[Mouse_]

i feel that everything that i've used to fill the void is not working...no one, nothing can fill that void, what is the deal with the theraputic relationship?...aargg but I cannot trash it because its whats keeping me alive...but t's not here and this time I know it i've not been able to rub the lamp nor get the genie to appear....oh t will love these tales when she returns,...i see her sitting with a confident grin thinking, aha at last she feels the abandoment depression the narcissitc cover has been hiding...but that feeling that nothing, no one can fill that hole...whats left to hold onto....keep talkinga dn talking and getting into debates and then realise I dont know what the %#@&#! i'nm talking about it s all the people in me working on their own...t says email if I want...i dont want too....whats the point...t will reply and be as genuine and caring as normal but somehow even that dont do it.....what does it? oh the knowledge one is not immortal...is all this been an attempt to starve of imortality?...now i know I will die what the %#@&#! do i need a relatinship for?....stupid games humans play and then they wake up and see its all crap...the more I come out teh more I go in....hi T, yeah your pretty cool but hey, even you dont do it....

[Mouse_]

no wait what am i saying? without t it feels like death. oh to not need t but i dont need her but my heart aches for her? or is for the sense of myself i feel when i'm with her? when shes' gone I feel gone, but isn't that how it felt as a baby? oh perhaps this is the death instint i am feeling..oh the ambilvlance of wanting to live but to live without the pain...

[Perna]

You have to learn to make your own spackle to plug your own holes. That's what T is teaching you, it just takes a heck of a long time.

Everybody has the existential angst of being alone, that's not necessarily related to your problems.

[Kiya]

and really, i think that (this is a bit Eastern) we do "die" to ourselves each time we get a new understanding because the old self cannot exist with the new. we have to release the old to hold the new. there is not room for both. this is why we can't go back when we want to stop going forward. we can try, but we can't fit in the old any more. and like any death, even the "dying to the new" hurts and causes us some fear and grief. but if we can get into that patter and understand that it is only temperary, the pain will not be as great nor last as long.
(((((((((((hugs)))))))))))))))
kiya

[MissCharlotte]

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or is for the sense of myself i feel when i'm with her?

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This is my vote! I think that in the secure attachment with T you are able to define yourself in a way that you never could before. T and I were discussing attachment yesterday and I have been thinking about just this topic. A secure attachment between infant and mother allows the growing child to make sense of the world and feel safe in it. If she feels safe she can then begin to form a sense of self. Sigh.

I think on Maslow's hierachy of needs I never reached beyond the basic level. Maybe you were stuck here as well?

Peace

[Kiya]

weird - i just read Maslow's hierachy of needs in class.

[ECHOES]

(( Mouns ))

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without t it feels like death. oh to not need t but i dont need her but my heart aches for her?

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You sound like you are in a hard place that I can related to. Recently "not needing" was a defence that was working then fell apart quickly. There's so much behind the needing. Such a longing it can make, but such a risk it is to take.

Struggling with missing between sessions, I realized that time equals distance. The longer the time away from T, the farther it feels I am from her and the more intense the missing feels and the more frantic I feel.

Email sounds good, a way to connect. But then the reply would be a reminder that she isn't in her usual "there" so how would that feel.

Missing and wanting and longing are so intense.

[Mouse_]

Kiya and Miss charlotte, YES! you both put into words what I was writing last night. I

Echoes,Yes I think hearing from T would remind me she's not there. Shes away another week, maybe I will email next week, I'm not sure.

Perna, I know you feel your helping, but sometimes I do feel you are taking away my feelings Like your talking to a toddler and telling her to stop whining and go play, as I say, only sometimes...but these are feelings I'm talking about and they do not always respond to rationale directions. I'm sure you know that one too.

[Perna]

[Mouse_]

[pachyderm]

Mouse:

[pachyderm]

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Perna said:
You have to learn to make your own spackle to plug your own holes.

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Why then are we paying them?

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That's what T is teaching you

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Are you certain? Might there be a better way of doing it?

[Perna]

I don't think we can do anything for anyone else besides ourselves. In being our best, most balanced selves, using our skills and attributes to the best of our abilities I think we can positively influence others. I think T's are trying to do this and where they succeed, are their best selves and use their education, training, skills and attributes to get us to understand how to do that for our selves is what therapy is all about.

