Just curious % of psych conditions due to some form of earlier trauma

I was just thinking about this the other day, and I know I can get exact numbers in psych journals, etc., but I was wondering what you all think.

I am just wondering how much of our prior life effects are due to psych disorders we now have. I am thinking it could be a high percent but I know some may just be medical too, and some are temporary too. Plus some we don't know why.

But if the percentage is high due to prior trauma, abuse, etc, it seems like we should take a tougher stand against child abuse, and other violent abuse some have suffered even as adults.

I know we can't prevent natural disasters from happening, and there will always be some trauma people suffer. But the trauma caused by the hands of other, needs to be taken more seriously. It seems like tougher sentences or consequences would at least help. It bothers to see criminals who get a shorter sentence for child abuse then other not as serious crimes. Abuse effects a person forever.

I guess what has me thinking is partly I miss my brother, he died in Nov. (age 36) from complications due to earlier child abuse from my mom. She is off living a free life doing whatever when she is responsible for his death, and he is gone. He is no longer suffering the effects, but I feel the effects and have to live with some physical myself that will only get worse the older I get. So even with therapy, I can heal the mental trauma, but the physical harm she has done will not go away ever.

This is something I have been talking about in therapy. EMDR is helping a lot for the memories, but I can't afford the physical therapy for the rest of my life due to prior abuse. I have 2nd stage arthritis in my neck and I will always walk a little funny and I am only 39. I do what I can, I practice yoga, etc but the effects will always be there.

My T says that he wants me to eventually see that I am who I am and that is a special person, that part of which was caused by my abuse. He says I will be a very good T, who has compassion and empathy, due to what I have experienced. What can I do, I really don't have a choice other than to keep trying to heal.

Approximately 100%, in my opinion.

Of course, trauma can be many things -- not necessarily "abuse" by parents or others. That does seem to be the most common form. "Trauma" means a stress that is not overcome by the person's defenses or resources, so that it depends on an individual's makeup and experiences too, as well as the help the person can get.

> it seems like we should take a tougher stand against child abuse, and other violent abuse

What do you mean by "tougher stand"? Punishment? Will that get us anywhere except more of the same? If by tougher you mean being more forceful in marshalling resources and knowledge to help a person, then I agree with you.

I do not expect to make the top of the popularity poll by saying these things.

I've experienced psych conditions both as a result of trauma and not.

When I was in h.s./college I went through a major depression for no apparent reason at all.....I was eventually diagnosed with Seasonal Affective Disorder.

Now I am experiencing depression/ptsd as a result of abuse.

After reading these message boards the past few months it is very discouraging to see just how many people are affected by abuse. I don't think I can ever understand how people can treat others so terribly. Very very sad.....

I agree, a very high percentage. I also agree that it isn't always abuse either. I wasn't abused, I was neglected. It all comes down to proper development. This is what we are supposed to be doing while we are growing up and if we don't get this due to our environment it can cause us problems.

I don't think that punishment is the way out. All of these parents who have harmed us didn't do it on purpose really. They are wounded people too and frequently just didn't know how to handle things.

One thing that I think can cause abuse is that parents don't realize that when they scream at their children that their children cannot process anything because they are scared to death from the screaming. The parent then thinks that the kid just isn't listening and then they think that the child deserves this abusive response then.

I am sorry for what happened to you....

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it seems like we should take a tougher stand against child abuse, and other violent abuse some have suffered even as adults.

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YES!!!!!

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Sannah said:
I agree, a very high percentage. I also agree that it isn't always abuse either. I wasn't abused, I was neglected. It all comes down to proper development. This is what we are supposed to be doing while we are growing up and if we don't get this due to our environment it can cause us problems.

I don't think that punishment is the way out. All of these parents who have harmed us didn't do it on purpose really. They are wounded people too and frequently just didn't know how to handle things.

One thing that I think can cause abuse is that parents don't realize that when they scream at their children that their children cannot process anything because they are scared to death from the screaming. The parent then thinks that the kid just isn't listening and then they think that the child deserves this abusive response then.

I am sorry for what happened to you....

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Neglect is also ABUSE! Grr... I hate one as much as I hate the other.
One was more physically aggressive than the other, and that's the only difference.

It's multifactorial. If you read about the biopsychosocial model you can break down some of the components that all contribute to health or illness, mental or physical.

