that perhaps the thing that I want (emotional containment) is not the thing that will make me better in the long run (who the hell knows what that might be). (I don't bloody know if this is the case or not--I am not any kind of expert in this stuff. But it gets into all this business about whether therapy ought to be a place where needs are fulfilled vs discussed etc etc etc.) He asked me to explain, and I was having a difficult time (I often clam up in therapy with HWMNBN)... and eventually I said, "well, I don't know--if you let a five-year-old choose what to eat for dinner, he'll end up eating ice cream night after night, and then he'll end up missing a whole bunch of vital nutrients. Sometimes the things we want and the things we need are not the same." His response to that was that if what I want has a regressive component to it, then whatever we'll explore it (which was not the point I was trying to make, but okay sure). He also said, "you know that I'm not going to hold you, right?" to which I said promptly, "yes." (This also perplexed me a little b/c I thought we were talking about, like, holding in the Winnicottian sense... I can understand why he would say that explicitly, if not only b/c clarity is a virtue (teehee) but also because I once told HWMNBN how my former pdoc sort of screwed up on that front, and with former Ts I have wished that they would give me a hug or even hold me. Even still, a tiny little part of me wanted to scream, "I DO NOT WANT YOU TO TOUCH ME DUDE I JUST WANT YOU TO BE NICE TO ME FOR LIKE 45 MINUTES A WEEK.") He followed that up with a lot of, "nothing is going to happen so it's safe to explore it" stuff, and also "we're never going to understand this unless we can look at it from the inside." The point that I was trying to make was that I oughtn't ask for something if I don't think it is the thing I need, regardless of whether or not it is regressive or appropriate or possible... but whatever. I told him that I would likely need help asking for what I want/need, and he said that was okay.

Anyway, I was late for group so I left.

Damn this crap is exhausting.

How long does a normal therapist try to pound a "technique" into his client? 3 months or longer would you say? How about 10 years? mmm....that doesn't sound normal to me.

First a recap of Thursday's session so Friday's will make sense. Went back and sat down. I complained about how a car had taken forever to get out of its parking space in the lot, making me almost late. That it was a sports car. Which led to brief discussion of cars and how T's last vehicle was a Jeep Wrangler, which surprised me a bit.

Talked about a conflict with a friend I'd had about some stuff discussed in the previous session about autism. And how I was worried I wouldn't be able to discuss it with the friend anymore. He gave some suggestions on ways I could still talk about it.

I described how I handled the conflict. T said he was blown away by how well I'd handled it. And he'd felt that way about how I'd handled some other relationships lately, too. That I seemed to definitely be making progress in that area. Which made me feel good. He said he wondered if it was different because most of these were online relationships. I said I wasn't sure, that I also talked to local friends over text/messenger, and I think I've handled some things with them well enough. But I think it would be different if the conflict happened when I was face to face with someone, that it would be more difficult to just change the subject if I found it getting tense. Or to step away for a bit. Though I had been doing better with that with H, come to think of it.

I guess we talked about some other stuff in there. I saw we had 20 minutes left and said I was debating which of two things to bring up. T: "Should I flip a coin?" Me: "Maybe...The first is a dream I had that's kind of screwed up." T: "OK." Me: "The other is kind of about the therapeutic relationship." I started tearing up as I said that. Me: "Damn it...I guess that means I need to talk about that, don't I?" T: "Probably."

I said there were a few areas I wanted to talk about. First "prong" was stuff I wanted to know about his son, but knew I shouldn't ask. Or that maybe I could ask, but that I doubted he would answer, and I understood that. Like I wondered if he was higher or lower functioning, if he was in [our county] public schools, if he had an IEP. Like, part of me wants to be able to talk to you as a fellow parent dealing with those things, but I knew that wasn't his role... T said I was right, that he wouldn't answer those, but understood my curiosity.

