[Lrad123]

I’ve posted about this before (multiple times, I think) so it’s obviously something I’m still trying to figure out. I’ve mentioned before that my T doesn’t disclose too much and this is related to my thoughts about that.

Towards the end of our session yesterday, after a bit of silence, my T asked what I was thinking. I said I noticed he had a pile of books stacked in the corner and said he should get a bookshelf for them. He replied that he doesn’t need to display his books for everyone to see. I sort of playfully but a bit sarcastically said, “no, then you’d be revealing something about yourself and you wouldn’t want that, would you?” He said he doesn’t want to influence me with his likes and dislikes etc, because he wants me to be able to say whatever I want. I said, “what if I went on and on about how I love cats and you hated cats but didn’t share that with me? That seems almost a little dishonest. I mean, while I was gushing about cats, you might be thinking about how you can’t stand cats and it seems honest for you to share that in some way.” He said that he could appreciate my love of cats even if he doesnt like them, basically implying that there would be no reason to tell me about his dislike of cats.

I’m just a little confused by this interaction because it’s one that would really only happen in therapy, and not in the real world. In the real world, I assume a friend would have no problem chiming in about their dislike of cats and I wouldn’t be offended by that. I understand that we’re all different. But in therapy, his goal, I guess, is to keep me from knowing his likes and dislikes so that I’m not affected by them. I just think that creates distance and I somehow feel a teensy bit offended that he thinks I wouldn’t be able to express a viewpoint about something different than his. I just think I would benefit from him revealing a little bit more about himself. It might even allow me to be more open and vulnerable because the relationship would feel less lopsided. He says I can always ask, but I wish he’d offer it up freely. It feels like I have to beg and that’s no fun. I know he’s not going to change, and I do like him. I’m just trying to make sense of this.

[DP_2017]

I feel for you. I personally couldn't handle this T. I NEED that connection. Thankfully mine gives alot of himself to me in that sense. We've gotten to a place where we accept differences and still are honest about them. It's helped me tons with comfort and trust. I've never been a fan of T's who stay so rigid. Not every client benefits from that. Many "rules" of therapy are assuming that all clients react and respond the same to things so I'm not a fan of most of them.

That being said, I've no good advice to you. You are brave to stick with this T. as I said, I could not. You just have to accept this part of things the best you can. Keep talking about how upsetting and difficult it is for you. Best of luck with things

[Echos Myron redux]

I feel like he shows me who he is in his interactions in the therapy room. I feel like I know him well without having biographical information about him. There's more to knowing someone than knowing facts about their life I think. I personally would find it offputting if he brought too much of his unrelated thoughts and experiences into the room.
This is clearly troubling for you though, and I think it's probably something that is useful to discuss in therapy with him. Is it the power dynamic that troubles you? If so, what other ways are there to explore the power dynamic and reduce its discomfort for you?

[ElectricManatee]

Therapy is about you, though. He's basically standing back to make as much space for you to be you as he can. If he jumped in with his opinion like a friend might, then you aren't getting something from him that you couldn't get from a friend, right? For me, therapy is about being able to hear my own voice for once without a lot of outside noise. What do I think? How do I feel?

I have had the experience once or twice of my T sharing something I didn't find interesting or helpful, and it's frustrating to sit there listening to her talk when therapy time is already so limited. Plus, maybe there are things about her personality or her life that are complicated or that conflict with my values (maybe not her feelings about cats, but important things), and it wouldn't really serve my purposes in exploring myself and my worldview to have to deal with something about her that I find disquieting.

That all said, I think it's worth talking to him about this. I'm guessing you have good reasons why you want more self-disclosure from him, especially since it keeps coming up. Why is that? Do you want to feel closer to him? Are you frustrated by the power differential, that he knows a lot about you and you know very little about him? What are you dying to know and why? I have found that my need for extra information about my T (mostly through extensive googling) dropped off to almost nothing once I started to be able to trust her and our relationship and the care I feel from her in session. It wasn't really about needing to know her favorite color or her blood type after all. So maybe this is the same kind of thing for you.