I think getting "fixed" has to come from the inside out. When you're injured and a chunk of your skin is taken out, you gradually heal from the bottom up, the missing chunk "fills in". A doctor can clean it and give you neosporin, and bandage it, etc. until it heals but only your body is going to heal it? If you don't eat right to get the nutrients needed for healing, don't pay attention and work to keep the wound clean, ignore the doctor when there's signs of infection, etc., your body isn't going to be able to fix that wound no matter what someone on the outside does.

But even when we heal in that way, there's going to be a scar. We can never be like we were before the injury. Some scars don't get in the way but with some serious injuries, the scar tissue pulls and is too tight and can be painful. Some scars are ugly and might cause us additional scarring by how we decide to feel about that ugliness.

[pachyderm]

Perna, in many ways I think we do not disagree. It's just that therapists' skills are not always good enough to help with the dis-eases that are presented to them. Their understanding and correct knowledge (but only if it is "correct") can aid in healing. If it is not adequately correct (and I think that is very often the case -- that has been my experience), then healing will likely not take place.

[Perna]

I would say the healing might take longer but I wouldn't say it would not take place because the therapist wasn't very good. If you don't put neosporin on the wound, don't have a medicated bandage and just work on it yourself; give it a wash and keep an eye on it, etc. it heals, might be lumpy and bumpy and take longer, etc. The broken leg will mend if you care for it yourself and don't get it casted, just not like you'd like it to, you might still have a limp, etc. because you only sort of got it straighter (not having the experience, skills, resources of a doctor) and the tools you used, the stick you found :-) weren't as good as they might have been with a professional looking at it.

I agree that with a not very good doctor you can end up with a not very well set leg that's slightly off and causes you pain, gives you a limp, etc.; that's why we get second opinions, research our doctors and illnesses, and educate ourselves as much as possible. But I don't think, even if you randomly pick 5 doctors, that they're all going to be equally mediocre? The chances of that are not good. If all the doctors are "alike" and my leg doesn't feel like it's healing right, I'm going to look at what I can do myself to fix that; I'm going to rest more, eat better, ask my friends whose opinions I value what they think, ask others with broken legs about their experience, etc.

[pachyderm]

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I would say the healing might take longer but I wouldn't say it would not take place because the therapist wasn't very good.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

I would. In fact it might get worse. It could lead to death. It almost did for me. Maybe it still will.

At one time it was said that of all the mentally ill, one third got better, one third stayed the same, and one third got worse. Regardless of whether they got treatment or not. Every once in a while I hear the same statement. To my mind, that tallies with the fact that there is really no consensus within the profession on what even causes "mental illness". Causes advanced range from childhood psychological trauma to viruses carried by cats. With such a lack of understanding, it is not surprising that many fall into the crevasses.

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
If all the doctors are "alike" and my leg doesn't feel like it's healing right, I'm going to look at what I can do myself to fix that; I'm going to rest more, eat better, ask my friends whose opinions I value what they think, ask others with broken legs about their experience, etc.

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You can do this, in my estimation, because you have a sufficient level of self-confidence. I think you underestimate the numbers (myself included) who do not. Some of us were told from childhood on (and sometimes continue to be told) that it is our own fault. I think you vastly underestimate the effect of this kind of suggestion on people. I wonder why you do so.

I may be struggling out from underneath the power of suggestion from those considered to be "authorities." If I am, it has taken me decades -- decades in which I received precious little help (and much, much misdirection) from the "authorities".

[chaotic13]

I think the best healing comes when you combine the highly skilled doctor (therapist), with a patient that willing to trust, follow directions, accept that there may be functional limitations, and tries his/her best to restore as much function as possible. Unfortunately, many times our mental state prevents us from being good patients and no matter what standards are in place, highly skilled doctors are always in short supply. Also, just like in physical injuries, there are a lot of confounding factors and co-morbidities that further degrade optimal healing.

[pachyderm]

> many times our mental state prevents us from being good patients

I've noticed that in my case...

But then, why else are we there?