[deliquesce]

i'm not sure if the whole story is going to come out now (otherwise i might talk forever)... BUT...

last thursday i saw my T for the last time. i had been seeing him every 2 weeks (sometimes more often, sometimes less) for close to two years. he had given me his email address, so in between sessions i would email him - not often (although he encouraged me to use it as often as i wanted), but just when i needed a bit of immediate feedback. i wouldn't say we were 'close' by any stretch of the imagination, and initially we had a very rocky relationship (my mistrust issues caused me dissociate), but lately i had been feeling that this was someone who was on 'my side', who was committed to seeing me get better, who would be gentle if i ever opened up about childhood stuff, and who had the skills and competency to offer me hope enough to get out of my depression.

anyway, long story short - due to some of the stuff we talked about last week, he said he wouldn't be able to keep our discussion private and that he would have to notify the local mental health team. i told him that i didnt think it was necessary, and moreover that i thought such a referral would be unhelpful (i had spoken to this team before, and they only served to distress me more) but he was insistent and did what he wanted to do anyway.

he then asked me if i would be able to meet with him next week at a given time (he has never done this before - he's always left it up to me to decide whether or when i came back or not). i started to explain that i didnt want to meet with him anymore. he cut me off and said that wasn't his question - he wanted to know if i was free to book me in, otherwise he would offer me a different time. i said that i didnt want to see him again. we then sat in silence for a few (loooong) minutes. i then got up and he saw me out of the room. i think through most of this i was crying.

i dont know what i want from this, i'm sorry. just to vent, perhaps. maybe also a hug. i'm so angry at him for making the referral to that other team, because without that, i would still be seeing him next week and have a chance at getting better. i'm sad because i won't be seeing him again - he's the first psychologist i've actually stuck with, and he meant a lot to me. i'm angry at myself for missing him, when i know he doesnt care two pence for me.

anyway. i dont know. i could really do with a hug; i'm not doing very well as of late. my pdoc is on leave - if he was here, we would have talked through this already and i would be feeling better. but i think my pdoc wouldn't understand how much of a loss it is to me - he would just see it as a business relationship coming to an end, maybe not recognise the emotional investment i've had to make.

pretty much, all of my significant support is gone right now. my pdoc comes back in a month. i dont know how i will make it.

[pachyderm]

Originally Posted by deliquesce

he meant a lot to me. i'm angry at myself for missing him, when i know he doesnt care two pence for me.

(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((deliquesce)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

I may be totally wrong, but it sounded as though he may have gotten too concerned, and thought he was doing something that would help you, but instead scared you.

(((((((((((((((((((((((deliquesce))))))))))))))))))))))

I agree with Pachy - it sounds like he cares about you very much, and wanted to be sure you would be safe...

This doesn't have to be all or nothing....if there are positive things that you got from the relationship (and it sounds like there definitely were), you can still go back. It would be okay. I have quit therapy before because of something T did that hurt me, but we talked, and I ended up going back, and I am so grateful that I did.

Maybe if you go back, you and he can discuss in a calmer moment under what circumstances he feels that he has to call the mental health team? Perhaps the two of you can come to a new understanding.

I'm sorry your Pdoc is gone at such a hard time. Please come to PC for support - at the very least, we can listen and give you

[skeksi]

It sounds like he was worried and that's why he called in the team. Perhaps this was a poor choice, given that you hadn't liked dealing with the team before. It seems like you felt pushed by his suggesting a time (as opposed to offering, as he usually does)? Maybe you can make an appointment to discuss this with him--he may not have realized how you were feeling until too late?

I'm sorry the appointment went so poorly.

[gimmeice]

((((((((((((((( deliquesce ))))))))))))))))))))))))))

I am sending you many many hugs,
I agree with what others have said that maybe you should make an appointment with your T to discuss this even if you never see him again after that. I think it is important to get those feelings out but I know that these things are also very difficult, just remember we are always here for you.

[Izzyparker]

Sometimes when the therapy reaches a scary point for the client, it seems the only solution is to leave. I've left when I was overwhelmed with the ideas that my t was suggesting. I've learned to stick it out through those scary times, because often it's the most helpful idea in the long term.

I agree with everyone else. It does sound like your t does care about you and in fact is quite worried about you.

You can always call and get your appointment back. Therapists usually leave their doors open.

[chaotic13]

Maybe he made a bad choice, maybe you made a not so great choice, there seems to be a lot going on in this situation.

