[Shadow Wraith]

Today, my wife has called me twice today wanting to use our daughter as a pawn. Today is my wife's day/night to watch my daughter. Therefore it is my wife's responsibility. Quite frequently, whenever my wife doesn't feel like watching my daughter, she will call me. Tonight she wants me to watch our daughter because she claims it's not fair that I don't take care of my daughter because she is sick. I told my wife that whenever our daughter gets sicks, and I am watching her, I don't call my wife and ask her to watch her for me. That's not her responsibility. My wife also says that my daughter has been repeatedly asking for me. My wife knows that I love spending time with our daughter and that I hardly ever say no. I'll just put down whatever I am doing and go get her. I, being like a doormat, would always say, "yes". My wife likes to twist things around and make it seem like I don't want to see our daughter.

Then a few minutes later, out of spite, she says she is going to keep our daughter away from me except on the days she sees fit. She believes she can just unilaterally change our visitation schedule to spite me. This is the second time I've said no in the last couple of weeks. She just gets irate whenever I say no. She tries to take a hateful, punitive, and manipulative way of making it sound like I just don't want to spend time with our daughter. I could hear our daughter obviously upset in the background. I mention that during the upcoming summer that I will be watching our daughter even more. My wife said that during the summer, our daughter won't be getting sick as much. This indicates that my wife simply feels that it's all an issue of her perceived fairness.. She lashed out and called me selfish. Yet she is the one wanting to duck responsibility on a day that is designated for her. The thing is, my wife is only going to end up hurting herself. More importantly, by behaving childishly and abusively my wife is hurting our daughter indirectly. By taking time away from our daughter and I, my wife is hurting our daughter the most out of the three. If my wife really cared about her daughter getting to spend time with her father, she wouldn't restrict her from me. That makes absolutely no sense at all. I want a structured, balanced and fair visitation schedule. We have talked about divorce before and my wife wants full custody even though our visitation schedule is more like joint custody.

I know I am doing the right thing. I know that for me and, if it continues, our marriage, to stand up to her and just say no. I don't even have to give her any reasons. I have the right to say no. My wife is just going to have to accept that fact or leave me. I can't control what my wife does. I can control what I do.


On the other hand, I feel bad about not taking the opportunity to spend time with our daughter.

After reading both threads, it seems to me your daughter is being used as a pawn by both of you. If you are seeing a therapist, my suggestion is for you to print your posts for discussion with your therapist.

You and your wife may choose to remain in a state of misadventure. Your daughter essentially is powerless. She has the task of finding a way to muddle through the muck around her as best she can.

[Shadow Wraith]

Byzantine,

You are right about the state of "misadventure". I agree it is my daughter who is the loser in conflicts between my wife and I.

I appreciate your opinion about both using my daughter as a pawn. Perhaps inadvertently, I have in the past. I'm just not sure where in my posts you got the impression that I was using my daughter as a pawn. I am writing these to get a more objective outside opinion. Therefore, if you could point out where you perceive me as possibly using my daughter in our disputes, please point this out to me so I can change in that area.

Thanks

Originally Posted by TheByzantine

After reading both threads, it seems to me your daughter is being used as a pawn by both of you. If you are seeing a therapist, my suggestion is for you to print your posts for discussion with your therapist.

You and your wife may choose to remain in a state of misadventure. Your daughter essentially is powerless. She has the task of finding a way to muddle through the muck around her as best she can.

When your daughter wants to be with you but is not allowed to because you would rather make a point with your wife, your daughter loses.

To me, my view means little in comparison to your therapist's.

[lynn P.]

Are you still living in the same house as husband and wife or are you separated? I'm confused by your other thread where you discuss you're husband and wife, yet in this thread you talk about visitation. If you are separated - then you should get a lawyer to draw out a firm custody agreement, so there isn't all this confusion about who's turn it is. Just because she want's full custody - it doesn't mean she'll get it.

[walksinair]

This saddens me so very very much. My husbands first wife had a pattern somewhat like this . He always went to get his daughter no matter what, to make a long story short she began refusing him visitation then hiding her from us. And eventually we could not see her for years, now she is grown up we don't know were she is and she will not have anything to do with us . I have tied to contact her through various social media avenues and she ignores them. So I guess my jaded advise would be just be d''m glad you get to see her cherish every second! Get a calender and every time u have her when it is "your wifes job" write it down but take your daughter this will come in handy if there is a custody battle.

[Shadow Wraith]

Byzantine,

You make a good point. Maybe it does sound like I am trying to duck responsibility. However, our daughter frequently wants to see the parent that isn't watching her. She is about four years old. She has always been much happier around both of us. Most children would prefer for the parents to be together. I have no control over whether my wife wants to be with me or not.

When our daughter says that she misses her mother, I don't call my wife about it. If anything, our daughter needs structure. It is hard on her to be apart. Yet, if every time we call the other to take our daughter over to the other parent, our daughter would be shuttled back and forth constantly. It simply is not practical or possible to do this while we are separated. Besides the importance of as much structure and stability for our daughter, we both have lives of our own. I try to put my needs before my daughter's and up until my wife's before mine.

As far as my therapist goes, she knows about how hard it has been for me to say no to my wife. That is because I still love her and she is still my wife. However, through my therapist, she has really helped me become aware of how much of a doormat I have been. My wife also tends to exaggerate how she is always sick. If she isn't sick, then my daughter is. However, when my daughter is with me, she seems very healthy. My therapist believes she is a user and I must stand up to her. I must be more assertive. The couples counselor said to me in a private session with her that she would not blame me for being very upset with my wife and wanting a divorce. This is after the couples counselor saw us together and heard both sides. Her own side of the family has been accusing her of ducking responsibility lately.

