[chaotic13]

Pink’s post where we discussed the expression of gratitude for all the care our T’s give us and Sunrise’s post where she questioned if connecting and bonding with others would ever become easier came together for me in a small exchange this week.

I don’t know if I posted before about a profound experience I had this year with one of my students. This student’s academic success falls well short of stellar and her encounters with me at times were likely… unpleasant. To her credit she hung in there and one by one met all academic requirements. This past year this student suffered the loss of two very prominent people in her life within a matter of 6 months. Of all places, she ended up in my office at 11:00 at night. I listened patiently for a while and must have unconsciously mirrored some of the empathy my T had shown me in our interactions. Much to my surprise the student unleashed a storm of raw and unrestrained emotion, the scale of which I had never witnessed in my life. I simply cannot even articulate the intensity of her grief; it was as if tears were flowing from every pore in her body. For me time just seemed to stop as I sat silently observing every detail of this response in total disbelief. I just can’t describe the impact this encounter had on me. Although I think I provided what she needed that night, I later regretted not listening to my inner voice. It was screaming for me to just reach out hug her, but I simply couldn’t do it. I’m not sure why I stayed a distance conscientious observer that night…professional boundaries; fear of getting in over my head; not having seen this action modeled; fear that my actions would be misinterpreted??? Afterwards I wrote about this interaction for weeks in my private journal.

Today this student graduated. Today I did not withhold my hug nor did I withhold expressing how happy I was that she had reached what seemed like an unattainable goal for the past 4 years. Today I reached out and connected with someone and actually felt like I gained a piece of my Self instead of losing more. The therapeutic interaction with my T is transferable and I am thankful for it.

[Kiya]

Chaotic!!!! That is awesome!!! What an incredible gift - to help her, to be a role model for her, to be there for her at a terrible time of need, and to allow your self that healing as well. Congratulations on your success as well as hers.
!!!
Kiya

[sunrise]

That is a wonderful story. What a difference therapy is making in your life, chaotic. I hope you will share that with your T.

[pachyderm]

[chaotic13]

Kiya, yes I think this exchange benefited for both of us. I just can't describe it, today day I cannot ever remember seeing (feeling) such intensity. It was like the humidity in the room suddenly rose or something. Even more amazing to me is that I didn't retreat or make vain attempts at stopping the bleeding. I simply sat and witnessed it and felt like it was OK to simply let her grieve. I don't know why but his experience raises a lot of mixed emotions for me.

Sunrise,
I don't know, I don't want my T thinking I trying to play therapist. That wasn't my intent that night. The student just entered my office after class that night, I offered her my time and she let loose. I also don't think I really want my T to know the extent to which I critique not only my own actions in therapy but hers as well. I guess T's are likely aware of this anyway, probably part of my pathology. I did mention this experience briefly in therapy a few months later. I kind of down played its the true impact on me, though. I think I described the student's breakdown and I was caught off guard and started looking for the wet vac. This was not true at all, I was really affected by the experience but didn't want to admit it to my T. I have a tendency to use humor and sarcasm inappropriately at times. I can present myself as a real callus %#@&#! at times. IDK maybe my T would like to hear the real story. After all its a demonstration of how her (my T) affecting me affected someone else. Another series of seemingly random coincidences that are actually not random at all.

[chaotic13]

My mind keeps floating back to my encounters with this student and my reactions throughout the year. The red flag is waving :-)

The past 3 months in therapy I made a pact with myself to raise and talk about issues I've avoided, dismissed, or misrepresented during a previous sessions. I re-read what I wrote above and see all my lame excuses for not revisiting and sharing this experience with my T. For what ever reason I clearly misrepresented my true emotions/response regarding my earlier interaction with this student. Maybe my discussing it I will find out what is really behind all this thought obsession. I decided that I will mention this experience in tomorrow's session.

Keeping secrets from our T is counter-productive, I think. I reveal all to my T & pdoc. Been with pdoc about 10 years now & she hugs me before I leave after my appt. It is very meaningful to me as I'm not a physically demonstrative person & chafe when others get too close, but somehow the hug is so reassuring that we are in this together & there is hope & we will together figure out my path to healing & a better quality of life.