All I can offer is that you owe it to yourself to end therapy in a way that feels right to you. From what you wrote here, you seem to have some regrets about how you left things with your T. You might try and let things settle a little bit, figure out what you want, and then call him back and set up one more visit. You will be able to tell him how his decision hurt you, hear his explanation, and move on from there.

The last time I was in the ... "F this I quite therapy" situation, making that call and going to the [last] session was honestly one of the hardest things I made myself do. But I made it about ME and what I wanted before closing the book on therapy. That session turned out to be a very important session.

I hope you can figure out what you really want, and then have the courage to take steps to get it.

[imapatient]

Question for clarification: What is "the local mental health team?" I've never heard of that: are you outside the US?

The issue with what you said could be about you or about him. Maybe there's something personal to him that means he can't continue to see you, and likely if it's personal to him he can't get very specific with you. There seems like there could be multiple reasons why he couldn't keep the discussion private--about the topic, you, or him.

[phoenix7]

deliquese

it sounds like he does care about you and does want you to come back - maybe you could go for one more session to discuss it? if you have had such a good relationship before does this have to bring it to a close?

I stopped seeing my T after she said if i mentioned self harm she would have to tell the psych at my work but i went back and discussed it with her (ok it took me a while to go back) I know she has to tell someoone if she thinks im at risk of harm to self or others - they have to - and probably thats what your T did - which proves that he does care - maybe he misunderstood your intentions but he does care.

I am sending all the I have your way P7

[Angel_of_the_Past]

Originally Posted by chaotic13

You might try and let things settle a little bit, figure out what you want, and then call him back and set up one more visit. You will be able to tell him how his decision hurt you, hear his explanation, and move on from there.

I like what Chaotic 13 said. Many times when my relationship with my T hit a rough spot my first instinct was to run. I was hurt and wanted to lick my wounds. But with some support from my PC friends I was able to call my T, set up another appt then talk through it. Our relationship continues today.

So...let things settle then call T and talk.

Hugs,
Angel

[tarabug922]

I hope you're feeling better and I hope that you can go back and see your T to settle some things.

Love and Hugs,
Tara

[deliquesce]

oh wow. thanks so much for all of your replies, guys - it really means a lot to me that you've all taken the time to respond.

i am... confused about whether he really cares about me or not. i have thought this over a lot, and i think that yes, he was probably convinced that i intended to self harm, but as to whether he cared... ???

when i asked him not to call the mental health team, his response was that he would look bad if he ended up at coroner's court and said that he hadn't made the referral even though he knew i was having thoughts of self harm. he said all i had to do was to tell the team i didnt want to talk to them and then they would leave me alone. to me, that speaks more about him being concerned about his own professional image than any real desire to 'help' me. if he thought the referral would be helpful, then he wouldn't have suggested me not talking to them, right?

as a side issue (and it really is very small compared to the larger 'betrayal') - he promised me that all the team would do would be to call my mobile - that they wouldn't even intrude and call my house number. i'm a bit angry/upset with him for making that promise, because as it is, the team showed up on my front door and wouldn't leave until i had spoken to them. that kind of terrified me.

Originally Posted by earthmama

Maybe if you go back, you and he can discuss in a calmer moment under what circumstances he feels that he has to call the mental health team? Perhaps the two of you can come to a new understanding.

yes... i think this is a good idea. and certainly a conversation i'll be having with my pdoc in case things inadvertently turn weird there also. i was surprised when my T called the team, because we had previously spoken about self harm before and he had been happy to leave it alone. all he's done in the past was to either tell my pdoc, or ask me to make another appointment with him so he'd know i'd be safe until we next met. both of these options i'm ok with - if i make a promise to meet with him again, i'll keep it; if my pdoc thinks it's necessary to take further actions, well... i know that if my pdoc thinks it's necessary then it probably is. his foremost concern is to keep me out of hospital, because he thinks it would be bad for me, so if he recommended something similar, then i know i'd be in dire straights.

i think the deal breaker for me now is that i won't be able to be honest with him in the future, out of fear that he will refer me to them again. i was really upset when i knew they were going to call me, and it turned into pure fear when they showed up at my house wanting to take me away if i didnt make the right responses.

Originally Posted by chaotic13

Maybe he made a bad choice, maybe you made a not so great choice, there seems to be a lot going on in this situation.

