[sunrise]

I was reading at that transference URL that Perna suggested over in the limerance thread:
http://www.crisiscounseling.com/Arti...ansference.htm

Something written there struck a chord with me:
</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
How Can You Tell? How do you know you are having a "transference reaction"? It’s not always easy, but you probably are if you know very little about a therapist (or anyone) and you are having a powerful reaction that is not justifiable to a reasonable person.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">This is what I have been feeling off and on for several months, not toward my therapist but to another member of my divorce team. It has become a major problem for me. I know I am reacting all out of proportion to this guy's "sins" and the way he treats me. I know it but don't understand it and can't help it. I can go from 0 to 100 on the explosion meter when he says or does something I find objectionable. And usually I am a very calm and reasonable person. A part of me can look at this as an outsider and tell I am way way way overreacting. He makes me furious. I feel he lies to me, withholds critical information from me, favors my husband over me (he is supposed to be neutral), enjoys putting me in uncomfortable positions and watching me suffer, etc. I attribute all sorts of irrational and evil motives to him. In actuality, when I am with him, I think of him, objectively, as a nice guy.

I have been wondering in the back of my mind if there is a lot more going on with me and this guy than meets the eye. How else to explain my extreme reaction? Maybe it is transference, as that quote suggests. But how do I deal with it? I rarely even get to talk to this guy, how can I improve things? Is this the sort of thing to work on by myself in therapy? Last session I did drop a huge load of anger in T's office, a lot of it (but not all) directed at this guy and what I perceive that he is doing to me. I am almost ready to bail on the divorce because of him. I feel like I need to have couples therapy with this guy, just even one session. I know that sounds absurd. I don't know what to do. I suggested to T that I needed to meet with this guy to just talk about some of this (not with T present), and T seemed to think it could be helpful. But I wonder if he would agree? I would have my lawyer present too for both of our sake's.

If this is transference, what could it possibly be about? Do I need to figure this out in order to move past this? People often say stuff like, "you need to work through the transference." How do I work through the transference toward this guy? Is this a technique that my T can teach me?

[Rapunzel]

Yes, that is something you could definitely work on with your T. Transference happens a lot more than most people recognize. It's transference any time we react to someone based on how someone else in our history made us feel. If you do some pondering and exploring your feelings, you might be able to remember when you felt some of those same feelings before, who it was related to then, and why you felt that way. It can help you to recognize that your reactions are left over from that previous situation, and aren't this guy's fault, at least not entirely. And process what you learn with your T, who can help you do be able to manage those feelings more effectively than most of us could without the benefit of the kind of feedback T can give you.

[Perna]

I differentiate between transference (feelings about a person from our past who can be identified being put onto someone now) and projection (our own stuff being put onto someone now, not necessarily related to a particular someone in the past, could be something we do that we don't want to admit to)

I don't know if that would help you, deciding if the guy reminds you of your Uncle Leroy when you were 5 or reminds you of you in a way you don't like?

If you are fighting for "control," for example, when you're with him, you might not like not being in control and what's under that in you (perhaps fear or feelings of inadequacy), or you might remember when one particular baby sitter use to boss you around and you thought you were old enough and resented not being "in charge" yourself and he reminds you of the stupid baby sitter and, dang it all, you don't need a baby sitter anymore! :-)

I guess another way I'd put it is whether you're fighting a memory of some sort (transference) or a straw man (projection). I had to work through transference with my T relating to my stepmother but sometimes realizing it's just the stupid babysitter in this one instance and not an ongoing problem with "all" situations like this one (transference) is enough and I can easily light a match to the straw man myself.

[MissCharlotte]

((Sunny))

I vote with Perna. Maybe you can try to figure out whether this guy is pulling up a buried memory about how someone from your past (or present) made you feel. These triggers can be so well-hidden and subtle that they are difficult to find--but sometimes well-worth the effort.

On the other hand, it could be a projection. Only you can figure that out.

Good luck with this knucklehead.

[nightbird]

sounds like projection maybe?

you are assigning motives to him that you are coming up with in your own head, perhaps.

just something to throw out there and chew on.

btw, i think you are a great person and i enjoy your posts and chats.

peace,
nightbird

[ECHOES]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
I feel he lies to me, withholds critical information from me, favors my husband over me (he is supposed to be neutral), enjoys putting me in uncomfortable positions and watching me suffer, etc. I attribute all sorts of irrational and evil motives to him. In actuality, when I am with him, I think of him, objectively, as a nice guy.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

Can you identify when those feelings toward him begin? Maybe he said or did something right off that set this tone for you.

Have you considered telling him in a professional courteous way that sometimes you don't feel he's being neutral? I think a meeting with your T with him is an interesting idea! A safe place to let him know you have issues with him. Why not?!

[chaotic13]

Maybe the feeling your are having about him specifically are feelings you are having about the whole process.