The way I understand most psych conditions, we are all born with particular dispositions and potentials and sometimes vulnerabilities. The way that we are raised also contributes to our growing personalities and the strengths and weaknesses that we develop. If we are vulnerable, and something happens that triggers a particular vulnerability, and especially if we don't get the support to deal with that vulnerability well, we can become mentally ill.

I think that if you look hard enough, most psych conditions could be linked to some kind of trauma at some point in life. But trauma doesn't have to result in mental illness either. Resilience and support and early treatment can go a long way.

Sometimes the source of abuse or trauma goes unrecognized. But it's still what it is, even if hidden.

i've read some stuff that suggests that there is controversy over what 'trauma' is - in particular, whether trauma is a property of events (e.g., hurricane, being held hostage, being hit etc) or whether trauma is a property of a persons psychology (e.g., when external events exceed ones coping ability).

there are some people who get through fairly extreme events without developing a mental disorder whereas other people develop a mental disorder seemingly in response to those same events. conversely, there are some people who develop a mental disorder seemingly in response to fairly ordinary events (e.g., changing jobs, moving house, in response to the death of a loved one etc) even when the majority of other people do not.

the prevalence of trauma has gone up significantly from previous years. some say this is due to increasing awareness of events that are objectively traumatic whereas before the trauma simply was not recognized (e.g., we learned that there were more mammals than we had supposed when we learned that whales really were mammals all along rather than fish). others say that we have extended the concept of trauma such that more people fall under the concept (e.g., if we change the concept of 'adolescence' so instead of it applying to people 13-19 it applies to people 11-20 then there are more adolescents in the world even if we hold the population and their objective ages fixed).

if you read about what life was like for the average peasant in the medieval period then events certainly seem to be more objectively traumatic than they are for the average mental health patient in todays society. perhaps even more people were mentally ill then than they are today or perhaps we are subject to more distress since we have more developed cognitive capacity / capacity to suffer or perhaps... a concept that was once applied to events such as surviving natural disaster and war have come to apply to events such as parents breaking the bones of animals (and then later, children), and eventually emotional neglect and sexual relations with minors etc etc etc. (Ian Hacking has an account of this in "multiple personality and the sciences of memory" if you are interested). Calling events 'abuse' (where 'abuse' is thought to be a major cause of psychological distress / trauma) is precisely about trying to get people to condemn those events and rehabilitate and / or punish those who bring those events about... To describe yourself as the victim of 'trauma' or 'abuse' is typically to attempt to justify or validate ones suffering. Conversely, to describe oneself as a victim of 'trauma' or 'abuse' is to take it on board that one must suffer and continue to do so (otherwise, if one moves on, then that seems to condone the acts that were committed - one simply has to suffer since that is what legitimates the thought that the reason why trauma and abuse are so bad is precisely the point that they are thought to cause suffering and harm that persists long term).

Calling events 'abuse' (where 'abuse' is thought to be a major cause of psychological distress / trauma) is precisely about trying to get people to condemn those events and rehabilitate and / or punish those who bring those events about... To describe yourself as the victim of 'trauma' or 'abuse' is typically to attempt to justify or validate ones suffering. Conversely, to describe oneself as a victim of 'trauma' or 'abuse' is to take it on board that one must suffer and continue to do so (otherwise, if one moves on, then that seems to condone the acts that were committed - one simply has to suffer since that is what legitimates the thought that the reason why trauma and abuse are so bad is precisely the point that they are thought to cause suffering and harm that persists long term).

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I was agree with you until I came to this. I don't believe most people truly want to identity with being a victim of abuse. I wish I could change that aspect of my past life.

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TRIGGERS ( I have contacted the admin. to add a trigger to this thread.
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Being burned with lightbulbs for wetting the bed, being beat until you can't sit down with welts so big, threatening to kill me if I told of the various stuff she did, listening to her torment my brother physically and mentally, being so afraid of when she would switch, from being okay to mad, etc. If this isn't trauma or abuse I don't know what is. Do I wish it didn't happen, yes. I am a survivor, but I was also a victim of abuse and it caused trauma.

