[Waterloo12345]

For context:

I'm in pyschodynamic psychoanalysis therapy 2/3x a week for a year now, CPTSD has never been openly acknowledged, (she doesn't do diagnoses, she treats what she sees, and I'm in the UK where one waits for a year to see a psychiatrist and there is little to no treatment available on the NHS anyway so I've forgone seeking a diagnosis), and we are kinda doing parts work some of the time.

My t is away for 3 weeks so almost 4 weeks between sessions over Christmas and New Year.

My young parts are kicking up a stink - major major fear of abandonment.

My t has been flexible re boundaries - essentially I can email in extremis with a flexible interpretation of what is in extremis. But if she thinks I'm taking the piss she'll read but not respond. Her responses are always short with a reminder that we'll discuss next session. And she responds v quickly. So all good and was catering to need for major reassurance and thus no abandonment. This has been going on for about months. (Before that I didn't trust her so no real issue!)

A couple of weeks ago I went through a very very bad patch and thought of calling her. I didn't because I've never ever called her (first), and it was the middle of the night- she's off and needs to sleep I know rationally.

Unfortunately, a part decided that it wanted to be able to call her when in extremis like that and asked in session. She said no.

Reasons were she'd already shown a lot of flexibility and what I wanted was unconditional love when even babies need to developmentally grow and get used to not having needs meet immediately. Distress tolerance is something I need to learn. And she's on holiday.

My reaction to this is that I am well pissed off at her, am like why now, am like, I don't need to practice this now when she is gone for 4 weeks. My young parts hate her, refused to interact in session today (mature I know), don't believe she will come back, and are scared if it happens again what to do. She says go to hospital. Am like I hate hospitals.

Rationally as I say I see the unreasonableness but if I were governed by rational thoughts I wouldn't be in therapy.

So my query is how do I fix the fear of abandonment when she won't cater to the need for unconditional love?

I ask because grown up me is not (or at least not yet -
don't catastophise!) capable- I've tried the talking to small selves, trying to soothe them, and they are like you can't even take care of yourself, so how you going to keep us safe???? And are not having it. And they have a point.

So what do I do? As I say I acted like a bratty truculent child in sesh today which was a waste of time (didn't plan to; just happened) so, because I know she's not backing down I need to do something, and we've only got 1 sesh left before the break. Helpppp!

[nottrustin]

Honestly what I do is ignore the young parts and keep very busy. I also get angry with EMDR T when I am struggling and convince myself I don't need her. I shut down. Right now it is the only way I can cope.

[Waterloo12345]

Originally Posted by nottrustin

Honestly what I do is ignore the young parts and keep very busy. I also get angry with EMDR T when I am struggling and convince myself I don't need her. I shut down. Right now it is the only way I can cope.

Ditto on the shutting down and convincing self don't need her! Just worried what will happen.wjen that cracks!!

For me the prob with keeping v busy is my default is freeze and dissociate so I just lie on the sofa but it may be a plan to try for next few weeks to DO THINGS esp since on holiday.

Maybe your right just stop.thinking it to death and just do.

I feed her booze and Pringles til she's feral, so you could try that.

[Waterloo12345]

Originally Posted by SorryOozit

I feed her booze and Pringles til she's feral, so you could try that.

Lol - just ate a full huge family pack of Bombay mix - does that count

Eta: interesting yours goes feral. Mine goes to sleep from over satiation. Which is why I do.it. well adjusted moi?

Originally Posted by Waterloo12345

Lol - just ate a full huge family pack of Bombay mix - does that count

It's an entry level achievement, but you can use the next four weeks to improve.

[Waterloo12345]

Originally Posted by SorryOozit

It's an entry level achievement, but you can use the next four weeks to improve.

[Waterloo12345]

Least you guys have cheered me up. Is not really all doom and gloom!

[Elio]

So far, I've come to the conclusion that "fixing" my younger selves isn't about fixing anything, its about coming to a shared way of working within the system so all can be heard and felt cared for so... practice and time? This all sounds good and everything, my younger selves haven't/don't believe adult me either. I do think things are getting better there. I am trying to get my younger selves to trust adult me by listening more often to the things that they are excited about when I can and acknowledging without justifying the things they are upset about. I try hard not to rationally or logically talk to these parts about what they are upset about or what they want (the whys). I try (and this is taking practice and I'm far from successful at it) to hear them and let them have what they can have.