Then he asked what exactly ex-T had told me about his son. I said, "All she said was, 'He has a kid on the spectrum, too.' No other details." T said how what ex-T had told me, that had to be 8-year-old information, as that was when he'd last worked in the office with her. How it might not be accurate information anymore. I wasn't sure how to respond to that. Because...what? He hadn't denied it at the time I told him.

Second "prong" was more vague, that I'd felt particularly connected to him the past few weeks. He said we'd talked about topics further out in the circle, where our relationship is the center. How they was less emotionality and intensity. Me: "But they were emotional topics for me, ex-MC and D?" T: "I didn't say they weren't emotional. But not as intense as talking about the relationship." Me: "OK."

I said how I kept thinking "Things are good here as long as I don't talk about the relationship. But I also know that's not a good way to think..." He said that avoiding a topic puts a block in the relationship. I agreed. Me: "But I also feel like any of our conflicts or ruptures have been as a result of talking about the relationship. And if things are going well, I don't want to risk losing the connection." T: "But we always become connected again, right?" Me: "I guess." He said it's important to work through those things in a relationship, to know that it survives them. And that working through them makes the relationship stronger. Me: "I guess."

We were out of time. Confirmed next week, went over and paid. Shook hands as he said, "Have a good weekend." Me: "You too." T: "Take care." Me: "You too."

The stuff from the last part of the session started really bothering me later that evening, particularly about his son, so I ended up emailing him. He sent a long response (that he charged me for) the next morning, then offered me a 10:30 session that morning if I wanted it, as he said some of it would likely be better talked about in person. So I took him up on that (and canceled Monday's), partly because some of what he said in the email upset me even more. Will write that up in a bit.

OK, I was going to try to write about the emails without including them, but I'm struggling with summarizing, so here they are (anonymized):
Thursday evening:
Hi Dr. [T],

Two things from today that are gnawing at me. First, you said how [Ex-T] gave me 8-year-old information about your son that might not be accurate anymore. Implying that maybe he's not on the spectrum. Which bothered me, because if that in fact is the case, then I feel like you've been dishonest with me. You didn't challenge its veracity when I shared what she'd said before, so I assumed it was true and have been going forward with that info in the back of my mind. Like feeling, without needing to explicitly talk about it, that you understand certain experiences and emotions I've had on a particular level. Which made feel safer discussing certain things. And now I feel like you're trying to deny that's the case? I do understand and respect your desire for privacy, for not giving all the details. But if you're now suggesting it's completely different, that bothers me.

Second, it felt like you were implying that discussing the therapeutic relationship would likely lead to conflict. I want to feel like anything I bring up with you will be OK, that you'll accept it not talking about threats). I want the relationship to feel safe in that way. I know you say that we'll get through whatever conflicts come up, but I want to think that such conflicts might not even *need* to come up, that we could discuss the therapeutic relationship without it becoming this big thing. I want you to be able to accept and contain whatever I say. Yes, I know that may not be realistic for outside relationships, but...I'm also paying you. So this isn't the same as an outside relationship, it's a professional one. I'm essentially paying you to deal with my feelings, and to generally keep yours out of it. Isn't that basically what the therapeutic relationship is about, what makes it unique?

Addendum sent at 2 a.m.
I want to make it clear that I'm really struggling with this. It's the stuff in the first half of the email that's particularly affecting me. (Though I suppose it all ultimately ties into the therapeutic relationship in general.)

T's response at 8:45 next morning (yes, he charged me for this)--a few things cut for space/relevance:
[LT],

I'm sorry that you're struggling with questions about my son, and you are correct about my desire for privacy. I'm not happy with [ex-T's] choice to disclose personal information about my family to a client...