Funny, my internal med doc (I go to her for treatment of high blood pressure, high cholesterol, pernicious anemia, insulin resistance & for general yearly checkups) was actually kind of cold to me, but I knew she was a thorough & competent doc so I stayed with her. But after I had my OD a year & a half ago (& the hospital reported it to her as she was the doc on my records--I didn't know the hospital would do that), she became MUCH warmer! Who knew--all I had to do was OD & suddenly I became much more interesting than the run-of-the-mill patient, I guess. She even gave me her direct line phone # to call any time.

I think that your sensitivity to your student was amazing. Sometimes I think other vulnerable, sensitive or hurting people can pick up our "vibes" that we are safe to talk to since we have experience in these things.--Suzy

[Fuzzybear]

Chaotic,
It's amazing the power that teachers have, isn't it? I teach second graders and have used the skills that T has modeled more times that I can count. It has helped so many students! Also, just having a true understanding/experience about emotions and psychology helps tremendously.

Your experience sounds life-changing and I promise you that your student will never forget you! You did everything perfectly! Thank you so much for sharing your story

[chaotic13]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
Suzy said:
Sometimes I think other vulnerable, sensitive or hurting people can pick up our "vibes" that we are safe to talk

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">
I found this statement interesting. I hope I'm safe to talk to. Maybe therapy has affected the vibes I'm sending others. I just wish I didn't still feel so incredibly anxious and inept in dealing with people on a personal level. Inside my head is running a zillion algorithms trying to figure out what I should do or say next. For some reason I really, really internally stress out if the person starts crying. I just want them to stop as quickly as possible. I need to find a way to deal this better.

Soliaree,
Your comment made me think about my youngest son's 2nd grade teacher last year. He had to change classrooms part way into the school year. She was so warm and caring it just made the transition so much easier on him. I could tell she really cared about her students and saw her role as being much more than a deliverer of academic content. I thanked her during one of our parent-teacher conferences. She waved off my thank you and said that what little she gives is returned in 10-fold. I didn't really get it. Then she told me about one day she when she was stressing out because the class was not listening and the her lesson had seemed to get totally off track. In her frustration she handed out some independent desk work and retreated to her desk to regroup. She said my son appeared at her desk and politely said, 'Ms. ___ you look like you need a hug. Can I hug you and help you feel better?' She said, 'It was exactly what I needed, so I accepted.' Sometimes I wonder if my kids were switched at birth, LOL.

Pach &amp; Fuzzybear
x 10

[skeksi]

Chaotic, what a touching story. Thank you for sharing it with us!

I am also a teacher (elementary) and when I start to think that my T 'doesn't care' or has no emotional investment in me, I think about my relationship with my students, and I understand that my T can care in many different ways, and a big part of that is wanting to teach me the skills to have a good life and then be able to watch me succeed. I am so impressed that you were able to help that student so powerfully.

[chaotic13]

I didn't share this experience in therapy today. I was feeling good about sharing some positive stuff today, but things didn't work out. I am not physically at work this week and H is home also. I had to mention that I had a therapy appointment today. His immediate comment was.. "Don't you think you should be done with that by now?" I replied confidently with .. "No, I don't think I'm done yet." Then he got all pissy, stopped talking to me, and eventually drove off somewhere. Unfortunately, my confidence was just a bluff, his attack landed a significant blow. Although, my T counter it pretty well, I'm still having a lot of doubts about what I am really doing. I guess the good thing is my bullheaded side will never quit just because he thinks I should. I just hate having doubts! My brain will be reeling over-and-over the "when will I know its time for me to stop question?

I had a therapeutic session and I know there is always next session to share the graduation story. I just hate talking about H, even though he is a lot of my problem. The whole reason he gets mad about therapy, is because he thinks I am talking about him the whole time. And today, his assumption was correct. Damn!

[dalila]

<font color="green">[b]Have you ever thought of telling him thanks for giving you so much to talk about in therapy on one of the occassions that he pulls something like that? I did it with my dh and he has not been as bad about attempting to sabotage or prematurally ending my therapy.

[chaotic13]

Dalila... LOL

I needed that, THANKS

[sunrise]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
chaotic13 said:
I replied confidently with .. "No, I don't think I'm done yet."

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">Good for you!

Maybe next time he questions your need to attend therapy, perhaps say something like this: "Now is really a low time in my life. I'm very unhappy. So I'm trying to see if I can get help with this by seeing a therapist. If you have any other ideas, please let me know." What would he say to this? I want you to be unhappy the rest of your life so don't see the therapist?