All I can offer is that you owe it to yourself to end therapy in a way that feels right to you. From what you wrote here, you seem to have some regrets about how you left things with your T. You might try and let things settle a little bit, figure out what you want, and then call him back and set up one more visit. You will be able to tell him how his decision hurt you, hear his explanation, and move on from there.

The last time I was in the ... "F this I quite therapy" situation, making that call and going to the [last] session was honestly one of the hardest things I made myself do. But I made it about ME and what I wanted before closing the book on therapy. That session turned out to be a very important session.

I hope you can figure out what you really want, and then have the courage to take steps to get it.

thank you so much for this post, chaotic. i will definitely let things settle, and probably talk it over with my pdoc before deciding what to do. i think one thing that makes me reluctant about going back is that it's almost like... saying 'hey, it's fine that you completely fked me over, i'll keep coming back for more, and be the same pleasant person i always am'. not going back is kind of like my only way of saying 'what you did was wrong by me'. but he knew that, even as he did it. so i dont know what he could say that would make things better. sorry would be nice, i guess, but i doubt he'd ever do that, because essentially i think the decision was about him, not me.

Originally Posted by imapatient

Question for clarification: What is "the local mental health team?" I've never heard of that: are you outside the US?

yeah, i'm in australia. we have mental health teams attached to most hospitals here... they deal with all the crazies having emergencies - try to keep them out of hospital by offering support/on-site assessments, or do follow up care with them after they leave hospital. a team is mainly comprised of nurses and social workers, but apparently there are a few psychologists and psychiatrists also.

umm... long post, sorry!! but thank you once again *everyone* for your posts here. with your support i might wrack up the courage to see him once more... but i'm scared, because i don't think he cares... and why do i want something (=being vulnerable) from someone who doesnt care about me?

[imapatient]

"when i asked him not to call the mental health team, his response was that he would look bad if he ended up at coroner's court and said that he hadn't made the referral even though he knew i was having thoughts of self harm"

There are certain must-act triggers for mental health professionals that compel them to report someone they think is in danger of self-harm (or harm to others). It's a trip-wire, and if you say something that fits the trip-wire criteria, they have no choice--professionally.

"he said all i had to do was to tell the team i didnt want to talk to them and then they would leave me alone. to me, that speaks more about him being concerned about his own professional image than any real desire to 'help' me. if he thought the referral would be helpful, then he wouldn't have suggested me not talking to them, right?"

You hit the trip wire (I won't talk about what it is where I am, but I think I know what to say/not say conceptually). He had to report. If he told you you don't need to talk to them, whatever that's about, it likely could mean that he didn't think you were enough at risk to require them to take steps beyond the initial one or two of reporting and contact, hence don't need to get into their care, but needed to report you. I know it seems incongruent, but reporting operates by a certain logic and then the follow-up part by another, as it seems for where you are and other places I know of. There also can be a time-delay in which your mindset changes between T referring and the team contacting you to hear what you had to say.

"essentially i think the decision was about him, not me."

Without knowing the situation first-hand, I have to disagree. Mental health professionals (almost all) don't do something drastic like reporting someone in your shoes out of self-interest. He had nothing to benefit from it. It's certain that he will have to answer to others about why and what he did. If not referring when required can harm him professionally, referring people when it's not warranted can be bad for him professionally, too. A great deal of effort and money goes into showing up at someone's house like that. No one wants to have a T in their system who does that carelessly, and that's a personal incentive for a T not to abuse the process.

[ECHOES]

I really hope you can find another T to who is independent and whom you can trust.

Maybe while waiting for your pdoc to return, you can keep posting here and begin looking for another T?

[deliquesce]

thank you for your post, imapatient. that's really something i hadn't considered (about over-reporting harming him too) and i think what you said makes sense. i think it really took me by surprise, is all, because we had talked about self harm in the past and he had never reported and so i thought this time would be the same. i'm angry at him for changing the rules without telling me.

thank you for the hugs, echoes. i am reluctant to start looking for a new T... so much history to go through again, having to learn to trust a new person, also now being afraid that saying the wrong thing will get me in trouble. but i think ultimately that i will need therapy to help me with my depression, so i guess eventually i will have to return to therapy in some form.

i will keep posting here while pdoc is away and hopefully make a decision about whether to go back to old T or not when he returns. i think that at this point, a break from T is probably the best idea, though.