[LonesomeTonight]

I understand this. And I used to think I wanted a lot of self-disclosure, like ex-marriage counselor gave. But that ultimately caused some issues, like I think all his disclosure about his kids (and things like how he helped them with their anxiety) contributed to my paternal transference.

In general though, I think it's partly to keep the T's stuff out of your therapy. To use the cat example, what if he did tell you that he hates cats? Then you might feel like you can't gush about cats anymore, so that would stifle some of what you're talking about. Now, if T also loved cats, I think that might make sense to share.

My T avoided revealing his political views for a long time, including after I shared mine, to the point that I wondered if he could have had opposite views (I'm avoiding saying the views so I don't offend anyone or turn this into a political debate). But then recently, he said, in an example about why he doesn't disclose certain things, that he has a client with opposite political views to him, who strongly supports a particular politician, and T has a boundary that he won't get in debates with this client about it. That the client can talk about his views if he wants, but T won't get sucked into a debate. This made me realize that T does share my views, which made me feel a bit relieved. But, if he didn't, then I can understand how it could be awkward to know that.

OK, one last example. My daughter is on the autism spectrum. When I told ex-T I was going to start seeing current T, she was like, "Oh, he has a son on the spectrum!" I waited for current T to disclose this, as I talked about my D, and he didn't, so it felt like he was being a bit dishonest, and also that it would be something we could connect over. Finally, after a month or two, when we were on the subject, I told him what I knew, and he was a bit bothered she'd said anything, but was glad I'd told him.

I said part of me wanted to ask him a bunch of questions about him (I ended up only asking his age, which he answered, and he showed me his photo on his desk). But then I realized...wait, what if I find out his son is lower-functioning, compared to my higher-functioning D? Would that make me censor what I'm saying about my D? Because I'd be worrying he might be thinking, "Well, at least she's verbal!" or something like that, thinking I'm making a big deal out of nothing? So I've refrained from asking him any more, even though I'm curious (from something he's said, I get the sense he is fairly high-functioning). But I do like knowing his son is on the spectrum, because it is a connection, something we have in common, and it feels like he gets it more when I talk about stuff with her than a T who had no personal experience with it.

So, I completely understand what you're saying and feeling. But I also understand why it can be good for T's to be careful about what they do and don't share, because it could affect the therapy. And also because I've been on the other side, where *too* much was shared. Still, I think the T should be human and at least give a little sense of themselves, which my T does.

[feileacan]

When I think about when I speak to someone and that someone expresses some liking about something then I typically don't really think about how I like that thing. If someone tells me that he likes cats then I'm more than happy to talk to him about his cats without really considering if I like cats or not - that just doesn't seem relevant to me at that time. I imagine that in therapy it is little bit like this for the therapist - if he is focussed on your liking to cats than his own likes or dislikes are not in the forefront of his attention and he may not even remember that he himself doesn't like cats that much. Because his personal opinions are just not that relevant at this moment. I can even imagine that when you ask him if he likes cats then he might even have to think a bit to find his own likings again to come out from the intense focus he maintains on you.

Also, I personally feel the more useful self-disclosure comes with being together with the person - seeing/sensing how he reacts to you, how he responds to you, how he understands and interprets the things you say to him. Compared to that, factual information really gives very little info about the person imho.

But I also think that you should discuss all that with him ad nauseam until it all starts making sense to you (I for instance return to the question of why I am in therapy and what my T can possibly offer me regularly at least once a week).

[nottrustin]

I agree in certain issues especially "smaller" issues like the love of cats. However, in bigger issues I could see it being a problem.

Ex: being Cathic is a large part of Emdr T's life. She does not normally disclose any of her faith or parts of her life to most clients because of what that might mean to her clients. She loves working with LGBTQ clients she does not judge them or try to change them. She completely accepts them for who they are and their lifestyle. If she were to tell clients this or public state that she is a christian she would alienate many clients and people she would hope to work with.

She only told me because during my initial appointment I mentioned that my faith was a huge part of my life and a source of strength for me.

