[Rive.]

Have you ever had a 'rupture' with your T where you perceived there was too much pain caused for it to be repairable?

If so, what pushed you over the edge? Or do you try again? How many chances would you give them?

In either case, what informed your decision to stick it out... or to leave?

[LonesomeTonight]

This happened to me with both my ex-marriage counselor and my current T.

Ex-MC: He had been extremely accepting of me and anything I shared with him, including some strong (mostly paternal) transference. He also said things that suggested he would never abandon me. At one point, a few years into seeing him, I sent him an email saying I loved him (which I'd said before, and he'd seemed OK with), and he initially said it was OK, but that it was a big deal, and I should talk about it with him or my current T (who I'd only been seeing a few months at that point). I said I wanted to talk about it with ex-MC, but he then was saying I should really talk about it with my T, not him.

It led to a somewhat contentious text exchange that led to him calling me and saying, "I only have a few minutes, and I'm going to do all the talking." He was very harsh on the call (which lasted longer than a few minutes), and at the end, he said I needed to reduce contact with him. That crushed me. Sure, it wasn't completely abandoning me, but it felt incredibly painful. He wouldn't even let me talk to him on the phone about it a few weeks later without my husband chaperoning (he used to be fine with phone calls just with me).

I kept trying for a bit, with H and I still going to sessions, though less frequently. I ultimately just realized that I couldn't trust him anymore. And that looking into his eyes didn't have the same calming effect that it used to have. It was like things had shifted, and there was no going back. So we terminated. I've had a few email exchanges with him since, and things are generally amicable. But I don't think I could ever trust him in the same way again.

I feel that the reason we couldn't work through it is that I saw this different side of him during the phone call. And his telling me we I had to reduce contact felt like abandonment. I lost my ability to trust him. He was no longer the safe, accepting paternal figure that I thought he was. And it felt like my love was poison. So I just couldn't continue.

Separate post on current T (spoiler alert: we worked things out) in a bit.

ETA: I should add that I had a couple previous ruptures with ex-MC that we *did* work through. The difference those times was that he ultimately accepted some sort of responsibility for making a mistake (though it took some time on one occasion) and still showed himself to be accepting of me.

[susannahsays]

I just had a rupture a couple of hours ago. I don't know what I'm going to do. I'd probably just stop therapy except my psychiatrist has expressed the opinion that I need to be seeing a therapist and most therapists don't have openings at the moment.

[ScarletPimpernel]

I would probably give L unlimited chances...unless I found out she lied to me about something. Then I wouldn't know what I would do. And that's assuming we can work through whatever the rupture is. I believe we could so long as we remain honest with each other. We have commitments and agreements and routines. We have created a foundation for us to rely on. But honesty is our number one rule for both of us. That doesn't mean we don't have boundaries or limits or privacy. It does mean that whatever is said is the truth. Oh, and we don't make promises. Well, she's not allowed to. She can swear and/or state her intentions. I have made 2 promises? 1. I won't hurt myself until I talk to her first, otherwise I must go to the hospital if I can't wait for her. 2. No matter what happens, I agree to one last closure session. I can't just ghost her.

I don't know if I'd give T unlimited chances. Probably. Again though, honesty first.

I've only left one therapist on my own terms. Three my parents got rid of, one transferred jobs, one ditched me when I got sick for 2 weeks, and then ex-T abandoned me.

[dolphingirl]

Yes. With current T, but old T several years ago was wonderful. T made the assumption I wanted to terminate without discussing with me & sent me an email stating she saw I attempted to schedule my next session and listed referrals (who weren't accepting new clients). She called me once while I was at work, no voicemail, and 15-20 min later sent that email. Had a session where I was upset & left a few minutes early. Then the following week I cancelled d/t a doctor's appt. I noticed I hadn't received any reminders for the upcoming session. I went to the portal and there wasn't one scheduled. I didn't think too much of it because the news was going on about the blizzard like weather that was supposed to start later that week (a few hours before session) & lots of places were already closing days ahead. I tried calling yesterday, but T emailed me again late last night. I didn't want to partake in lengthy email conversation, so I called, and she called me back.
I was thinking about discontinuing therapy with T anyway- never felt connected or productive. What pushed me over the edge- lack of communication. There was no voicemail, email, text, message in the "client portal", etc. If there was simply one of those forms of communication where T simply said, "Hey I know you left upset & missed a session. I wanted to check and see if you wanted to continue therapy." would have been all I needed to try again. Even if old T did something like this, which she didn't, I would have tried again, because our overall relationship was that good.

[Lostislost]

I had a rupture with current T and I thought for sure it would be the end of our relationship. I was at my most vulnerable point I'd been in years, I'd just quit my job and moved somewhere new, I was under attack from some people in my life and I had no idea who I was.