[phoenix7]

when my T said that if i talked of self harm she would have to tell my onsite T about it - it stunned me and made the subject offlimits as far as i was concerned - I didnt want my onsite psyche to know I had cut myself and i didnt want him to know if i had further thoughts of self harm - I felt like she had put out a hand and then when i went to take it taken it away - i didnt go back for 3 months - it was a bad 3 months and eventually i went back and straight out told her how i felt things have been better since - there is still a point where i will not tell her how i feel until i have dealt with it and then I ask fr things i can do next time to stop it getting bad - this is the way i dealt with it - I hope you find a way that works for you P7

[deliquesce]

yes... i have been thinking, if i go back to old T, that the suicide/self harm topics will have to be off limits. i wonder if he will respect that, or if i say "i'm not going to talk about that" if he will immediately assume the worst and call the mental health team on me again.
P7 - how does it work for you? does your therapist respect that you won't talk to her about certain things at certain times now?

[phoenix7]

I just dont tell her about it, and i didnt tell her that i wouldnt be tellng her about it in the future - I said i didnt want my work psyche to know and she said ok then she would call a mental health team if she was really worried as she would have to hand it on to someone and i said ok -
because i know thats what she has to do if she feels im in harms way

- so now I dont talk about it until the moment has passed - i see her about every two weeks - so I may bring in somthing i have written about how i felt or the feeling of wanting to self harm and say i dont feel like that now but what can i do if i feel like that again or what can i do to stop from getting to that stage - that way she can still help me - it means i am alone when things are really bad - sometimes then i will come here or to the ptsd board and that helps P7

[imapatient]

Originally Posted by deliquesce

yes... i have been thinking, if i go back to old T, that the suicide/self harm topics will have to be off limits. i wonder if he will respect that, or if i say "i'm not going to talk about that" if he will immediately assume the worst and call the mental health team on me again.

I can tell you for sure that he will object to self-harm being off-limits. You've just witnessed how seriously that issue is taken by T's and other mental health pros. I think it would be unethical for a T to accept treating a person while deliberately ignoring self-harm issues.

But what you say is what you say, and he can't read your mind about what you're thinking and not saying.

Obviously you know you should process all of this stuff with him, right? It can only help. You’ve been through a lot lately. Take advantage of every opportunity to get or explore getting help.

[phoenix7]

i am by no way saying that i made the right decision or saying that it is the right thing to do - i think it is much better to discuss with your T your feelings at the time - I just dont have the guts to do it - please do whats right for you and remember its JMO P7 (just because Im a chicken doesnt mean you have to be - )

[deliquesce]

thanks for both of your posts, imapatient & P7...

i *know* it is probably better to discuss things with him first, but... i'm a chicken. or rather, i just don't like being put into trouble. i don't know what the boundaries are anymore. i thought i had them figured out, and then T changed them, and so now i'm uncertain about everything.

i think i will need to go back to basics. talk to my pdoc about he will do if i ever talk serious self harm stuff with him. talk to pdoc about what he thinks I should do with T. pdoc is a caring person, and often takes on the role of my 'protector', so i'm about 95% sure that he'll say to take a break. he doesn't like me getting hurt.

i think though that i really need to get some sort of therapy (more than i'm getting with pdoc) and will have to find a psychologist somewhere. i'd prefer to return to T because he has my whole history. but that would involve addressing the crap he threw at me last time. i guess the worst that can come of it is that i decide for sure that i don't want to work with him anymore... instead of being left uncertain like i am now.

im really sorry if this is disjointed, it's nye tomorrow night and i'm down on myself and dissociating.

[phoenix7]

I hope things are a little better for your now, this thread has really made me think - I am going to discuss boundaries with my T on monday if i can stay non-chicken LOL I am also going to discuss the self harm thing - I guess if i carry on this way i am denying myself help at the times when i most need it - thankyou for making me think maybe a little clearer - take care P7

I dont think you're a chicken, I think you are hurt and wondering what to do next - i am glad you have your pdoc to discuss this with.

[deliquesce]

P7, you're such a sweetie. it's obvious to me that you are a really caring and generous soul around these boards .

let me know how your discussion with T goes on monday! i have calmed down from the hurt of my T now, and am feeling ok. pdoc returns on the 12th, but he said he would try to talk to me before then. you are right that if we don't talk about the self harm thing, then we are denying ourselves help when we most need it. i think it's such an important thing to be open about... that you need to be certain about how it will be met, and to know that those actions will still keep you safe.