[mixedup_emotions]

So far, I've seen my T 2x since we started individual therapy (total of 4 times if you count the marriage counseling, total of 5 times if you count group therapy).....

I am in a "fight or flight" mode....and flighting seems to be the most attractive choice....

I am so confused by all the feelings I have. I am upset that my T was so straightforward with me about my marriage, telling me that there is basically no hope for my husband to change. I KNOW that I cannot change him....but I asked specifically, "What if he were to go to therapy, marriage counseling, etc. and get help?"....My T shook his head "no", saying that it would take years of therapy and that he already showed that he was not fully invested in moving in that direction.

Then, the T tells me at my last session that I am not being direct enough with my husband which is allowing him to hang onto hope. Yet, I don't know how I even feel about it all. It's true, I don't think I will ever find happiness in this marriage and that I said that the best case scenerio is that with intense therapy, etc., I'd be settling for "good enough".

What makes me so upset too is that my husband is doing all the right things - working on his behavior, giving me my space, being respectful, started individual therapy, saw a new psychiatrist to adjust his meds....

But then, I read up on the cycle of abuse....this is the "honeymoon phase"....Or is it? Could it be real? Or, once I give him the comfort that I'm not pursuing divorce will he go back to his usual ways? I'm leaning towards the latter because it seems impossible to me that he could "change" overnight!

I am soooo torn. Add to that, I was confident a week ago that I could make ends meet without my husband in the house - albeit a difficult road - we then have a big reorg at my work and now my new boss is someone I've worked with for 9 years who HATES me. And my CFO said that if we don't make money this year, we're all going to need to find new jobs.

WHAT TIMING!!! How on EARTH am I going to move forward with divorce when I have THAT hanging over my head!!!??!?!!?

And then, with the whole group counseling situation....I didn't know diddly about gestalt therapy and went in there doing all the wrong things....Now I feel totally embarrassed and guilty for sabotaging the session and doing it all wrong....with all of those people....OMG....How am I going to face them tomorrow???? They welcomed me so nicely, and I felt so good after leaving....until it dawned on me what had really happened.

I feel like either canceling altogether and never looking back....or if I go, I feel the need to face it head-on admitting how embarrassed I am and how guilty I feel about last week....leaving myself vulnerable for whatever response I get.....

UGH. I am just so upset right now.

Ria

[Christina86]

((((((((((Ria)))))))))))))

Go to therapy! Let us know how it went. I know it's hard to deal with stuff that's happened before - but letting it hang over your head will make you feel worse overall.



What is sounds like with your divorce is that you're trying to find excuses to "put off" making a decision. Yes, being in a potentially unpleasant financial state sucks - but if you do follow through and get a divorce, overall it's doubtful that it would be *that bad* for your financially. It might also benefit you emotionally and psychologically if you DO pursue a divorce, but only you can really determine that if you're being honest with yourself.

Go to your group therapy. Explain that you don't know everything about the group process and you messed up. If they're a group of good people, more of them will likely forgive you for "messing up" than will criticize you for what happened. If you still leave the next group meeting with a bad feeling about what's transpired, then you can consider quitting. But give it another chance.

Okay - Breathe. It's ultimately your decision with what you do in your life, but I think right now you need the support of a group of individuals who might care about you or possibly understand - especially with all that's happening in your life right now.

[deliquesce]

I am so confused by all the feelings I have. I am upset that my T was so straightforward with me about my marriage, telling me that there is basically no hope for my husband to change. I KNOW that I cannot change him....but I asked specifically, "What if he were to go to therapy, marriage counseling, etc. and get help?"....My T shook his head "no", saying that it would take years of therapy and that he already showed that he was not fully invested in moving in that direction.
i can see why that would be really confronting. but maybe T is just trying to be kind. nevertheless, it is up to you to decide whether you think H is fully invested or not.

Then, the T tells me at my last session that I am not being direct enough with my husband which is allowing him to hang onto hope. Yet, I don't know how I even feel about it all. It's true, I don't think I will ever find happiness in this marriage and that I said that the best case scenerio is that with intense therapy, etc., I'd be settling for "good enough".
oh hell, it's my opinion that you don't have to be black/white in this situation, right now. you can leave things open for the time being.

What makes me so upset too is that my husband is doing all the right things - working on his behavior, giving me my space, being respectful, started individual therapy, saw a new psychiatrist to adjust his meds....

But then, I read up on the cycle of abuse....this is the "honeymoon phase"....Or is it? Could it be real? Or, once I give him the comfort that I'm not pursuing divorce will he go back to his usual ways? I'm leaning towards the latter because it seems impossible to me that he could "change" overnight!
i think you're right - he isn't changing overnight. but he is trying. but you know - you don't need to give him the 'comfort' of not pursuing divorce. you can say that you will not pursue it for now, but that if things don't get better in the relationship, that you won't rule it out for good. he might make good and then things might be great. or he might make good for a year and then slip back into old behaviours. just because you rule it out once, doesn't mean you've ruled it out indefinitely.