I didn't know what to do next, how I would carry on without his support even though I felt like he didn't care for me anymore. Everything stood in the way...my phone broke so I couldn't talk to him properly, the next session I had with him there was a massive car crash on the motorway so I almost didn't make it to see him, and thought about just giving up and going home. I think I really hated him and how careless he had been. But I didn't stop seeing him, and he did take many steps to try and repair our relationship after that.

Sometimes I feel like we are still repairing it, as the pain from the rupture never really goes away, and now I tread lightly, just in case.

[Oliviab]

I've been with my T for over 6 years and over 600 sessions, so lots has happened. The work is pretty intense, and yes, we've had ruptures. We're really good at having ruptures. We've probably had 5 or 6 major ruptures, where I didn't think I could continue, and a dozen or more smaller ruptures where I fantasize about flouncing out and never coming back, but am not seriously considering it. For the major ruptures, we generally both sought consultation. On two occasions, I worked with another therapist in addition to my T (and with his knowledge/recommendation) for about six months each time. The purpose of the auxiliary therapist was to try to lend stability to my primary therapy relationship. ROIs were signed and everything was above board. (He recently told me that it was hard on his ego to have me seeing another therapist, to know that we were talking about him and his work with me was being scrutinized, but that he always encouraged it, because he didn't want to "cut me off" from others like my abusers did and he also doesn't think he's beyond reproach.)

For two of the major ruptures, my trust in him was so damaged that I didn't think we could recover and I started looking for other therapists. The first time, I met with four different therapists and found one I thought I could work with if I couldn't repair things with my T. It helped just knowing who I would go to if things fell apart--that stabilized me enough that I could work through it with my T. For the other, I started seeing another therapist secretly for about four sessions while my T and I were trying to work things out. That time, I really intended to terminate therapy with my T, and just wanted another therapy relationship to help me through the fallout. But the new therapist just...well, he wasn't my T. (I'm sure he's a great therapist, but my T is amazing.)

What kept me in it was the realization that even as things were falling apart and he'd morphed into the bad guy and trust was broken and he'd hurt me, I still found myself recommending him to other people and I would allow my children to see him (not that he would allow it--dual roles--but the point is that I would trust him with my children). This discrepancy between what I "knew" (he's a brilliant therapist and trustworthy) and what I "felt" (he can't be trusted, he's not safe) made me realize that working through it would be in my best interest. Both because I would get to keep a really good therapist, and because this is the work of my therapy (learning to stay in relationship, learning to trust myself to be able to handle getting hurt, working through ruptures, etc).

I will say that I think rupture-repair can be amazingly healing, especially if you've experienced relational trauma. I will also say, I don't think very many therapists are good at it. So many of them are defensive and deflect all blame to the client. Or they cannot tolerate the conflict or vulnerability and they retreat to a power position. Sometimes they get stern and cold and distant. Sometimes they counterattack. My T and I have learned together that I really need him to own his part in it, I probably need him to own more than his part in it initially, and then once I feel seen and heard, once he has accepted responsibility for hurting me, once I feel safe enough in the relationship again, THEN I am finally able to look backwards and see that a lot of the hurt comes from some previous wound that he bumped. And once the more recent hurt is sufficiently healed, we can work on healing that original hurt.

[Rive.]

Thank you for your replies.

LT - wow, yes, that does (to me, for what it's worth) sound like abandonment. How terrible to make you feel that "my love was poison" <= reading that really impacted me. Do you 'miss' him at all? What you had... or what you thought you had?

susannahsays - oh no, sorry to hear that. Reading your 'dear T' posts a little while ago, it seems your T has really dropped the ball with you and really let you down..

ScarletPimpernel - that sounds like a pretty solid relationship, which of course doesn't mean there might not be pain. Just that reading your post makes me feel that you guys can 'work it out' or at least, 'talk it out'... It does sound like a solid foundation..

dolphingirl - that is unacceptable behaviour from your T. It makes me angry reading how T terminated you. I hope you find a much better, and ethical one, dolphingirl

Lostislost - that sounds so painful Lostislost.. I can relate when you say "the rupture never really goes away"... Yes. For me, it is like a thorn or wound that still hurts whenever I breathe.

[Rive.]

Oliviab - 600 sessions, wow, that is a lot!

This discrepancy between what I "knew" (he's a brilliant therapist and trustworthy) and what I "felt" (he can't be trusted, he's not safe)

Yes, well put. I can so relate to that confusion between a knowing vs. feeling with regards to a hurt

I will also say, I don't think very many therapists are good at it. So many of them are defensive and deflect all blame to the client

Yes, yes and yes. They get defensive and don't own up to it. Which makes it worse.

Thank you for your post, Oliviab.

[ChickenNoodleSoup]

I don't know how many chances I'd give my T. I've only ever had this one, the other two I saw ended after a session or two for much less than a real rupture.