[Anne2.0]

My observation on this board is that transference in the client and a lack of self disclosure by the therapist (or maybe it's not this exactly, because posts are not necessarily the same thing as people having these issues, as in some clients may not be thinking about/concerned about one or both of these things) seem to go together. It is also my impression that at least one person's postings about these issues have changed over time, as the transference has lessened, the T's self disclosure has increased.

I think the client's desire for self disclosure (or not) is a legitimate issue for therapy and the standard advice on this board to talk to the T about it is a good one. But I wonder if rather than non disclosure causing transference to be more problematic, if it is the other way around, that clients who have transference or who a T might judge to have transference issues or a core focus on the T or the relationship-- that the T chooses in this context to deliberately not disclose much.

Just as in other intimate relationships, my relationship with my T has grown over the years and his limited but frequent self disclosure has as well. While it may not be the case that a T would feel more open if the client were more open, to me this approximately friendships or romantic relationships. In general, if I share more of myself with a person, they share more with me. That's part of what makes my relationships strong.

So it occurs to me that a client could choose to focus on their side of the room and see how the relationship changes. Not saying there is anything wrong with having a discussion with the T about it, but sometimes just sitting on a longing and doing something more central to the the thing, like really bringing it from their side of the room and observing what happens on the other is useful.

Maybe I'm different than most people, but sometimes just sitting with a longing in therapy has been useful to me. I have a heightened sense of myself while I'm there and can observe whether the longing changes. Maybe it's a form of self-experimentation, but therapy has also been a place where I can test whether what I do influences what the T does.

[PurpleBlur]

Originally Posted by Lrad123

I’ve posted about this before (multiple times, I think) so it’s obviously something I’m still trying to figure out. I’ve mentioned before that my T doesn’t disclose too much and this is related to my thoughts about that.

Towards the end of our session yesterday, after a bit of silence, my T asked what I was thinking. I said I noticed he had a pile of books stacked in the corner and said he should get a bookshelf for them. He replied that he doesn’t need to display his books for everyone to see. I sort of playfully but a bit sarcastically said, “no, then you’d be revealing something about yourself and you wouldn’t want that, would you?” He said he doesn’t want to influence me with his likes and dislikes etc, because he wants me to be able to say whatever I want. I said, “what if I went on and on about how I love cats and you hated cats but didn’t share that with me? That seems almost a little dishonest. I mean, while I was gushing about cats, you might be thinking about how you can’t stand cats and it seems honest for you to share that in some way.” He said that he could appreciate my love of cats even if he doesnt like them, basically implying that there would be no reason to tell me about his dislike of cats.

I’m just a little confused by this interaction because it’s one that would really only happen in therapy, and not in the real world. In the real world, I assume a friend would have no problem chiming in about their dislike of cats and I wouldn’t be offended by that. I understand that we’re all different. But in therapy, his goal, I guess, is to keep me from knowing his likes and dislikes so that I’m not affected by them. I just think that creates distance and I somehow feel a teensy bit offended that he thinks I wouldn’t be able to express a viewpoint about something different than his. I just think I would benefit from him revealing a little bit more about himself. It might even allow me to be more open and vulnerable because the relationship would feel less lopsided. He says I can always ask, but I wish he’d offer it up freely. It feels like I have to beg and that’s no fun. I know he’s not going to change, and I do like him. I’m just trying to make sense of this.

as the transference builds, you MAY very likely be influenced by him...

i am learning my t's first language and I still have no idea why, lol. before i met her i hated this language. so its definitely because of her...

[PurpleBlur]

Originally Posted by Anne2.0

but therapy has also been a place where I can test whether what I do influences what the T does.

And have you found that what you do influences what your T does?


Sometimes I wonder this very same thing...

[WishfulThinker66]

i am on the side of the poster who reminded you that therapy is about you and not about your therapist.

I think it normal to wonder about your therapist, their interests, and their life away from the office. Some need to set up boundaries for whatever reason though and we need to respect that. It is their choice whether they divulge things about themselves not ours. You might have to readjust your expectations about that. You don't need to know all about them to be successful in therapy. I realise this is a difficult thing to accept but I am pretty certain that the more you concentrate on your needs the more positive will be your therapy. I think it fair to explain your difficulty this presents to you. A good therapist would acknowledge this and encourage you and coach you in some manner to get past this.