I am sorry that your T is not allowing the phone calls in moments of distress. If she has a separate office phone, perhaps she would allow you to call and just listen to her greeting? My T uses a cell phone as her office phone so that didn't work out too well for me.

So my query is how do I fix the fear of abandonment when she won't cater to the need for unconditional love?

I think there is also a part of getting to the place that not getting something you feel you need from someone doesn't mean they don't love you. (yep another thing I have to get to)

I'm sorry this is hard for you. Vacations/holidays suck. I'll be 2 weeks, missing 5 sessions. The longest I have gone without seeing her for the last 2 years has been 7 days and that was only once. Usually the most we go is 5 days as we also do video visits. As of now, that won't be happening this break.

[nottrustin]

Originally Posted by Waterloo12345

Ditto on the shutting down and convincing self don't need her! Just worried what will happen.wjen that cracks!!

For me the prob with keeping v busy is my default is freeze and dissociate so I just lie on the sofa but it may be a plan to try for next few weeks to DO THINGS esp since on holiday.

Maybe your right just stop.thinking it to death and just do.

That is my default too if I dont have commitments. So I make plans with others so I cant back out.

[chihirochild]

Holy heck do I wish I knew the answer to this. No bloody idea. Call me up if you ever figure it out?

[Waterloo12345]

Originally Posted by Elio

So far, I've come to the conclusion that "fixing" my younger selves isn't about fixing anything, its about coming to a shared way of working within the system so all can be heard and felt cared for so... practice and time? This all sounds good and everything, my younger selves haven't/don't believe adult me either. I do think things are getting better there. I am trying to get my younger selves to trust adult me by listening more often to the things that they are excited about when I can and acknowledging without justifying the things they are upset about. I try hard not to rationally or logically talk to these parts about what they are upset about or what they want (the whys). I try (and this is taking practice and I'm far from successful at it) to hear them and let them have what they can have.

I am sorry that your T is not allowing the phone calls in moments of distress. If she has a separate office phone, perhaps she would allow you to call and just listen to her greeting? My T uses a cell phone as her office phone so that didn't work out too well for me.


I think there is also a part of getting to the place that not getting something you feel you need from someone doesn't mean they don't love you. (yep another thing I have to get to)

I'm sorry this is hard for you. Vacations/holidays suck. I'll be 2 weeks, missing 5 sessions. The longest I have gone without seeing her for the last 2 years has been 7 days and that was only once. Usually the most we go is 5 days as we also do video visits. As of now, that won't be happening this break.

Thanks for this. I agree it's not about 'fixing'. I think because I 'know' it's not that easy and am upset a bit of me was being facetious.

But practice and time- arrrggghhhhh. I need the cure by Wed (My next session ) and she uses mobile too.

But avoidance aside I do agree with your approach and I am trying to put it into practice esp listening and giving what I can.

For example the other day I wrote to my accountant with lots of non red heart emojis cause little me wanted to. (I added a neutral explanation so he didn't think I was hitting on him!). It is slowly slowly. Just seem to have fixated on this issue.

But I think key for me is getting to that place you mention about knowing there can still be love even if I'm not getting everything I feel I need. That's why I 'hate' her (my t ) now- kind of a pre emptive strike cause little me think she doesn't love me if she doesn't let me phone her.

Thanks again

[Waterloo12345]

Originally Posted by chihirochild

Holy heck do I wish I knew the answer to this. No bloody idea. Call me up if you ever figure it out?

Sure - only transfer first to my special bank account $ 200,000 and the answer will be yours!

[Anne2.0]

Originally Posted by Waterloo12345

I've tried the talking to small selves, trying to soothe them, and they are like you can't even take care of yourself, so how you going to keep us safe???? And are not having it. And they have a point.

