I love him/I hate him. Most of us have been through it. I see it all the time in myself and on the forum and it has almost become comical do me. We have the most wonderful sessions with our therapists in the world and come home absolutely dripping in hearts and warmth, saying, "I am so connected." Next week T does something we don't like and all of a sudden there is that all familiar post with lots of %#@&#! and %#@&#! included in it. Wait a second-- didn't you just say you loved him? Some time passes-- Your therapist is your hero again.

So far this has been a two year, four month pattern with my T. I don't see the gray, I don't see the solid connection. Some may say that based on my posts I am incredibly connected to my T, but at this moment I feel like he is a ghost. There is no internalization. The other day we were on the phone and I said I felt no connection; he said he did feel one. I was so frustrated.

Is this going to be the cycle forever? I can't handle the constant love/hate feelings towards him. This is way too emotionally exhausting.

We had a phone session on Monday. I asked him if I could call him between Monday and Saturday if I was having any problems. He said that was fine, of course. I haven't called because I just don't give a %#@&#! right now. What's the point?

I don't love him or hate him right now. He's just a ghost.

[Mouse_]

yep!

[Perna]

ConfuseUs say: Do not forget forest when looking at individual tree.

[krazibean]

yep. one of my therapy goals is to be able to live with blended emotions and learn that you can love someone but also hate someone at the same time. right now i just don't understand that concept.

[sunrise]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
I love him/I hate him.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">
Pink, I have seen you write that so many times, and some others here too. I don't know what the solution is. As someone who is studying to be a T, do you have any insights on how people/clients who feel that way eventually resolve it?

I do not feel I hate my T, nor have I ever, nor do I cycle between love and hate and wanting to swear at him or throw rotten vegetables at him. I have been angry at him a couple of times, and frustrated a few more than that. We worked it out, but it has not dominated our therapy and does not occur frequently.

I tend to see things in a thousand shades of gray and have always considered that somewhat of a flaw, because it can make decision-making difficult and at times impossible. (I can endlessly see all sides of a story, and am able to sympathize even with those who don't deserve sympathy, like husbands who are emotionally bereft, and abuse and cheat on their wives .)

I don't know why some people see too many nuances and some people tend to see in black and white. Somewhere there is a middle ground... I don't know if there are therapeutic techniques to get people to move to the middle ground. My T gets me to try to make judgments and stick up for myself and stop seeing the other person's point of view to the exclusion of my own. I don't know what T's do to try to get the sees-the-world-in-black-and-white person to come into the middle, but they must have some strategies!

I also see people here write sometimes that they don't know how to feel more than one emotion at a time about a person. I also tend not to experience that. Relationships are complex, and in keeping with my seeing the world in too many shades of gray, I can feel a dozen or more emotions about a person. I'm not sure that is really helpful, because then I often end up not knowing, "what do I really feel?" and have to sort through the many conflicting emotions and try to understand which ones dominate at any one moment.

Maybe the black/white world view is not so bad? Maybe it can be useful at times? Aid in decision making and knowing how one feels?

From reading your posts over the months, pinksoil, I find your T very insightful. Have you asked him what he thinks about the black and white world view and whether it is something that one should try to "fix"? I would be interested to know his answer! And also the love/hate thing? In his experience, do clients who love/hate him ever get over that and move toward middle ground? Do people who feel that way toward their therapists tend to experience the same love/hate toward other people in their lives? If so, maybe it is good for them to experience that love/hate toward the T, because then they can try to work out a general relational issue in therapy?

[vulnerome]

Surely it is a GOOD thing that he has become a ghost to you...

If he has become a blank canvas that you do not care about and whose opinion does not matter to you then I would imagine it would be much easier to progress.

Hopefully this will not be a "forever cycle". Black and white thinking can be extremely damaging. The world is not defined in black and white, but infinite amounts of grey.

I have learned the lesson this week that things do NOT have to be "I love you forever and always, completely" OR "I hate you", they can be "I love you", "I care about you", "You hurt me" without taking it to the extremes of black and white. A world of black and white can cause such a roller coaster of emotions. You need to allow yourself to be ok with the grey of the world.

I've learned this through talking with my therapist who is retiring soon about emotions of love and her not saying the words anymore. If you do not love me, you hate me. Which is not true. She loves me, but not at the complete end of the spectrum of "I love you and I can never leave you". You learn to be OK with the grey, with the ability to be flexible with the emotions.

This is such a struggle for me because in my childhood you were either the good child, or the bad child, you were loved or hated. There WAS no inbetween.

As for the connection. Connection can exist on a scale as well. I always imagine it like a dance with my therapist. At first we started out as people on opposite sides of the room, slowly coming together. Some days, we dance hand in hand, sometimes I am clinging to her and need to be as close to her as possible. There are times I am still connected but am only "touching" her fingertip to fingertip. The connection exists always though sometimes it may not be as close as you need...

I hope this makes sense! I have a cold and my head is kind of foggy. LOL

I know you are doing analysis with him, but maybe DBT might be beneficial too. Maybe you could facilitate a DBT group at work to force yourself to practice the skills?

As you know it's helpful for lots of different issues. Or just plow through the workbook? See if any of it resonates with you.

Or maybe CBT? I am an expert on cognitive errors cuz I use them every day.....duh me.

I guess I'm looking for some more immediate help for the more immediate pain.

Take care, Campy

[MissCharlotte]

(((Pinksoil)))

I don't know, but ghost feels different than black and white. It feels much more in the middle.