Originally Posted by TheByzantine

When your daughter wants to be with you but is not allowed to because you would rather make a point with your wife, your daughter loses.

To me, my view means little in comparison to your therapist's.

[Shadow Wraith]

Hi Lynn,

My wife and I are living in two different places. It's complicated but neither of us have decided on a divorce. This isn't the first time we have been separated. Neither of us can really afford our own attorneys at this time. Because we both love our daughter, we set up a visitation schedule. We already have decided what property is who's. We both agree that the visitation schedule is fair. That is in theory. In practice there are few days she doesn't call me to watch our daughter all day. I love watching our daughter. Yet whenever my wife doesn't want to take care of her she asks me to watch her. Sadly, that has happened quite often in the past separations. I don't want it in this one.

Originally Posted by lynn P.

Are you still living in the same house as husband and wife or are you separated? I'm confused by your other thread where you discuss you're husband and wife, yet in this thread you talk about visitation. If you are separated - then you should get a lawyer to draw out a firm custody agreement, so there isn't all this confusion about who's turn it is. Just because she want's full custody - it doesn't mean she'll get it.

[Shadow Wraith]

Hi Walksinair,

You are probably right. I should probably just happy I get to see my daughter as much as I do. I've thought maybe it would be worth just completely shelving my needs until there is an actual divorce...if it ever happens. Keeping a record is a good idea as well. Thanks.

Originally Posted by walksinair

This saddens me so very very much. My husbands first wife had a pattern somewhat like this . He always went to get his daughter no matter what, to make a long story short she began refusing him visitation then hiding her from us. And eventually we could not see her for years, now she is grown up we don't know were she is and she will not have anything to do with us . I have tied to contact her through various social media avenues and she ignores them. So I guess my jaded advise would be just be d''m glad you get to see her cherish every second! Get a calender and every time u have her when it is "your wifes job" write it down but take your daughter this will come in handy if there is a custody battle.

[DivorcedWoman]

Wow, I'm sorry you are going through this. Separation and Divorce with kids is really challenging. I have BP and went through a rough custody battle. We worked with a custody mediator and that helped a lot. It doesn't sound like you're at that point yet, but I highly recommend one if you go the divorce route.

My ex and I don't necessarily get along, but if we have issues pertaining to our son we talk about them when our son at school, asleep or send the other one an email. Has your counselor recommended that you communicate via email or telling your wife that you'll call her back when she is calm or that you're not talking about your daughter if she is present?

My ex calls me off and on to take my son but it's usually work related. I rarely if ever ask him to take my son on my nights and many times he is busy so I do take it quite personally when a majority of the time he says no to me. In the past if he is unavailable, he would also say get a babysitter.

If you do go the divorce route, I'm not sure what state you are in, but in California it does seem like most of my friends and I have doen the 50/50 split. I've heard mixed information I've read online that some people and states say it's always in favor of the mom but from what I've seen in the last 5 years in my circle in California, the courts see the importance of the child spending time with both parents especially if the dad wants it and is prepared for it.

[LazyLogophile]

I'm not sure if my opinion is warranted, since I am not a divorcee, but I thought maybe I could shed a little light on the situation from your daughter's perspective, since I am the product of divorced parents.

Byzantine is right when he says that your daughter is the one who suffers when you or your wife keep her from seeing one another. I can't imagine how difficult it must be for you, since I have worried about how I would handle a breakup with my boyfriend now that we have a child together. It is hard not to fall into the trap of using the child to get to the other person, and you might be surprised at how much your daughter understands that (even if she is very young). I ended up being a go-between therapist for both my parents, constantly hearing how the other parent didn't measure up. If you can find the emotional strength, please try not to bad mouth your wife when your daughter is around. Even if your wife decides to try and "turn your daughter against you", so to speak, she will never be able to. Daughters have deep admiration for their fathers and as long as you love her and support her, she will never turn her back on you. I'm just saying that from personal experience. Children have unconditional love, so all that she will want is for the two of you to be happy and, most of all, to know that you both still love her. If she is being used, she will sense it, and she will be confused as to how much you both still love her. Try to be sensitive to that, if you are able.

I'm glad that you are in therapy. I think that will help you have a better relationship with your daughter when the storm of the separation blows over. It sounds like you already know that what the two of you are doing is wrong and is hurting your daughter immensely. The next time you feel the urge to keep her away from your wife out of resentment or hurt, remember how your daughter has the right to love BOTH of you, and how much you are hurting her with your actions.

The good news is, no matter what mistakes you've made so far in handling your emotions, your daughter will always forgive you and love you! :-) I am only speaking from personal experience, and I agree with Byzantine that my opinion or perspective (which is uniquely mine and may not even really apply to you) is worth much less than that of your therapist. Keep trying your best every day to handle each situation with dignity and grace. Make sure you take some time for you so that you have as much mental space and strength as you can to handle difficult discussions with your wife, or actions that she takes with your daughter that are irresponsible or hurtful. I think this will help you keep sound judgments, and hopefully prevent taking out your frustrations on your daughter.

Good luck! I'll keep you and your daughter in my thoughts. This, too, shall pass...

[Perna]

It sounds like the daughter is just another possession you all are having trouble dividing up and who is getting lost in the confusion you all are experiencing in your relationship with each other.

I think you need to get your relationship sorted out before you can hope to raise a healthy daughter. It could be your wife is actually using your daughter as a surrogate for herself, is missing you or wishing she could express her anger at you for leaving or the relationship not working, etc. Whatever you all are trying to accomplish with multiple separations, I don't think it is working? Save the money up, get a/lawyer(s) and make it official or do marriage counseling, send the child to another relative for awhile or something!