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kim_johnson said:
. Conversely, to describe oneself as a victim of 'trauma' or 'abuse' is to take it on board that one must suffer and continue to do so (otherwise, if one moves on, then that seems to condone the acts that were committed - one simply has to suffer since that is what legitimates the thought that the reason why trauma and abuse are so bad is precisely the point that they are thought to cause suffering and harm that persists long term).

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I SO disagree with this.

I was abused. I do not believe that I "must suffer and continue to do so". In fact, the reason I am in therapy is to learn to put an end to the coping mechanisms that I've employed for far too many years to deal with the abuse that was done to me when I was a child/teen. I DO NOT think that I have to continue to suffer "since that is what legitimates the thought" that the abuse was bad. I know it was bad. I look forward with great hope to the end of any suffering the abuse has caused me.

Please speak only for yourself without making sweeping generalizations. I did not CHOOSE to be abused. I AM choosing to heal.

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happysappy said:
I am just wondering how much of our prior life effects are due to psych disorders we now have. I am thinking it could be a high percent but I know some may just be medical too, and some are temporary too. Plus some we don't know why.


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I am thinking we have to distinguish 'trauma' (which is in the title of the post) from 'our prior life evens' (which you wrote in above quote).

I think it also depends on the psych disorder-- obviously personality disorders are going to be caused by earlier events-- some traumatic, some not. I'll use myself as an example. At some point, I met the criteria for borderline personality disorder. I'm not sure if I still do, but I really don't care at this point, cause that's not what's important. Anyway, literature I have read states that individuals dx'ed with BPD (jup to 85 percent) have suffered sexual or physical abuse. What is the cause for the other 15 percent? Personally, I have never suffered any type of emotional, physical, or sexual abuse. There was definitely some emotinal neglect, and there was definitely some neglect on certain issues such as hygiene, medical appointments, etc. Was I ever left without food, toys, clothes, or shelter? No. So, would the neglect I experienced (which I haven't gone into detail about) count as trauma, or just negative past events that have shaped my personality? My therapist says that lots of little negative past events can add up to small traumas.

Most disorders arise as a combination of biological and environmental conditions. I would definitely say that my anxiety disorders came from a combination of both. However, I wouldn't classify anything that happened at home, which led to my anxiety disorders, to be a trauma.

Sometimes I feel as though my mental disorders, themselves, are some form of trauma. I have a very difficult time when memories come up of me being at my worst, in terms of psychological functioning. I have been thinking that would be interesting to study-- experiences with psychological illness being traumas in themselves.

my pdoc thinks my bipolar disorder is from the environmental aspect of my childhood, abuse wise. i dont have family history of mental illness.

> I was agree with you until I came to this.

Fair enough.

> I don't believe most people truly want to identity with being a victim of abuse. I wish I could change that aspect of my past life.

You can't change the events that you go on to describe. I think you are right about that.

What were things like for the average peasant child in the middle ages, do you think? In that society such acts weren't described as 'abuse'. They weren't condemned, really, either.

To us today those seem to be pretty obvious cases of events that we would consider objectively traumatic. Today the battle is over extending the concept of 'abuse' to cover emotional abuse and neglect. We have already accepted that physical and sexual violence is objectively traumatic. The point was that... Things haven't always been seen in that way.

How much were people harmed in the past when these things weren't considered 'abuse'? One thought is that they were significantly harmed - and those acts were abusive all along it was just that those cultures were mistaken in thinking that they weren't abusive. Another thought is that there is a certain kind of harm that comes from oneself (and others) describing or labeling the acts as 'abuse'.

One can of course be harmed by things that weren't abuse (natural disaster, for example) and one can of course have those same things happen to one and yet not be terribly affected. We tend to be told that the latter cannot happen... But of course it does... Unless mental illness was more prevalent (is more prevalent) in nations where those acts are more common than they are in developed nations...

You can't change the events but you can choose how to describe those events and you can choose what significance or meaning you attribute to those events with respect to their impact on later events.

Similarly, if one doesn't feel like getting out of bed in the morning one could attribute it to 'laziness' or 'depression' or 'a well deserved day off'. How we choose to describe the objective event of 'feeling like one doesn't want to get out of bed' is something within our control. Even if it is an undeniable fact that that is how we feel there is scope for us to choose what interpretation or significance we give to that event. I think that sometimes we are taught that interpretations of events and events themselves are indistinguishable (so that there are facts about which events are abusive or traumatic, for example). I think there is a worthwhile distinction to be made, however. As with the not feeling like getting out of bed case... It makes a significant difference with respect to where to from here...