And then, with the whole group counseling situation....I didn't know diddly about gestalt therapy and went in there doing all the wrong things....Now I feel totally embarrassed and guilty for sabotaging the session and doing it all wrong....with all of those people....OMG....How am I going to face them tomorrow???? They welcomed me so nicely, and I felt so good after leaving....until it dawned on me what had really happened.
what did really happen? i know nothing about gestalt either. but certainly, if you were 'sabotaging' the session, then someone would have called you out on it. i bet they were willing to let things slide because you are new - they are showing understanding and compassion - a great sort of group to be in!!

i think you should go back and see how things go. maybe take a back seat if you want to figure out group dynamics and how things are 'meant' to work. but you shouldn't leave because of one poor session. you felt great about how things went - don't let you intellectualise yourself out of that great feeling. hang on to it, and maybe when you are able to engage in the therapy the way it is 'meant' to run, you will get out even more .

[sunrise]

Originally Posted by mixedup_emotions

So far, I've seen my T 2x since we started individual therapy (total of 4 times if you count the marriage counseling...) I am upset that my T was so straightforward with me about my marriage, telling me that there is basically no hope for my husband to change.

Does your T know you and your marriage well enough to be sure about that?

Then, the T tells me at my last session that I am not being direct enough with my husband which is allowing him to hang onto hope. Yet, I don't know how I even feel about it all.

So your T is telling you to be direct about something you are not even sure you want to do? That doesn't sound good. It seems like the first step is making up your mind, then you can worry about how you deliver your message. I think sometimes T's need to be take a step back and let the client discover what they need to do instead of telling them what they need to do. I know my T admitted having that temptation to me. He says it's countertransference and he takes precautions to guard against it. The T has to let your marriage be your own marriage and let you make your own decisions.

I don't think I will ever find happiness in this marriage and that I said that the best case scenerio is that with intense therapy, etc., I'd be settling for "good enough".

This is a long journey and you do not sound ready to make the decision to end the marriage. That's OK, there is time in the future to end it if you come to that decision. Give yourself time to go slow if that's what you need.

What makes me so upset too is that my husband is doing all the right things - working on his behavior, giving me my space, being respectful, started individual therapy, saw a new psychiatrist to adjust his meds....

It sounds like he is trying, which is a good sign.

But then, I read up on the cycle of abuse....this is the "honeymoon phase"....Or is it? Could it be real?

You won't know if you don't give it a chance.

Or, once I give him the comfort that I'm not pursuing divorce will he go back to his usual ways? I'm leaning towards the latter because it seems impossible to me that he could "change" overnight!

Maybe you don't need to guess but can just sit back and see what actually happens.

I am soooo torn.

It's OK to be ambivalent. Trust yourself and go with that--you don't need to make big decisions today. If your T is really pressuring you to leave the marriage and you simply are not ready, then consider getting some space from the T.

And then, with the whole group counseling situation....

Why are you in group counseling? I would be interested to hear more about gestalt group therapy. I know a little bit about individual gestalt therapy, but not group, so I'm very curious to hear what happened.

[darkrunner]

Ria,
I'm sorry you are dealing with so much right now.

I agree with what the others have said, and it makes me a little uneasy about how your T is treating the situation with your marriage.
These decisions are never easy, and I don't think they should be made in haste.

I don't see the harm in giving your H an opportunity to redeem himself and get his life back on track, as long as in the meantime he is not hurting you or your family (which it sounds like he is not).
Separations can lead to reunions, which would be the preferred route if he can really change. And if not, then the decision to divorce can be made at that time.

Can you talk to your T about your thoughts about all of this and how you were taken aback by his advice?

Hang in there (((((((((((((((((Ria)))))))))))))))))))))
and keep us posted on how you are.

[mixedup_emotions]

Thanks everyone. I guess I'm just so confused about how I feel.

When I had my first individual session, I was clear about what needed to happen. My husband was out of control, being verbally and emotionally abusive, disrespectful...he even went as far as offering me sexually to a neighbor....and wanted his girlfriend in exchange. It's been 15 years of struggling.

Even without the behavior issues, we have very little in common, have very little interest in each others lives, don't enjoy the same things.....We are on two totally different planes intellectually....and I have absolutely NO interest in having sex with him. The thought disgusts me.

I wanted OUT.

But then by the 2nd visit, my husband had started working on the behavior issues, etc. and I started to feel differently. Do I feel as though I'll be happy with him? NO. Do I want to have sex with him? HELL NO.

I really just wanted him to agree to leave, but he won't leave the house and insists that my feelings will change since he's getting help now for his issues.