This piece of it seems like a relationship problem between you and the youngers. You've tried talking, but have you tried listening? Tell me more about why you think I can't take care of myself-- yet here I am with a roof over our heads and food in the fridge and I manage to get to therapy every week, etc. Tell me more about what you would need to feel safe besides T, as she is only around 3 hours/week or whatever as it is right now. Tell me more about what I can do to help take care of you.

I was astounded at my younger self when I offered the opportunity to listen to what she had to say. And I tried to relate to her in other ways, offering to play together, read together, do puzzles etc together. I think if you build a stronger relationship or change the nature of the relationship between you all, it definitely helps.

I don't think I understand what you mean by they "have a point." Little ones are most definitely capable of understanding that you can't always have what you want, especially if it involves another person.

[susannahsays]

Well, I don't know what you should do, but I can tell you some things I've tried that definitely haven't worked. These weren't really in regards to the therapist, but other stuff that was wanted (sweets, to go to bed instead of studying, stuff like that). I usually get cranky at some point and nice(ish) Susannah turns into mean, abusive Susannah. I usually tell them they're bad girls - that's a staple. I dig around for bad things that happened in childhood and tell them those things happened because they were bad girls and if they don't stop [insert problem behavior], maybe it will happen again. Recently, because of the season, I've threatened to cancel Christmas, give them coal, etc. At best, that gets me a few minutes of quiet, then all hell breaks loose and **** hits the fan.

So yeah... if you crack, try not to be like mean Susannah. It will only make things worse.

Hang in there. ♡

I think your T will try to be more generous given the break. She will likely try to give you something to hold onto so you can internalize her presence at least in part, so there can be some containment while she's gone.

I agree with others to not focus on fixing parts. They will integrate, so try to accept them and step back and observe yourself 'growing up' alongside T. Setting limits is caring-it will help you achieve your potential one day.

I feel jealous because my T wasnt that giving, but ideally, this is how it would work in this this type of therapy.

[TrailRunner14]

Not sure if this will be helpful or not, but I have a part of me that steps in and takes care of things when stuff gets hard like that.

It’s the part of me that runs. I think it’s like someone else suggested about being busy.

It doesn’t help the feeling of the little one wanting to be “there” but for me it gives strength for the little part that there is someone there, in that place, if that makes sense.

That sounds really weird but I don’t know any other way to say it.

[Waterloo12345]

Originally Posted by Anne2.0

This piece of it seems like a relationship problem between you and the youngers. You've tried talking, but have you tried listening? Tell me more about why you think I can't take care of myself-- yet here I am with a roof over our heads and food in the fridge and I manage to get to therapy every week, etc. Tell me more about what you would need to feel safe besides T, as she is only around 3 hours/week or whatever as it is right now. Tell me more about what I can do to help take care of you.

I was astounded at my younger self when I offered the opportunity to listen to what she had to say. And I tried to relate to her in other ways, offering to play together, read together, do puzzles etc together. I think if you build a stronger relationship or change the nature of the relationship between you all, it definitely helps.

I don't think I understand what you mean by they "have a point." Little ones are most definitely capable of understanding that you can't always have what you want, especially if it involves another person.

Thanks for this. You may be right. There seem to be so many issues to deal with that I've not really engaged with them fully of late or maybe at all on the listening front. I think we came to a functional agreement, almost a holding pattern and then I parked them. And now expect everything to be fine.

Even using that language, which is what came into my head, shows me that there is a dysfunctional relationship.

I used to do really useful active meditation or getting to know the littles but this was outside in a garden in the summer and I've not really found a new place to do it now it's cold, dark, wet.

I need to come back and transcribe all the points from this thread - put them in a list I can go reflect on.

On the 'they have a point' thing I was referring to my belief that I can't take care of myself. But as you point out, I am increasingly working, I remained solvent on my savings, I continued to volunteer, Im working hatd to get better, through there are many areas of improvement but that is my perfectionist, protector part talking. He can be so subtle sometimes!