It seems you've developed a narrative about my son from whatever you heard from [ex-T], and from things I have said about Autism. Based on your email I'm thinking that you've interpreted my knowledge on the subject as evidence towards this narrative. I'm sorry that you've felt deceived by my failure to correct your beliefs; however I was not aware that you had such a robust narrative. Your observation yesterday was, as far as I can remember, the first time you've made that narrative so explicit. I chose to say what I did because I wanted to be clear that your narrative was not necessarily true - whatever [ex-T] heard had to be at least 8 years old... and a lot can change over the course of so much time when you're talking about the differences between a 4- and 11-year-old. I have not shared anything more about my son, deliberately wanting to protect not just my privacy but his privacy as well.

I'm aware that you will probably be dissatisfied that I am not going to share anything more about my son's situation. I am also aware that this is a profound difference from Dr. [Ex-MC]. Hopefully we can talk about what that means to you, and how to best cope with the ambiguity. Your curiosity is completely understandable and I'm quite sure I'd have an interest were our positions reversed. We can talk about how important or necessary it might be that a therapist have actual, personal experience with an issue in order to understand or empathize with a client, as well as how important that had been to you in this specific instance. I would like to hear more about how you are reacting to all of this and what impact it is having on you, but I think that's best shared in person....

You also raised the issue of conflict being likely in the discussion of the therapeutic relationship. At our session I was trying to emphasize that it's not conflict - it's intensity and emotionality. Discussing the issues that arise between two people directly is, more so that other things that can be discussed, likely to be intense and emotional. Conflict can arise because of that, but it's not necessarily going to. I think that discussing the therapeutic relationship is a big thing for you, in addition to the content naturally having intense and emotional impact. You make an interesting statement when you say "I want you to be able to accept and contain whatever I say." This reminds me of other conversations we've had, where I've stated my position that there are things you can say that I may not accept. I'm not sure what you mean by 'contain'. If you mean that I will do my part to have a civil, caring, appropriate, and hopefully therapeutically healing conversation with you than yes - you are 100% correct that you should expect that from me and any therapist. If you mean that I should have no reaction or feelings of my own, than I disagree with the statement.

There is a lot to talk about from your email. If you want to address these issues ASAP I could see you at 10:30am today...

LT-
I applaud your ability to honestly express to your T how you are feeling regarding the therapeutic relationship (I wish I could do more of that myself). I also think your T's email reply was generally thoughtful and non-defensive. Just my opinion from the outside looking in. Thanks again for sharing your story. I hope you had a good session yesterday.

Boy does he ever profit off of provoking insecurity in you. I hope your session at least helped.

Warning, this is really long, and I still feel like I left stuff out.
Bonus T session yesterday. He retrieved me, and I had trouble looking at him as I walked past and sat down. He was wearing his glasses--he's usually in contacts. After I sat, I realized the sun was streaming onto my face and asked if he could close blinds up there, and he did. Then a few minutes into session, the sun had shifted, so I asked if he could close the next one, too (he did). T: "Ah, you're a two-blind client." Me: "I guess so."

I started crying and picked up the box of tissues and put it next to me, noticing it was almost empty. Covering my face with my hand/a tissue, I said that I felt bad about things. T: "What do you mean?" Me: "What I'm expecting of you. It's not fair for me to expect you to share that stuff about your son." I forget what he said to that.

Me (still hiding face, unable to look at him, which is unlike me): "And some of what you said in the email bothered me. Like what you said about the 'narrative,' like I'd just made up some story out of nothing. But it wasn't from nothing. If I'd told you what ex-T had said about you're son, and you'd said she was wrong, then I'd have just put it out of my head, and it would have been nothing. But you didn't."

T: "I'm not saying if what she said was correct or incorrect." Me: ??? T: "She shouldn't have said anything at all." Me: "I know. But she did. And then you didn't say it was wrong. So I assumed it was accurate." T: "Again, I'm not going to say whether it's accurate or inaccurate, just that it was 8-year-old information." Me: "OK." T: "I guess I'd almost put it out of my mind that you'd told me. Because you hadn't brought it up. And until you were talking about it yesterday, I hadn't realized how much it played into things for you."

