Transference... here we go again. lol

Nothing deep here, but I have a question. I've been reading about different types of / theories on transference.

Most recently I read about Kohuts Selfobject transference notion. I am wondering.. how does the transference manifest itself? That is, what determines the way we experience the transference? Does it come from the client's needs or the traits of the therapist or both or ??

I experienced Selfobject transference with someone not my T but like a T. I am having a very hard time moving away from it and in fact I want to move away from feeling it toward her, but I still want it. I feel like I need it. But.. what do I know?!?!

So I'm wondering... can it be re-created with my T? If so how and are there pre-requisites? Is it my choice now that I know about it and like it and want it? Does it even matter that I like it and want it? Is it her (T's) choice how transference happens? Is it a process that is manipulated to fit the client? the T?

spinning in circles trying to figure it out.

Transference? I've never heard of such a thing. You'll have to ask someone else. LOL

As far as the transference you are experiencing with this other person who is not your T.... it is totally normal to want to get rid of your transference, but keep it at the same time. Transference often comes about because of feelings and connections that we are missing... why wouldn't we want to keep it around? But at the same time, it can get too intense, messy, be towards the wrong person, etc. The only way for you to get through this is to work through the transference... and even though it is not towards your T in this instance, you can still work through it with your T. Plus, you might be suprised, once you start working through, that parts of it do include your T.

I don't believe that transference can be created or re-created. It manifests from the unconscious.. Soooo, although it can't be created purposely, it can be pulled out... what I'm saying is that by working through transference with your T-- even if it starts by talking about your transference towards someone else-- you will begin to pull into consciousness-- transference towards your T.

One cool thing about transference is that it's not always about a specific person. You know, we tend to think we are transferring person A, B, or C onto our Ts.. but a lot of the time we are transferring our general interpersonal relationship patterns.

You are right-- transference comes from our needs... and our patterns. And it will always be different, depending on the therapist.

I think that Pink stated all of that quite well.

I would say that transference comes about naturally sometimes whether you want it or not. It is there and (for me) may come and go and come and go... and allows you to work things through in a safer environment. The transference may include people that it is not appropriate for you to act out with (say your boss maybe or in my case my elderly parents) or someone that may not be available to you due to loss, death, etc..

You might begin to see similarities in behaviors or reactions and a transference might take hold. But no I do not think that we can say we want one and get one without circumstances being favorable...(and favorable would change from person to person, situation to situation.)

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
ECHOES said:
Most recently I read about Kohuts Selfobject transference notion. I am wondering.. how does the transference manifest itself?

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">
What is self-object transference? Is it the regular kind of transference we express towards our therapists? I'm unfamiliar with the term, so hard to answer...

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
One cool thing about transference is that it's not always about a specific person. You know, we tend to think we are transferring person A, B, or C onto our Ts.. but a lot of the time we are transferring our general interpersonal relationship patterns.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">
Pinksoil, that's how it is for me--I transfer general relationship patterns rather than specific people onto my T. ECHOES, is that what you mean by self-object transference?

For me, I certainly didn't choose transference with my current T. It just happened, and I really didn't know what it was--really took me by surprise. With my first counselor, I did not have it.

My question is the same as Sunny's, I'm not really sure what self object transference is....need a further explanation to understand that, Echoes.

Interesting that Pink said we transfer general relationship patterns....this makes sense. I was recently thinking about how intense it gets with T sometimes and trying to define the relationship--Is he my mother, my father, my husband, my son???? Hmmmm, never sure which shoe fits....on different days, he's different people and on some days none of the above!

Good thread.

PS I just spent this evening transferring my signature onto many insurance forms for T and pdoc visits. I wish they would transfer some of their $ into my bank account!!
LOL

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
sister said:

PS I just spent this evening transferring my signature onto many insurance forms for T and pdoc visits. I wish they would transfer some of their $ into my bank account!!
LOL



</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

Hahahahahahahaha I LOVE IT!

pinksoil !! LOL!! LOL!!

Thank you for your great reply. I have talked about it in session and need to talk more, especially now that she knows I understand the concept a bit. It came up late in last session that I was reading about this so I will continue it next session. Hurry up, Friday!!