Yeah, you have had the love and hate swing for 2 years. He's there, he's not there, etc. But has he ever been a ghost before? What is a ghost anyway? You know, a ghost is not gone nor is he here. But a ghost can become someone or was someone. So, in a weird way it feels to me like this ghost feeling you are experiencing is a good thing! I think it is a sign of progress. T as a ghost could well be on his way to being .

Yes, a ghost is definitely neither black nor white.

xoxoxoxoxoxoxoxo

Peace

pink, i don't know there can be a solution at all... but certainly any solution will be much harder until you have the meds worked out. You have bee through the wringer with meds, give yourself and your T a bit of credit... i mean, how can you gain emotional consistency when the meds are constantly beating on you?

i don't know what will work med-wise, i hope it eases up because i firmly believe we can't swim strong enough to battle the current of our hearts along with the current of our minds (ie the meds).

you know my plan... i'm going to go med-free for a while. Not recommending it to anyone but i'm throwing it out there. After 2 1/2 yrs with T, perhaps the two of you can find non-med means of coping...?? i'm just thinking you are a different person than 2 1/2 yrs ago, maybe you can do it differently. i dunno... i just want to take it all away for you

[sunrise]

While I am convalescing from my surgery, I am reading a stack of old magazines I picked up at the library. In an issue of Psychology Today from 2006, I read the blurb below, which reminded me of this thread:

Tainted Love. He loves me, he loves me not. Yale researchers found that people who tend to see their mates as either all good or all bad lack self-esteem. They struggle with conflicting desires: to form close relationships yet avoid rejection at all costs. When these Jekyll-and-Hydes feel most vulnerable, they retreat into self-protection mode and withdraw their loving feelings.

This sounds so much like the "I love him, I hate him" cycle Pink describes with her T. Could improving self-esteem help circumvent the cycle? Is the "I hate him" phase just a self-protective mechanism? I definitely have self-protective strategies, but don't express them as "I hate him." I find these ideas really interesting and it makes me wonder even more if people who experience the "I love him/I hate him" with their T have the same pattern in their marriages and other love relationships?

[Flowerb]

It seems to me that this is an attachment issue, ambivalently attached - full of the longing to be nurtured, understood and emotionally held while fearing rejection and abandonment. So any disruption in the relationship sets off all the warning bells, the attachment thread stretches or breaks and you feel alone. And you hate alone, hence you hate him.

It isn't a cycle that has to go on forever. Look at the length of time you are able to sustain the connection now or the shortening time that you hate him. What you wrote shows how much you can now reflect on this pattern and see it when it happens. In reading your posts, I can see that there is usually a preoccupation with the relationship but when he becomes a ghost to you, is that because you've stopped thinking about him so much (to busy with life?) or because you can't feel his caring sustaining you? Or is it too hard to be mad at someone you care about so you have to not care about them?

And ask yourself what do you really hate? Most of us hate that we can't feel so cared for and safe every day, all the time. An hour a week isn't enough! But it is enough to give us a taste of what we really, really want. And that is just so hard. In some ways, I hate therapy because it highlights what I don't have IRL.

I'm rambling tonight. I hope this isn't too many questions. I'm sorry you are hurting.

[lauren_helene]

Sunrise hit the nail on the head! I have the same love/hate although my T refers to it as value/devalue. One of the hallmarks of my personality for sure.

Pink, I hope this doesn't upset you but try and focus less on your T and analyzing every word or tone of voice. I do the same thing so I'm not preaching at all. It is such a painful process to realize that the unmet needs that we have must be filled by us and no one person can do that for us.

Think about how your interaction with your T could be similar in your current relationships. For example, do you pick friends, significant others that will eventually disappoint you? or that can't be there emotionally for you? By 'pick' I mean that in the unconcscious sense.

That is what I have learned about why I value/devalue. I did this in all my relationships prior to T. When they were showering me with love and attention, I was on cloud nine and when they couldn't keep up that pace, because no one can, I immediately took that as rejection and felt unloved. Eventually, I moved on to the next relationship and the cycle continued.

Pink, all I can say is that as hard as this is to realize, your T is there for you emotionally, he has proven that over and over, but he cannot fill that empty void forever.

I hope this comes across as helpful to you.

[chaotic13]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
Flowerb said:
Most of us hate that we can't feel so cared for and safe every day, all the time. An hour a week isn't enough! But it is enough to give us a taste of what we really, really want. And that is just so hard. In some ways, I hate therapy because it highlights what I don't have IRL.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

I found this perspective very interesting, thanks for sharing it.

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
Flowerb said:
or because you can't feel his caring sustaining you? Or is it too hard to be mad at someone you care about so you have to not care about them?

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

It's the first one. I am still not able to internalize his caring, the connection, or anything.

I actually just called The Ghost and left a message that I wanted to touch base with him before session tomorrow. For the first time this whole week, I feel like I want/need him... so I reached out. I want to make sure he's still there.

[Gracey]

Hey hon. . .

What do you think? Who made him the ghost?

Pink,
Hey. I know what you mean. I like McKell's idea - this week her T is "thumbs up". Who knows what she'll be next week?

It is totally emotionally exhausting, you're right! But what can we do about it? I guess we have to keep loving them even though their behavior is so erratic (LOL)?



I think that maybe your T is the ghostest with the mostest.

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
Gracey said:
Hey hon. . .

What do you think? Who made him the ghost?

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

He called back and I told 'ol Ghosty that he is a ghost. He asked me if I killed him.

He's right.

The rest of the conversation seemed unreal. I need to ground myself.