Me: "Yeah, I guess...I never really mentioned it since then. But I just assumed it was true. So when you were talking about things with autism...I assumed it was partly coming from your personal experience. In additional to professional. I guess it felt like you understood. That it was...I don't know, a connection we had." T: "I can understand that, where it felt like we were going through the same thing, maybe kindred spirits in a way?" Me (crying): "Yes...like that. Like...you were talking to me not just as a therapist but also as a fellow autism parent. And maybe like...I don't know, almost like you might possibly have been getting something out of having that shared experience with me, too. Or something. I don't know."

T: "I get that. But do you feel that someone needs to have experienced the same things as you to understand and feel empathy?" Me: "I guess not. I mean, with ex-MC, with him saying early on that he also had an anxiety disorder, it made me feel like he understood me more. While with ex-T, she seemed all pulled together, so I figured maybe she was less likely to understand me. And I guess I thought the same about you, but then with your son..."

T: "OK. I obviously haven't had all the same conditions and experiences that my clients have." Me: "If so, you'd probably be on a lot of meds..." T: "Right. But I have almost 20 years of talking to people about their experiences. Plus my training. So I feel like I have an understanding of most all of those experiences. That I get it. Without necessarily having to have experienced it myself." Me: "OK, that makes sense."

T: "Plus, if it was something I experienced myself, that can be more different, because I'd be seeing it partly through the lens of my experience rather than just the client's. Say, for example, back surgery. I haven't had back surgery, but if I had, and a client came in who was going to have it, I'd likely be thinking of my own experiences with it and talking about that instead of focusing completely on my client's experience with it." Me: "OK, I see. And I think maybe that was an issue at times with ex-MC and my anxiety."

T's son came up again. I said in a way...it reminded me of the stuff with ex-MC's wife (who I figured out--via a mix of something I overheard, something ex-T said, and a story ex-MC told--was sick), with the uncertainty there, with wanting to know more but ex-MC being reluctant to share, even though he disclosed about so many other things. How it was hard for me to know something was going on but I didn't have all the information. That I understood why he didn't tell me, but was hard.

T said with his son, he was concerned that if he did share about him, then, I'd be worried about him. And to be nice, I'd ask about him in session, and he didn't want me using my session time for that. Me: "It wouldn't just be 'to be nice,' it would be genuine care." T: "I know, that's what I meant, because you're a nice person, you would ask. I didn't mean that it wouldn't be genuine." Me: "OK." T: "Again, I'm not going to say whether he's on the spectrum or isn't." Me: "OK, I know."

Around that time, I pulled out the last tissue. T: "It's OK, they're included in the cost! You're on the Silver Plan here: unlimited tissues!" I said it was a good thing, as he walked across the room to get the other box, which he handed to me (he usually just lets me get them).

We shifted to talking about therapeutic relationship. He reiterated what he said in the email about how talking about it doesn't have to mean conflict, but that it just brings up emotionality and intensity. How I can talk about an emotional topic with him or, say, H, but if I'm talking about just my own experiences, or else an experience with someone else, it's still not going to be as intense as talking about the relationship with the person in front of me. T: "Like you talking to me about ex-MC could be very emotional for you, but it's not going to be as intense as you and I talking about us." Me: "OK, I think I understand."

I tried to explain the "contain" thing from the email. He said that made him think of a container, like, say, a beaker, where I might pour acid in it and just expect it to sit there, unaffected. But he wasn't going to be like that. I said it wasn't that I didn't expect him to react to things I said, more that I wanted him to deal with them on his own time, rather than necessarily with me. Me: "Like...if I got angry at you, maybe you'd feel anger in response, but you wouldn't yell at me." T: "That's what I meant in the email about responding therapeutically and safely. I wouldn't yell at you, but I might tell you how I'm reacting." Me: "OK." T: "Remember, one of my things is to help you understand how people in the outside world might react to things you say or do. If I don't let you know what I'm feeling, that doesn't help you with that." Me: "Yeah, I guess. I just get scared of your reaction and it makes me not want to share things sometimes. Like now." T: "It's always OK to talk about them. We've always worked through it before, right? We've gotten through it." Me: "Yes."