For sunny and sister: The best I can explain Kohut's Selfobject transference (where is ak when I need her!!?) is what Michael Kahn says in his book "Basic Freud": "... his (Kohut's) description of the "selfobject" transference: the hope that here at last is the parent for whom I have been hoping and waiting." The parent who mirrors to the child that they are the most wonderful of all; the parent from whom the child learns that she doesn't have to cope with the overwhelming world because one or the other parent is calm, confident, and competent and will take care of things while the child becomes stronger and more experienced, establishing a sense of security; and the parent who invites the child to share adult activities so the child hears the (unspoken) message "I am like mommy or daddy." and therefore is acceptable and like other people. The needs for love and security are met and the child can grow.

In my case I came upon someone who was very nurturing and supportive and mirroring and encouraging. Her words immediately were intoxicating to me. She really instantly became that parent I always wished for, daydreamed about, longed for so deeply. I'm now stuck there, pulling away from relating to her this way, but still feeling the longing painfully. I need some place for it to be!

I hope the explanation helps!

ECHOES

Pink that is a great reply! I agree 100%

Echoes,

Thanks for the explanation. I think I get it.

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
In my case I came upon someone who was very nurturing and supportive and mirroring and encouraging. Her words immediately were intoxicating to me. She really instantly became that parent I always wished for, daydreamed about, longed for so deeply. I'm now stuck there, pulling away from relating to her this way, but still feeling the longing painfully. I need some place for it to be!

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

If this is not your T, then why can't you transfer that longing to your T?

Just wondering.

I don't know. That's kind of my question. It doesn't seem to be happening because I don't think I perceive T the same way. It's disappointing and frustrating and right now very depressing.

I'm glad my explanation helped.

Not sure what you mean so Im going to write what happens to me -

Sometimes my therapist and I will be talking and she will say something that reminds me of my father and then I get mad at her for it instead of being mad because of what my father said or did to me.

one time when I was super mad at my therapist she kept pushing me until it finally clicked that I wasnt mad at her but at my father. I was so embarrassed that I went off at her about that thing that my father did. But she told me not to worry about it. thatm its what therapy is and is for - my taking my problems about what happened out in other ways then what I was doing -cutting and burning - that her job is to be a sounding board for me to yell at, be mad at and work my problems out with. She said my doing this - feeling like she was my father in that session was called my transfering my feelings for my father into her and its a good thing and is expected with therapy.

Its happened many times over since then and each time my therapist is ok with it. She never creates the situations when it happens because she's not a mind reader and doesn'tt know what all my triggers are about my father and what happened. the transference situations just happen naturally without her nor I planning them and when it does happen we take care of it right away like her pushing me until I recognized I was mad at my father not her but because she said something that he had said to me I went off.

Another thing my therapist and I deal with all the time is my confusion about being attached to her vs my transferring past issues on to her. One time I thought my thinking about her and needing to call her voicemail everynight before bed in order for me to be calm enough to get sleep was transferance. But then she asked me if in the past I had someone that I had needed to be with me in order to sleep, if so then yes my having to call her voicemail as a calming tool before bed was transferance. But if not and I just did it because I liked her and trusted her then that means I am appropiately attached to her.

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
Echoes said: That is, what determines the way we experience the transference? Does it come from the client's needs or the traits of the therapist or both or ??

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

Well, as I said earlier, I change T's role in my l ife according to my needs. I have therapy later today and tomorrow I am having cataract surgery. So I am a bit nervous. Therefore, right now I am thinking about T as a father figure. I need comfort and reassurance from him today and so he becomes father.

Hey! Lightbulb moment!!! I just realized, as I typed this, how automatically I placed him in father role as opposed to mother role when I needed some comfort..... Hmmmmmmm

So, his needs better not conflict with mine right now!

((((Guest)))))About transference. That same Kohut who speaks of Self-Object, has most excellent ideas on how transference is welcome in therapy, and how the working within it is so insightful, reassuring, and hopeful for resolution. Unlike Freud, those therapists in the 20th century encourage transference. The modern therapists like Kohut believe that being friendly, with just moderate frustration, is more curative than Freud's austere style. Lately, I've been into the topics of Good Object vs. Bad Object and how we can get messed up over those in our early years. Kohut is one of my favorite writers.