The T says that I am not being direct because I keep saying things like "I THINK it would be best if you leave the house....I don't THINK there's a relationship to salvage".....He says I am leaving my husband with hope and that's what he's hanging onto...thus the reason he is trying so hard.

UGH.

One of the goals that I set up with T is trying to figure out why I attract the people that I do (not just my husband but others as well). That's why he suggested group counseling. Part of me feels as though he asks every single person that walks in his door to join group. I figured I'd give it a try.

"i think you should go back and see how things go. maybe take a back seat if you want to figure out group dynamics and how things are 'meant' to work. but you shouldn't leave because of one poor session."

It's funny you mentioned that....At one point during the session, one member chimed in saying we were going into too much "content".... I was taken aback by that statement, so I switched gears to more listening....Yet, when I got back the notes from the T, apparently I missed out on opportunities to provide feedback to others on how I am "experiencing them". I have a lot to learn. I just feel a a bit mortified...LOL. I am trying to think to myself that I am only human.....

I'll do a separate post about the gestalt therapy experience. I have another session tonight, so I'm sure I'll have more to say if it's not all spinning in my mind....

Ria

[chaotic13]

Mixed_up... I am struggling with the same indecision. When I first started therapy... I don't know what I wanted, but I think it was to "GET OUT!" At that point all of I was thinking about was... "I want to leave this life, to be free of my oppression and all the responsibilities that I felt were holding me back from being happy." I want to get the confidence I need to stop the blood letting and get this depressed freeloader who was bringing me down out of my life. However, as I started to look at the relationship, I realized...it was just all him. I was looking back into my past with rose-colored glasses and just remembering the freedom aspect of my life before marriage. As I started to dig around in my past and really started remembering the down side of being free.

Like your H, mine has some serious issues of his own that when combined with my issues compound our relationship issues. Sometimes I step back and realize that he is trying (in his own way) to make changes to improve our marriage. This little bit of progress has been enough to create doubt about whether I REALLY want out. I'm questioning if my assumption that I really cannot continue to live the status-quo AND be more of who I want to be is really incompatible. I think I owe it to myself, our kids, and to our marriage to really explore if having both is possible. Maybe this is just me intellectualizing and still trying to ram a square peg in a round hole... but I think for me to abandon my marriage I need to know that I'd exhusted all possibilities to cross the great divide.

I am thankful that my T understands this and has never tried to push the idea that my situation is hopeless.

[mixedup_emotions]

Chaotic, I'm sorry you're in the same boat as me - but it's a relief to know that someone else is. Perhaps it's not as uncommon as we thought. it sounds like I need to see your T....LOL....

Originally Posted by mixedup_emotions

I am so confused by all the feelings I have. I am upset that my T was so straightforward with me about my marriage, telling me that there is basically no hope for my husband to change. I KNOW that I cannot change him....but I asked specifically, "What if he were to go to therapy, marriage counseling, etc. and get help?"....My T shook his head "no", saying that it would take years of therapy and that he already showed that he was not fully invested in moving in that direction.

i am a bit concerned with your t thinking he can predict the future and tell you there is no chance for your marriage. he just doesn't know that. no one can. please be careful not to give all your power away to t. it is your decision--and only your decision--as to whether or not to try to save your marriage. personally, i wouldn't rush into any decisions about something so huge, especially when your h is trying to make changes.

What makes me so upset too is that my husband is doing all the right things - working on his behavior, giving me my space, being respectful, started individual therapy, saw a new psychiatrist to adjust his meds....

But then, I read up on the cycle of abuse....this is the "honeymoon phase"....Or is it? Could it be real? Or, once I give him the comfort that I'm not pursuing divorce will he go back to his usual ways? I'm leaning towards the latter because it seems impossible to me that he could "change" overnight!

lasting change takes time imo. but the only way you'll know if the changes are real is if you give it time to find out. maybe your h will revert to his old ways, maybe he won't. i think there are a lot of options besides staying in a bad marriage and divorce. you might want to get some info on setting boundaries as it does seem to be working with your h. just keep setting them and don't revert to only talking about problems.

[phoenix7]

ok are you really one of my sisters in disguise? one of smy sisters has been in an unhappy relationship for over 20 years - when she finally left for good (I hope) he started being nice and caring - but soon reverted to his old self - she was alway wanting him to leave - he never did - in the end she left - she is still saying things like she does not love him - would never want to have sex with him - couldnt live with him - but when he rings up and cries she feels sorry for him and goes to see him - then she gets upset that she has done that - I tell her 20 years of conditioning cant be gotten over with in a few months

Time apart sometimes helps clarify things - my sister was told to make a list of all the reasons that she left her husband and look at them when she thought there was hope for the relationship - and see if they had changed. Maybe you could try that?

with the group therapy - they will know you are new - you arnt expected to know everything all at once - although it feels that way - if it is helping you please keep going - you deserve to feel better - take care P7