Me: "I guess just sometimes I wonder...therapy brings up a lot of turmoil for me. Like last night, I was awake in the middle of the night crying because I was upset about things with you. Had I not had a session, or I'd opted to talk about the dream instead, I likely would have had a good night's sleep. OK, not good night, as my D was awake, but a better night's sleep." T: "I haven't gotten the sense you've had as much turmoil regarding therapy lately, unless there's stuff you haven't been telling me." Me: "I guess...maybe I haven't told you all of it. Though there was the thing maybe a month ago where I called you because I was upset about you not saying 'I care about you.'" T: "OK, but it seems like since then, things have generally been calmer, and I sort of wondered what had changed." Me: "Well, until this." T: "Well, OK."



Me: "So I guess at times, I wonder...is it worth all the turmoil? Are the gains worth it? Is it all part of the means to get to the end? Or am I just causing myself additional pain?" T: "I can't answer that question for you." Me: "I know...I don't know how to figure out the answer. I mean, I think I've made progress lately. You even mentioned that yesterday in terms of relating to my friends." T: "Yes, I was impressed by that." Me: "But I don't know...I mean, I feel like I drink more on the days I have session, too. Maybe it's partly the topics, but...I feel like that can't be a good thing. I just don't know. And do I need a different T, or do I just need to take a break from therapy in general?"

T: "I don't know. There are a lot of warm and fuzzy therapists out there, if that's what you feel like you need." Me: "I don't know...I mean, at one time I thought I did...but wouldn't I probably just become really attached to them and not want to leave like with ex-MC?" T: "I don't know. But if you want to try one out, I understand." Me: "I don't know...because I also feel like you're helping me. Maybe I need an approach more like yours to make progress."

T: "And know that you don't have to worry about hurting my feelings if you want to take a break, either from therapy entirely or to see a different T for a bit. Remember, I'm not going anywhere. If you walk out the door, I'm not immediately throwing your file in the trash and shutting the door on you. You could come back whenever you would want whether for a longer-term or a single session." Me: "Thanks, I know. I just don't know what to do sometimes. And this would be a bad time to take a break with the holidays coming up..." T: "It's probably never an ideal time." Me: "Yeah...I'll think about it more."

Maybe then or at another point, he asked if this tended to be an issue with me with T's in general, and I said it had seemed that way, with ex-T and ex-MC. That there was a lot of turmoil with ex-MC. How I think some of it for me is dealing with the limitations of the therapeutic relationship. That it's a struggle for me. Wanting the connection and closeness, but then...I mean, I probably can't ever get what I'd want from that because of the nature of the relationship. So maybe would always be a struggle."

Also somewhere in there, we ended up talking about therapy clients (like, not his clients, just in general) with childhood trauma (I forget why). And T said the way I was talking about it, it sounded like I felt that other people's trauma made them more worthy of care than me. And that it bothered him that I seemed to feel my experiences weren't as important. Which felt caring to me.

It was 11:28. I feel like he gave me some sort of final thought, but I forget now what it was. Talked about scheduling, I said would just email him (I ended up canceling Monday and taking Wednesday instead of Thursday, but that's partly because I'm Christmas shopping with my dad Thursday and didn't want to be an emotional wreck).

Went over to pay. Me: "I guess you're charging me for the email..." T: "Yes, it took me some time." Me: "I wish in the future...maybe we could have some agreement that you'd only do a paid response if I asked for it explicitly?" T: "Well, other emails you sent me recently, I didn't get the sense you were looking for a longer response. But this one, i felt like you were." Me: "Yeah, I guess, but then sometimes you've offered me session instead before replying." T: "Maybe I should have done that in this case." Me: "We can discuss more next session. I"m fine with paying now, just for future." Shook hands, as T said, "Have a good weekend." Me: "You too."