[coolibrarian]

I've been with my T for a long time. In the beginning, she barely disclosed anything. Her boundaries have loosened over the years, and she let me know some things about her; also, we have some mutual friends. I also do my fair share of googling her, and she knows this.
Since her cancer diagnosis a few months ago, she has been open to anything I've asked her. My therapy is about me, but part of that is her experience of cancer, her procedures, treatment, side effects, prognosis, and that sometimes we have to change my session schedule (every 2 weeks), because she is having a procedure or treatment done, after which she needs to recover and rest for a week or so. These interruptions in my therapy schedule do affect me, and we talk about that. We've talked about my fears and her fears, and she knows that I'd want to know if something drastic happened. Some of these discussions have been extremely hard, at least for me; my T seems pretty relaxed in session, although she confirmed for me that she had "some moments" at home: being stunned at first, etc.
I don't know if she is as open with her other long-term clients, but I can see that she is being this open with me because of my issues with neglect/abandonment/attachment, etc., issues and fears. She said I can ask her anything, even things of a private/personal nature, and I've asked a few questions about those things, albeit I was barely breathing, whispering, almost crying, and feeling embarrassed at the same time.
This is a very complicated experience for me. Sorry for rambling.

[maybeblue]

Therapy is by design an unnatural relationship. The focus is supposed to be on you the client. The therapist should not put him or herself into the relationship unless it benefits you.

One reason is that it is a distraction. You only get an hour. This is an hour when you get to be and should be selfish. The conversation should be about you and why you are in therapy. It shouldn't be about the therapist's personal life.

Another reason is that it can really foster dependence and attachment. And I'm not saying that those are always bad, but they can be very harmful and hurtful to the client.

It can block things that you want to talk about. Using your example, you love cats. If your therapist hates them or has a phobia of them or whatever, you might stop talking about them. But what if you really need to, like one of them is sick and you are worried? Now you have to decide if you talking about your cat is going to trigger your therapist.

Small amounts of self-disclosure can help build the relationship. I felt happy to find out that my therapist was a liberal. If she had not been though, it would have been a distraction because I know I'd have felt the need to argue with her. And it would have decreased my trust in her.

A safer way of building the relationship is through empathetic listening...really trying to understand where the client is coming from rather than the therapist always trying to compare her experiences with the client's.

[ScarletPimpernel]

My T rarely discloses any information about herself. I had to explain to her why I wanted to know her favorite color. I also wanted to know if she believed in God (because at some point she wants me to talk to her about my religious issues). She said she will never tell a client about her beliefs. She said that even if she doesn't believe in God, she understands the concept and can still help. I haven't talked to her yet about my issues because of this.

I do not find that the amount of information she shares about herself is related to my level of attachment. I'd be extremely attached even if she answered every question I had.

[Anne2.0]

Originally Posted by PurpleBlur

And have you found that what you do influences what your T does?


Sometimes I wonder this very same thing...

I wish I could say, yes, of course! A million times and here are five specific instances.

I have a general sense of a mutual influence, a very modest one, on occasion but can't really put my finger on anything concrete.

[Rive1976]

Therapists are like actors. While they are acting they are still themselves in some way. It just comes through. So maybe he is just a very private person.

[MoxieDoxie]

There has been no time for my T to disclose much about himself. We get a lot of work done. He has disclosed things as it relates to something we are discussing but nothing that is over the top.

I have a lot of affection for my T and if he disclosed any issues or problems in life I would want to take care of his feelings and shift the session to him. This has happened with my last T. He told me way to much and session sometimes was half about him. He did turn out now to be a platonic friend and we talk to each other over the phone every couple of months but when I was seeing him for therapy, therapy was not happening anymore for me.

I do not want my T to be a robot or a blank book. I need to see his flaws, I need to see he struggles like the rest of us but at least has his stuff together as to take on my pain and sit with it during session.