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
I just hate talking about H, even though he is a lot of my problem.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">I can so relate to that! Last time toward the end of the session, my T asked me if there was anything else I wanted to discuss. I said, yes, but that there wasn't enough time. He asked what it was about and I said "me." He said he was going to put a bookmark there and we could talk about it next time. He's never done that before. I wonder if he will remember? Anyway, I get what you mean about not wanting to talk about your H, but yeah, sometimes it's necessary.

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
My brain will be reeling over-and-over the "when will I know its time for me to stop question?

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">If you still want to go, then the time to stop is not now. Maybe you can get reassurance from your T on this. From what you've written, therapy has been a positive experience for you, you've grown a lot, and look at how therapy is affecting your interactions with others--the student in the graduation story is a wonderful example. So what would be the reason to quit now? Are all your problems solved? Are you no longer learning anything? Are you no longer growing? You deserve this, chaotic, don't let your H affect what you know to be true.

[chaotic13]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
Sunrise said:
He said he was going to put a bookmark there and we could talk about it next time.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">
That is really nice. I think one of the big difference between you and I is that you can actually say..."I want to talk about me."

At the end of my session yesterday my T gave me a sheet of paper with two things written on it. She said here's what I want you to do. Clarifying, only if I want to do it of course I like that when she clarifies that she is only making a suggestion

The one item was something so simple, I couldn't believe the thought I needed her to write it down for me. #1. Ask ___ to take an interest in what you are interested in sometimes. The second item on the paper related to comments he makes that are intended to lay guilt on me. Also a no brainer.

On to today's dialog with H:
I told my H that I went hiking today. He responds sarcastically with, "You are taking this exercise crap way to far, WTF!" Keep in mind that I used to hike all the time when we were dating and before the kids, and I like the outdoors. Hell, I live near some really great trails and I am fit enough to start doing it again. So a little while later I say, "Do you have an interest in anything I do?" His reply is, "You exercise too much." Thinking he didn't hear what I said I repeated the question and followed with ... you know like a few days ago I mentioned a book I started to re-read. Are you interested at all in why I mentioned it to you? He said, "I don't get why you would read something you already read." At this point I dropped the conversation.

The sad part is I've looked at my T's note several times today. Although item #1 was something simple, basically ask for what you want. And I couldn't do it. I show interest in a lot of things he and others do, simply because I know it makes them happy. Yet it never occurred to me to want or expect others to reciprocate. Even now knowing how basic this want is, I still can't seem to ask for it.

[sunrise]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
chaotic13 said:
I think one of the big difference between you and I is that you can actually say..."I want to talk about me."

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">Well, that was the first time I ever said it. It only took me 19 months to get to that point!

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
#1. Ask ___ to take an interest in what you are interested in sometimes.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">You are talking about your H here? Or is she suggesting you go to others--friends & family--to get some of the interaction you need? For a long time in my marriage, my strategy became not to expect so much from my H. I would seek out conversation, companionship, interaction, reciprocity, etc. with others in my life, since he wanted to participate in none of these things. The pain of being so "alone" in the marriage was something I filled by my outside friendships. (Eventually, I became so depressed that I could not maintain these. The years wore me down.)

It's hard to even comment on your conversation with your H. What a butthead. He sounds very angry, perhaps very depressed. You are trying very hard to do your best in very difficult circumstances. To me, it sounds like he is saying to you, "I don't care about you and don't want to be with you anymore." That may not be the message he really wants to send, but it may be the message you end up hearing if it goes on long enough. For your sake, I hope he can somehow pull himself out of this or get professional help.

[chaotic13]

Yes Sunrise I was to ask my H this question. It think last year I had totally withdrawn from everyone. Therapy has helped me come out of this depression. I think I am doing a good job of engaging in activities and connecting with other people in my life. When I came out from under my rock, I realized I had a lot of great acquaintances around me just waiting for me to let them closer. I've been slowly doing that. I just have a lot of anxiety navigating these closer relationship.

As for my H, yes I believe he is depressed, paranoid, and has a lot of insecurity issues associated with his 1st marriage. Deep down I think he does care about me. Unfortunately he is so self centered that he has just no idea when he is rude or inconsiderate of others. Then there is ME with all my issues. Not a good mix, at least for me it is not good.