> Please speak only for yourself without making sweeping generalizations.

I'm sorry - I didn't get the tone right. I'm used to writing from a third person point of view (has been drilled into me for a while now). I find it hard to write from a first person perspective - though I do try and do it I don't really feel like I've got the balance on that right...

I meant to present it as an idea for consideration. And maybe for ultimate rejection. I started providing an account of Hacking and then considered some (what might be thought to be) implications of his view. Maybe he wouldn't endorse that... Maybe I won't either at the end of the day... I didn't meant to come across as forceful or stipulating, though. I apologise for any offence that I caused...

> I did not CHOOSE to be abused.

I'm not saying that people choose to be abused. I'm not saying that people who have been abused deserved it or earned it or asked for it or requested it or liked it or anything like that.

I'm not saying that people choose whether or not their parents hit them or are sexually involved with them or yell at them or break their limbs or attempt to smother them or whatever.

I'm saying that 'abuse' is an evaluative term that we apply to neutral descriptions of events (as featured in the last paragraph). To call the above acts 'abuse' is to label the above acts 'bad'. But more than that... Because there are things that are bad that aren't abuse... Sometimes... I wonder if there are harms that are caused by our labelling acts abuse. There could be harms that are outweighed by the goods of social change. But from a particular individuals perspective... I'm not sure...

I do think about the harms a lot, though. And choosing how to describe events, well, that is precisely what I DO have control over.

I *think* I get what you're saying - that it's not the events themselves, but our perception of the events that creates our "symptoms".

However - I disagree, and after a childhood of "don't tell", it seems like I can't help getting angry when I hear other adults saying "it's really not that bad", "you're just CALLING it abuse", etc. I know what I experienced, and we could call it "Positive Parenting!!!!!!!!!!!!" and the effects that it has had on me would still be the same.

I am going to have to respectfully withdraw from posting any more on this thread.

I think we don't really know how people felt back then, do you know of any records of how people felt? But I know humans are humans, and they feel, have emotions.
What circumstances do you feel abuse is good since you don't believe it should be labeled bad.

I feel things are what they, no matter how one labels it. I think we are pretty certain some abuses are bad, no matter how one labels it. I am sure my mom would say, well I just go up set, or I was trying to stop her from wetting the bed. But burning me with lightbulbs are bad no matter what the intention was. In fact I was told my bed wetting at an older age probably had to do with child abuse to begin with.

> I *think* I get what you're saying - that it's not the events themselves, but our perception of the events that creates our "symptoms".

No, that isn't what I'm saying either. If you lose your family and friends because of plague then I'm fairly sure that that is rather distressing. Whether or not we consider plague to be an act of 'abuse'. Similarly, if a person is hit or called names etc etc then they may well feel distressed by that and be harmed as a result of that.

> after a childhood of "don't tell"

It isn't about 'not telling' it is rather about *how* it gets told.

> I can't help getting angry when I hear other adults saying "it's really not that bad", "you're just CALLING it abuse", etc.

Sure - but that isn't at all what I'm saying.

Like I said... I don't think that these events are harmful *just* because of the social narratives this culture endorses... It might be that the benefits of prescribing and enforcing social change are worth some harms. I do think... That there are some harms that come from identifying with being a victim of 'abuse', however. And I do wonder a little about... Just how much of that is in our power *in the present* to alter.

There are different ways of dealing. I don't mean to upset your apple cart... I wish I could discuss this without people feeling upset... Maybe I'm simply not capable of conveying what I mean... Especially when it runs counter to current social norms and ideals and theories of what 'getting better' is all about...

> What circumstances do you feel abuse is good since you don't believe it should be labeled bad.

I'm not saying that abuse is good. I think that anyone who understands the concept of abuse understands that abuse is bad. That isn't what is at issue, here.

The issue is one of whether we label certain events 'good' or 'bad' or whether we simply describe them and their effects.

'My mother tormented me' has a very different feel to it than 'my mother yelled at me a lot and hit me'. It can hurt to be yelled at a lot and hit - I'm not denying that. But was my mother a *tormentor*? Was she an *abuser*?