Bottom line: I feel OK about the session and about T. Not fabulous, not terrible. He seemed very caring and engaged throughout the session, like he was really listening to me. I'm not making any changes before the holidays (only seeing him once next week to make up for extra session--see, he doesn't get as much profit!!!) in terms of a therapy break, trying a different T, or continuing with my T, but will reevaluate after the holidays. I mean, not necessarily precisely on Jan. 2, but I'll be thinking about it.

LT

I admit I didn't read it all, I am only skimming, I'm too sad to read recaps from others right now... but I know I saw stuff about anxiety again and while my T has never really been insightful, he did surprisingly say something interesting to ponder with anxiety...

"Sometimes, it's a good thing to try and see if the situation has a volume knob rather than a switch" and I was confused and he said "With volume, you can go up/down and stop at many spots in between, with a switch--its on or off" This was in relation to anxiety related stuff I was panicking over.

And no one can decide what is best for you going forward, but I know for me.. No T is the only choice. I can't do this to myself anymore. You kinda gotta decide if it's worth all the added stress and anxiety it causes you or not, good luck

i love your recaps, lt.

LT i like DP's idea of a volume knob rather than a switch, but i would take it a step further. I think my therapy was like the song, "The Lion Sleeps Tonight." Multiple themes playing, some verbal, some not, slipping in and out at different times, all coming together at the end, but no single one defining the therapy, and not clear how each line affects any of the others.

I canceled my session with t for Tuesday

I started harassing him via emails again. so I feel ashamed and worried he's mad. I think it's best to not go. I don't want to wind up in more distress

First of all, I tend to like your T, and I am not being negative about him overall. I just don't think this is his shining moment

He keeps the focus too much on himself, what he will and won't do and it is defensive.

On the other hand, you were amazing, honest and vulnerable. I am keeping in mind it is him to whom you feel you can be so honest, and he is good that way.

T: "I'm not saying if what she said was correct or incorrect." Me: ??? T: "She shouldn't have said anything at all." Me: "I know. But she did. And then you didn't say it was wrong. So I assumed it was accurate." T: "Again, I'm not going to say whether it's accurate or inaccurate, just that it was 8-year-old information."

This is why I think it is more an enactment than therapy- his final comment here should have been exploring you, what it all means to you. Instead he doubles down on his own issues.

There's no sense of the mystery of otherness here, the wonder of other people and the need to listen, explore, keep myriad theories open ended to learn experientially in this comment. He is really needing authority , even though you came in apologizing and trying to appease him by saying you asked for too much( which you didn't)

T: "OK. I obviously haven't had all the same conditions and experiences that my clients have." Me: "If so, you'd probably be on a lot of meds..."
T: "Right. But I have almost 20 years of talking to people about their experiences. Plus my training. So I feel like I have an understanding of most all of those experiences. That I get it. Without necessarily having to have experienced it myself." Me: "OK, that makes sense."

Through this post, it is like role reversal- you are validating him, you are listening, you are putting his perceptions first over your own, and you are very insightful .

He is not validating, empathizing, intervening, exploring, attending etc.

T: "Plus, if it was something I experienced myself, that can be more different, because I'd be seeing it partly through the lens of my experience rather than just the client's. Say, for example, back surgery. I haven't had back surgery, but if I had, and a client came in who was going to have it, I'd likely be thinking of my own experiences with it and talking about that instead of focusing completely on my client's experience with it.

This is wrongheaded Imo. Substitute csa for back surgery. He is too uncurious, and too comfortable right here. You talk about SH and SUI- that is not a correlative of back surgery and is dismissive/ invalidating .

I like how he supports your freedom and agency to stay, leave or find another T, and there he DOES explore with you- is it just him, is it other T's , whys. . . He is great there and not defensive like about his son.

I think this is where T's say I am human too.