Thanks

[Waterloo12345]

Originally Posted by susannahsays

Well, I don't know what you should do, but I can tell you some things I've tried that definitely haven't worked. These weren't really in regards to the therapist, but other stuff that was wanted (sweets, to go to bed instead of studying, stuff like that). I usually get cranky at some point and nice(ish) Susannah turns into mean, abusive Susannah. I usually tell them they're bad girls - that's a staple. I dig around for bad things that happened in childhood and tell them those things happened because they were bad girls and if they don't stop [insert problem behavior], maybe it will happen again. Recently, because of the season, I've threatened to cancel Christmas, give them coal, etc. At best, that gets me a few minutes of quiet, then all hell breaks loose and **** hits the fan.

So yeah... if you crack, try not to be like mean Susannah. It will only make things worse.

I'm sorry you're struggling too. It's very difficult isn't it. I'll try for all our sakes - safe hugs

[Waterloo12345]

Originally Posted by octoberful

Hang in there. ♡

I think your T will try to be more generous given the break. She will likely try to give you something to hold onto so you can internalize her presence at least in part, so there can be some containment while she's gone.

We talked about a plant that I could nuture over the break. She won't give me one of her own but wanted me to bring one in to a session so it becomes ours and the therapy spaces and then I take that away to have over the break.

I got mad that she would not give me one of hers, yes v v mature, and was just generally mad at her as above, so am currently ignoring it and cutting off my nose to spite my face.

Crikey writing that out makes clear how silly I am being.

[Waterloo12345]

Originally Posted by TrailRunner14

Not sure if this will be helpful or not, but I have a part of me that steps in and takes care of things when stuff gets hard like that.

It’s the part of me that runs. I think it’s like someone else suggested about being busy.

It doesn’t help the feeling of the little one wanting to be “there” but for me it gives strength for the little part that there is someone there, in that place, if that makes sense.

That sounds really weird but I don’t know any other way to say it.

No I think I get you I think I was/Am too ruled by my inner critic/protector part so have not really identified a string part that steps in in a good way. I do do things but it's in a dissociative haze.

So when the other poster wrote that they organise things to keep busy I know that my MO in the past has just been to not go, drop out, I don't really envisage anything I MUST go to so I could not understand the utility.

But perhaps that is what is lacking, a part that steps in and takes care of things in a mindful way.

Much to think about. Thanks.

Time.
It's not until you've had plenty of experiences of T coming and going that this changes.
My first year with T I spent a whole session sulking.
My anger was boiling.
Now yrs on her breaks are a nice thing. I enjoy the free time. And I'm secure in myself that she's still there.
It's as our adult self grows that the healing happens.
Takes years. But it happens bit by bit.

[Lemoncake]

I think maybe start with the fact that the inner child doesn't need to be fixed per se. John bradshaw has an awesome series on youtube called Homecoming that I would really recommend. It was simple stuff like imagining yourself as a child and telling yourself that you were safe and wanted. He also says to write letters with your non dominant hand and just scribble anything and everything that comes out and write replies back to the child you.

There were also a few meditation videos that I tried- I really liked the one by Louise Hay.

P.s Like the other poster- I think this is the first time that I'm not freaking out about my T leaving. I've been seeing him for 2 years and after 5 holidays I know that he will come back. But I remember feeling so scared that first week he went away for a week and feeling that he would realize that his life was so much better without me in it.

Would you also be open to seeing another T whilst she was away? It won't feel the same, but it acts like a safety net just in case you need it.

[Waterloo12345]

Would you also be open to seeing another T whilst she was away? It won't feel the same, but it acts like a safety net just in case you need it.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the suggestions; I'll look them up - good thing I am not going anywhere for Christmas getting better is like a full time job itself.

On the 2nd t - I would not be averse but luckily my doctor has stepped up to the plate. I know the days he's off for Christmas and I can see him whenever, not for therapy obvs but a chat, a look in, a bolstering, just to see someone who knows the story.

[Waterloo12345]

Originally Posted by Jessica11

Time.
It's not until you've had plenty of experiences of T coming and going that this changes.
My first year with T I spent a whole session sulking.
My anger was boiling.
Now yrs on her breaks are a nice thing. I enjoy the free time. And I'm secure in myself that she's still there.
It's as our adult self grows that the healing happens.
Takes years. But it happens bit by bit.

Gives hope