Whether she was a 'tormentor' or 'abuser' or not seems to not follow from a neutral description of what happened and from a neutral description of the effects that her actions had on me. We can agree that she hit me and she yelled at me a lot. We can agree that that had many harmful effects on me. One was that I became shy around people because I expected them to hurt me. There are others, too. We can agree about the many harmful effects on me and still... Disagree about whether she was an 'abuser' or 'tormentor' or not. Similarly... We can agree that I felt hurt and small and scared and that that had many negative effects on me... While (at the very same time) disagreeing about whether I was a 'victim' and about whether my present symptoms signify 'traumatization'.

I think if you are a child and you are trying to develop correctly that anything can disrupt it for you. Everyone is unique and because we are unique we need to have parents who are attentive to our specific needs. I have 2 children who are very different. I do not treat them the same. I treat them depending on what they need at the time. It is basically having an attentive parent. I don't think that disasters can affect your development unless you have an inattentive parent who doesn't address your needs that resulted because of the disaster.

From what I have read about BPD, it starts with a sensitive or vulnerable child and then you add an invalidating environment for them. You might not have been abused at all but if your parents played mind games with you or just didn't know how to help you, so that you couldn't make sense of the world and develop properly you can still develop BPD. A less sensitive child can adapt to an invalidating environment. I have one very sensitive child and I thank God that I have worked through my issues and have the ability to help her develop correctly because in my opinion she would be the perfect candidate for BPD if she was in a bad environment. I have helped her make so much sense of the world and how she needs to interact with it.

Anyone ever read anything by psychologist Alice Miller?

She is pretty phenomenal, IMO, and she speaks directly to the issue of child abuse and the denial and minimization that society in general condones...
can't explain much now, but give it a good read, as she brings up some very interesting concepts.

Yes, Alice Miller is good, I think I have read most of her books at least the ones on child abuse.

I am feeling like I shouldn't have even asked this question.

I think we are mssing something important here in this conversation.

In past times and cultures, life was more difficult for children. And, now we know better. We know now, from the results of a rather large body of research, that children need, deserve protection, validation, love and a lot of positive attention from their parents if they are to grow into healthy, functioning adults. From this body of research we also know that there is a rather large continuum of how we accept and know and define the "good enough" parent. That seems to change according to the culture and resilience of the person. A good enough parent for me is not a good enough parent for you, etc.

However, we also know now that parental behaviors that were socially accepted in the past have caused traumatic illness in people as they grew. We know now that many acts toward children that people thought were not so bad are actually abuse. We know this, again, from research. We also know now that abuse comes in many forms--including emotional abuse. This abuse cased traumatic stress illness in many people.

Abuse is abuse. I don't think that there is a lot of room for a fluid definition about whether certain acts are abusive. Frankly, I believe that choosing not to call certain events abuse is denial and dangerous because it can lead to a repeat.

As a person who "suffers" from complex ptsd (much of it from physical, sexual, emotional abuse and neglect) I am grateful for my resilience. I know I can bounce back from almost any situation. I know that the parental neglect I endured was worse than the abuse for me. And I also know that the neglect and emotional abuse were extremely traumatic for me.

I recently told T that I know now that the neglect from my mother had a more deleterious effect than the sexual abuse. It took me a long time to realize this. Neglect over time can have a traumatic effect on the development of a child.

As for the waking up and choosing to stay in bed--if someone is suffering from depression, the choice is often not in their capacity to make. It's a dangerous attitude to use with someone who is ill by saying their actions are within their capacity to choose.

> In past times and cultures, life was more difficult for children. And, now we know better.

A lot of "us" do not know better. Awareness is not equally distributed throughout society.

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MissCharlotte said:
I know that the parental neglect I endured was worse than the abuse for me. And I also know that the neglect and emotional abuse were extremely traumatic for me.

I recently told T that I know now that the neglect from my mother had a more deleterious effect than the sexual abuse. Neglect over time can have a traumatic effect on the development of a child.

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We are all different. Simcha earlier was upset that I didn't label my neglect as abuse. I think that each person has the right to label their experience as they see fit. Labeling someone else's experience I think is crossing the line.

Charlotte, your experience was different from mine. I had a supportive dad which actually saved my life. If you have abuse and neglect going on it would make the neglect experience different than if you just had neglect going on from one parent only and support from the other parent (obviously it wasn't enough support but I am glad that there was at least some support).