My big sense is his son is a trigger for him, and it is more about that than about you in this episode.

LT,

I've mentioned before that I have a kid on the spectrum. If I was conversing as frequently and intimately as you do with your T, I would expect that he would tell me if I was under a mistaken impression. People who don't have kids on the spectrum do not know how hard that situation can be - only another ASD parent won't bat an eye if I talk about my son throwing scissors at a teacher and getting expelled (this was years ago). Other parents ask stupid questions like "Did you teach him to throw scissors?"

Your growth in dealing with these types of situations is improving so much.

I know others sometimes criticize your T - but I've always really liked him because it's clear that he is trying to learn how to effectively communicate with you and NOT treat you like ex-MC did - which caused a lot of turmoil. (I had my own personal version of your ex-MC in my life and the best thing I did was move on).

I agree that this wasn't his shining moment.

Thanks, I do feel I'm able to be more honest with him--including in person--than I was with ex-T or ex-MC. And that's something I really need to work on in outside relationships, so it's good that I can practice it in there.

I definitely think there's some sort of enactment thing going on here, like something from my past--but I'm not quite sure what specifically. I did mention that to him in session, how I thought maybe this was coming from someplace else and wasn't just about him. But he just sort of looked puzzled. I also think there's some transference and countertransference going on here--it seemed like the stuff about his son triggered him in a way. I mean, maybe it simply triggered his protectiveness as a parent, but it felt like something else.

In thinking about it more, I wonder if, in the conversation about autism in a recent session (Monday?) where I felt really close and connected to him--maybe he felt somewhat close and connected to me, too. And that freaked him out and caused him to pull back and be like "Maybe my son isn't on the spectrum after all." Because I definitely felt something different from him that day--like he wasn't fully being "Dr. T" in that session, that more of [T's first name] was coming out.

Yeah, he seemed a bit defensive there. I got his point--someone can be a good T and be understanding without having experienced every exact thing that a client has. But it also seems a bit arrogant to suggest he really understands those conditions/experiences, as he only knows what clients tell him--he's not in their heads. I'd almost prefer if he could be more like "I admit that don't understand everything, I want you to help me do that. And I'll do my best."

I think he was intentionally NOT using a psychological issue/experience here, because he likely didn't want me to speculate on whether he had or had not experienced that particular thing. Because then I'd want to know more about it, most likely. There was another session where he made some comment like, "I'm not going to tell you what psychological issues I've personally dealt with" (I think this may have been in relation to me talking about ex-MC telling us in one of the first sessions that he had an anxiety disorder). So I don't feel he was being dismissive of my issues, more that he didn't want to use a similar example, so he was trying to go off in a different direction.

Yes, I do really appreciate that he supports whatever exploration I need to do about him being the right fit for me or not. Yes, I know this is what a T should do...but he seems particularly open about it and not defensive. With ex-MC, when we had the rupture a year ago, it seemed like he was trying to convince us to stay and work through things. Plus the whole "working through the transference" stuff. (He also said I should go back to ex-T and work through my maternal transference for her with her...) And we kept going for longer than we probably should have (though less often), I think in part because of that.

I do get the sense his son is a particular trigger for him. As are some other things about his personal life (like if he's going out of town, he refuses to say where he's going or even simply if it's personal or business, and seemed very bothered when I was curious--ex-T and ex-MC were always forthcoming with that). Yet he randomly mentioned his wife having ADHD a couple different times fairly early on in seeing him (he otherwise only rarely mentions his wife). And this was before I mentioned H having ADHD.

Thanks, it helps to hear that. The thing is, it does feel like T understands on a deep level what it's like to parent my D. It really feels like it's coming from a place of personal experience and empathy. He just...kind of changes when he's talking about autism or listening to me talk about experiences with D. He seems softer, more empathetic. I'm not sure how to explain it, beyond it just being a different vibe I get from him, something in his eyes and face. It seems that he just gets it. Which, along with his not denying it when I said what ex-T told me, is why I just assumed that his son is in fact on the spectrum (and honestly, I still think he is).