I just had a huge issue with my T a week ago. He first told me we could talk in a few hours, then texted me an hour later, saying he'd have to see another client instead. He later on was able to reschedule the call and together with my session it was enough to get me through mostly. Now, we're working on some things that should help make the next time more bearable. It triggers my fear of abandonment a lot, regardless of the exact reason of him having to cancel, and things like this will always happen. I trust him enough that I can forgive him.

We just talked about it again today, and both of us kind of agree that part of therapy is just waiting for these kind of things to happen. It's different if you're just telling somebody about issues you have in other relationships than if they happen in the relationship between you two. If my T wasn't able to help with resolving those, I'd probably not give him a lot of chances though.

[Rive.]

It's interesting how some of your Ts are willing to work on the relationship, to own their part, to try and 'fix' ybings

[waterlogged]

My story is similar to Olivia’s, but over 100 sessions/8 years. We have had a number of major ruptures., and I’ve considered quitting any number of times. We’ve worked through all of them, though it’s excruciating in the middle of one. I find them very dysregulating and destabilizing. That said, I have learned to stick with conflict and honor my anger and that relationships don’t just fall apart because people don’t agree. My mother was really good at utilizing the silent treatment and so to have a maternal-like relationship where we can have tough conversations has been really healing. But my therapist is really good at owning her part in ruptures and that makes a big difference.

[velcro003]

Originally Posted by Rive.

It's interesting how some of your Ts are willing to work on the relationship, to own their part, to try and 'fix' ybings

I've only been seeing my art T for about 6 months, but today she apologized because she thought she pushed me too far. I told her that my tolerance for this subject was very low, and I didn't blame her, yet she still apologized. I feel alternately bewildered because I never would have been upset at her, and comforted, because she realized something I wasn't even that aware of.

All that being said, that if we ever had any real ruptures, I feel like she'd handle it well.

[Just42dayK]

Last year T and I had a very painful rupture that I couldn't imagine how I would ever be able to trust him again. It was tough for both of us I think. We were able to work through it for several reasons.

I decided to continue to show up for session even when I could not see any path forward. We acknowledged the very hard work for me of showing up. I had a history with T of working together for a year or two then I would quit. T says I ran from treatment but at those times I didn't see it that way. I did this many, many times. Through the running away all those times somehow I was learning to stay, getting stronger able to tolerate the work including ruptures. So I think developing that within myself helped me to stick it out more through last years rupture. Also we were building trust, the kind I needed over a long period of time in order to hang in there with him. Additionally, now recognizing that we don't have forever to do this work helps me.

T works on our relationship in clear, open ways. He will list how he messed up, owns it, apologizes, listens, accepts my anger and we work it out. We argued /repaired for about 3 months last year. So much was happening in my life I told him I didn't have energy to be focused on my anger toward him anymore because of my acute issues that we needed to discuss. We moved forward without being completely repaired but somehow healed along the way.

We have come so far I would give us as many chances as we need to mess up and repair until our work is complete.

[waterlogged]

I meant 1000 sessions not 100. So many opportunities.

[Etcetera1]

Originally Posted by Rive.

Have you ever had a 'rupture' with your T where you perceived there was too much pain caused for it to be repairable?

If so, what pushed you over the edge? Or do you try again? How many chances would you give them?

In either case, what informed your decision to stick it out... or to leave?

A complete loss of trust or fear of such complete loss of trust is where I would leave. After enough negative, unfixable emotions would accumulate in the therapy relationship. Mainly due to the therapist's detachment, lack of empathy, manufactured attitudes, lack of transparency, and sometimes actual passive-aggressive manipulation, e.g. by deliberately not responding to me when responding to other clients' messages (but pushing it in my face that they are responding to others anyway!!), or by claiming mysterious insight when expressing bad attitudes and opinions towards me. All that in the face of me trying to trust them enough, no way I'd continue therapy with a therapist like that.

I would say I gave such people a chance if it was some negative reaction in me that I would dismiss instead of analysing it out enough to discover the therapist is doing something that's just completely not okay, because of me trying to trust would make it hard to want to see negatives like that. If the accumulated negatives became too much, then the last straw would push me over the edge. At that point there was no way for me to turn back. As I would start analysing all of it consciously and arrive to a decision to stop therapy.

I would consciously decide to leave if I saw that that would make me more stable than staying with the therapist. That's how I've done it before. I did learn deep therapy is not for me, if I'm supposed to have attachment to the therapist and they do not have one to me, then it's not a real relationship to me where I can work on anything. The balance of power is simply too unequal without external checks for it. E.g. supervision, evaluation of objective feedback, etc.

EDIT: if it counts as giving a chance, after making that decision, I'd still ask them about the main issues in the last session. But they were like, justifications, rationalisations, no real interest in trying to work with me. So I did swiftly end the therapy at that point.