[sunrise]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
Rapunzel said:
If you do some pondering and exploring your feelings, you might be able to remember when you felt some of those same feelings before, who it was related to then, and why you felt that way.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">Thanks, Rapunzel. I think I have discovered a little of that because I had this intense memory from my childhood surface almost as soon as I walked out of T's door last time. I think there may be a connection, and I hope I will be able to T about this next time.

Perna, I'm beginning to see this is complex. I think I may be both transferring and projecting. Not clearcut. I think T gave me an important clue last time, when he said, "I can see how scared you are," which is right on. I am very, very frightened, and I believe this goes back to a childhood incident. I am fighting to not be put in this situation again. But there is more to it also--projection? I guess one reason transference came to mind was that quote at the URL you gave, that transference is evidenced by having a powerful reaction that is not justifiable to another person. For example, it could just be that this guy is a jerk and does things that make me angry because they are scummy things. My getting angry would not be transference or projection. But I can see I am overreacting, hugely, and that fits with the transference definition.

[Perna]

Yes, and the article says some people call projection transference so I'd say both is probably right but that makes it easier for me than just having whatever "lumped" together in something called transference. Having two "halves" helps me divide and conquer

Transference isn't just something having to do with therapists; we transfer to others all the time; the boss a guy's afraid of like he was afraid of his father, I had a nice transference going as my father and husband are very much alike I think. Even thinking about how I treat my cats and seeing how I abused one many years ago like my stepmother had me and seeing myself in my girl cat (way more anthropomorphic that it warrants). We do it all the time with all sorts of people (yes, my cats are people! :-) in all sorts of situations.

[sunrise]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
nightbird said:
you are assigning motives to him that you are coming up with in your own head, perhaps.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">Yes, I am. I know some of these motives I create are irrational, but his actions just seem so hostile. For example, he said some things in a meeting once that were very difficult for me to hear, and I couldn't write them all down, it was too much too fast, but I felt they were very important for me to remember and grapple with. They would help me in the long run be able to do the divorce more functionally. So I asked him if he could email all of us the list of things because I couldn't get them all down, and he agreed, and everyone else there appreciated this too, as they were not getting this in their notes either. But he never sent the information. I emailed him twice to get it, and he did not send it. Once he responded and said he would send it later, but never did. I asked my lawyer to get this info for us since he was ignoring me, so she tried to get it, and he ignored her too. This information would really have helped me process and prepare. Why did he withhold it? Then for a future meeting, I knew it would be helpful for me to get the topics in advance so I could mentally prepare, as they were tough issues, but I hesitated to contact him because he had withheld info before. My T suggested I explain in an email to him better why this information would be helpful to me, so I did. I was very courteous and not aggressive at all. He did respond to my email, but ignored the question of importance. However, this time he knew why the information would help me, so it seems to me by ignoring me and refusing to send the info, he was deliberately trying to be unhelpful and make this process harder for me. My T says well maybe he is just overextended and couldn't follow through on your requests because he has no time. Maybe T is right, but it just seems to me this guy makes the process deliberately harder for me when it doesn't have to be. And I would be more understanding if he just dashed off a note to me and said, "sunny, I'm sorry I can't respond to that because I'm totally swamped right now, but in a few days I should be less busy--can you remind me and send your request then?" He is just so uncommunicative. I am a very forgiving person so would listen to his excuses if he would just level with me and say he has no time, as T has suggested. In addition, I am paying this guy thousands of dollars, so it makes me incensed he can't take time to carry out his responsibilities. I'm paying for his time! Just bill me, but do it! This is really just a minor incident compared to some of the other stuff he has done. But it all piles on top of each other, and seems to fit this pattern I construct in my mind of his being out to get me. Since none of this ever gets resolved, he can say one minor thing that seems to fit in the same pattern, and I go ballistic.

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
btw, i think you are a great person and i enjoy your posts and chats.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">Thank you, nightbird. I hope you will post more so I can get to know you!

[sunrise]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
ECHOES said:
Can you identify when those feelings toward him begin?

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">Almost as soon as he opened his mouth the first time we met. He told me I would have to stop seeing my therapist. You can bet I loved that! Our second meeting also contained friction. Part of it is the way he says things, very dogmatic, not admitting that other ideas exist besides his own or giving me space to respond. T has told me he is a black and white thinker (we all are at least a little bit, but this guy is very much so), and I guess that rubs me the wrong way.

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
Have you considered telling him in a professional courteous way that sometimes you don't feel he's being neutral?

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">I have told my lawyer and she is watching out for this.

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
mckell wrote:
Maybe the feeling your are having about him specifically are feelings you are having about the whole process.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">Yes, I've thought of this too and mentioned it to T! I have a lot of anxiety about the process and this guy has become somewhat of a target. However, at my last session I was an equal opportunity anxiety dumper, as I dumped on both the process, this guy, and other players as well.

I think I have a lot of work to do in therapy next week. I think my first thing to do will be to give T some more space to respond. I was so rushed at the end last time that I didn't allow him any space. I filled up that room all by myself. Not happy about that as T and I usually give each other a comfortable amount of space, but I'll try to do better this time. I need to not wait until the latter part of the session to bring up the important stuff.