Wow, the cluelessness of some people is amazing...

Thanks, that's nice to hear.

Yes, it seems like my T is really trying to learn and help me as best he can. Has he messed up badly a few times? Sure. But, as you said (and as he's said), I think he's trying really hard to not replicate the mistakes that ex-MC made. He's trying to look out for my best interests. Maybe that means he isn't going to say the exact words "I care about you," even though I wish he would. But I can tell the caring is truly there, in his being so careful and thoughtful about certain things with me. Is he the best-equipped to deal with my various issues, particularly attachment and transference stuff? Yeah, probably not. But he seems to be trying to learn from and listen to me. And I think that's a really important quality in a T.

And sorry you had your own version of my ex-MC. I thought he was what I wanted and needed, and he clearly wasn't. I sometimes wonder if a big part of the reason I'm doing better now is in part that I'm away from him...that he was holding me back.

Does it matter where his empathy comes from? It seems to me that the important factor is how you experience him in those moments, not what might be happening in his personal life which might make him empathetic. I think this is a clear example of you looking externally at him at the expense of looking to your internal life and emotional experience. Of course, he should be smart enough to redirect you, but he sounds too ham-fisted to be able to practice with the kind of subtlety which that approach would require.

I read you being pulled between wanting the removed and linear approach of your current therapist and craving the emotional connection of your previous therapist. You will often say that you benefit more from working with your current therapist, and yet a lot of your session analysis reads as you trying to re-write his intentions, feelings and approach. He shows you a clear and reasonable boundary - he won't discuss his son's medical issues - and yet you see this as evidence of his triggers, counter-transference, in fact anything more emotional than an appropriate professional barrier. He is relaxed about you looking for another therapist because he has very little emotional or personal investment in you. He is being professional, for better or for worse.

I don't intend any of this to be confrontational, I just wanted to feedback how I read some of your postings.

well i asked t to talk on the phone instead of meeting in person

this is after I told him I'm canceling

I'm so dumb

why does t put up with me. I'm such a nuisance

I do appreciate the feedback. I feel like this is so much what I want (ex-MC) vs. what I need and what will ultimately help me (current T). I desire an emotional connection but know that a more boundaries professional one is like kept better for me. Maybe it’s a battle between child and adult parts? I don’t know. But I feel like T’s approach will ultimately benefit me in the end. As I feel like it has lately. But then there’s that part of me that wants him to be like “yes I’m also the parent of a kid on the autism spectrum, so I understand in a way that I couldn’t clinically.”

And I think he does have some investment in me, but he also realizes that my needs are what is most important. If he truly cares, as I feel he does, he wants what is best for me, even if that involves a break or a different T.

LT, from the last couple notes I have the same impression as before a few times. I personally really like your T's style but he overdoes it at times and these were some of those times IMO. That extensive discussion about how he would not tell you about his son does sound annoying and unnecessary even for me. I think there would be much more respectful and satisfying ways to settle that without having to become warm and fuzzy or self-disclose. It's like when people say "I have a strong opinion / would have a lot to say on the topic but am not going to tell you". I do agree with creating narratives though via extrapolating and fantasy whether the reality matches that or not. Have you ever thought about becoming a private investigator? Just kidding

Maybe a therapy break would not be such a bad idea at some point, if for nothing else, to see what happens and self-assess the details of how you would cope with it? I imagine it would be a bit like some sort of acute withdrawal, at least initially. Your T does not tend to let you experience that because he always eventually responds and often offers you emergency sessions. Mine were similar in that sense so I could only create it for myself when I took breaks and eventually quit for good. For me that was the best decision I believe, but breaks might be useful just to learn more about yourself in ways you generally would not want to? I don't know, I don't think you are I have enough similarities for me to make good enough suggestions, just an idea.