I wonder a lot about how he finds the time to answer all my emails and call me between sessions when I am struggling. I mean he has a practice, a wife, kids...........I do not have all that on my plate and I struggle just to make it through the day and get trivial things done. If he disclosed how busy he was and how overwhelming it was then I would feel so guilty for always being needy and I would hold back, suffer alone, and not progress.

[Lrad123]

Thank you for all these responses. They have really given me something to think about. It’s interesting to hear about experiences with T’s who disclose too much and I guess I don’t want that. In fact, I’m not even sure that I really need to know all that much about him. I do know that he’s a decent, caring person without knowing concrete details about his life. As I think about it, it might have more to do with the power differential. I think I feel uncomfortable being the center of attention and with him knowing all these things about me. I’ve said before that I’m independent in my real life, and I’m suddenly in a situation where I care what this person thinks and I’m not sure I like that and I’m not sure how it happened. It feels unnatural and scary. Part of me would like to shift some of the attention to him. I guess I should talk to him about this.

[BudFox]

In my experience, therapist non-disclosure undermines trust, safety, and healthy relating, just as it would in any relationship.

In any other context, the behavior of OP's therapist would be considered anti-social and would arouse suspicion, not trust.

Just because therapy is "all about the client" does not magically change the realities of human interaction.

The more something departs from a model of basic healthy interaction -- openness, mutual honesty, authenticity, etc -- the more it ought to be questioned in my opinion.

I think OP's concerns are valid and precisely the right concerns.

I too felt an unhealthy level of exposure. At gut level i knew it was unhealthy, but squashed these feelings in favor of therapy orthodoxy that was preached to me.

[blackocean]

Originally Posted by LonesomeTonight

My T avoided revealing his political views for a long time, including after I shared mine, to the point that I wondered if he could have had opposite views (I'm avoiding saying the views so I don't offend anyone or turn this into a political debate). But then recently, he said, in an example about why he doesn't disclose certain things, that he has a client with opposite political views to him, who strongly supports a particular politician, and T has a boundary that he won't get in debates with this client about it. That the client can talk about his views if he wants, but T won't get sucked into a debate. This made me realize that T does share my views, which made me feel a bit relieved. But, if he didn't, then I can understand how it could be awkward to know that.

My therapist confessed he doesn't like a certain 'politician' and his 'friends' when I expressed upset about him. I really appreciated that because it made it easier for me to trust him. If he didn't disclose that and wouldn't do so if I asked, I would get paranoid that he does support this politician, and I would terminate over that. I think therapists should be honest about these things, at least if they are asked about them, if it is important to the client to know this info.

[nottrustin]

[QUOTE=PurpleBlur;6261472]And have you found that what you do influences what your

T and I had similar political beliefs and neither of us voted party lines. We on occasion would briefly discuss politics. One time we were talng about our local election. She had no clue who she would vote for. I told her about a friend of mine, what she stood for and about her personality, and why my family adores her so much. T told me she would vote for my friend because of what I told her politically and because I thought so highly of the person. She would be voting for my friend and offered to put a lawn sign up for her.

[JaneTennison1]

I can see why a T wouldn't tell you stuff. I love writing, it's a real passion of mine, if my T told me she didn't really care for poetry or stories then I wouldn't share these with her and we wouldn't have the discussions we do. So I appreciate that, that being said if a T wouldn't even tell me basics like if they had a pet or not I think it would make me crazy.

[Lrad123]

Originally Posted by JaneTennison1

I can see why a T wouldn't tell you stuff. I love writing, it's a real passion of mine, if my T told me she didn't really care for poetry or stories then I wouldn't share these with her and we wouldn't have the discussions we do. So I appreciate that, that being said if a T wouldn't even tell me basics like if they had a pet or not I think it would make me crazy.

Yes occasional disclosure about little things creates connection, I think. Earlier this summer my T didn’t answer a question I asked about whether or not he had a pet and this felt distancing to me. Several weeks later he did answer after we talked about it again and that was nice. He actually recently said if I ever *really* want to know something and it’s important to me he will tell me.