Cant save everybody

Ive started to see in my life that as I look around me there are people who talk of change and making a difference to the quality of their lives but as time passes I see that somethings will never change some people will never change, I wonder why people do this to themselves? is it an attempt to tell your life will get better? maybe a way to justify your existence? I mean I have BPD and i want to get better so next week i start with a psych, thats a change right? moving in the right direction right? where as if only spoke about it but did nothing it wouldnt be a change right? cause and effect, actions and consequences isnt that how it works, I do one thing to change another, but what happens when no matter what you change someone will always find another problem with who you are? how do I get back someones faith in who i am or what i can do? how do I take someone from the past and show them a future? Some people talk of rescue and when you reach out that hand they pull away.

This is in accord with perception's fundamental law: You see what you believe is there, and you believe it there because you want it there. Perception has no other law than this. Thus, if we judge attack to be what we want to see, we will see it; but if we want only love, we will see nothing else.

I Like that By thanks a lot never thought about it like that

Getting back someone's faith in you... that's a familiar feeling and a painful one. Maybe's it's really not their faith in us but our faith in ourselves that we are lacking - projecting - because of our mental illnesses??? The illness makes us more paranoid and susceptible to believing the worst in others and ourselves... idk just a thought ... as I have been having the same pains of late and thinking I have lost the love & respect (faith) of those I love. It's a painful, dark, lonely place to feel no one has faith in you.

We have to remember what these illnesses make us feel and that they are responsible for our irrational thoughts and feelings - so they're an illusion of the illness.

Im sorry to ehar that PBJ,

Ive tried hard to show the changes in my personality but they dont see the good the focus on the flaws and the past, I have faith in myself and I know all the changes im making are really for me, but i find it hard to change when others dont see taht change either, i have been and am working hard to control all aspects of my life in an adult fahsion but feel cut off or outcast just for caring or trying

That is a good question. Richardrahl, it is not easy to convince others to forgive or believe in you. Often people make quick judgements and maintain those judgements of others. It is human nature and when that happens and you have to understand that often others, through their own sense of self protection, forget that people are constantly changing and growing and learning. But, some people do not change, they remain the same and refuse the option for growth and unfortunately many people just believe that they are incapable of change and growth.

In your effort to once again try to get help and therapy and gain new knowledge, you are standing in a threshold between what you now know and what you can learn to know. And if you have decided to step forward into what you can learn to know, it will take time to actually learn to change, and believe that you can. The saying, "Old habits die hard" is very true. The important thing to remember is that "Change" can take place "IF" "YOU" truely make the decision to learn and practice "NEW BEHAVIOR PATTERNS".

Now, you teach English, right? Think about how so many students come to you and struggle to learn English and have to work at remembering each word and what it means and how to slowly form small sentences to convey simple messages. It does not become fluent over night. It takes practice over a long period of time by trying to express simple needs in a new way. And it takes a conscious effort to first think of what word is known and what word can be used to replace that known word in a totally different language. It really takes a conscious effort to push forward and slowly develope that whole new language. And, it is more challenging the older someone gets, but it "CAN" be done.

As you slowly learn English, you gain more power to be around those that speak and live that language. And, as you begin to do that more and more you feel more comfortable with those people more and more. And, there are different ways to learn a new language, some techniques are better than others, much like different kinds of therapy. If you are a good teacher, you will have many students who can slowly master the new language and feel confident about it. A therapist is the same, if a therapist is good, he/she will have many patients that will be more comfortable in overcoming their old habits and have the courage to take on new ways of overcoming whatever it is they are trying to overcome.

As far as the old bridges that were burned by old behaviors? Often it may be best to move on, even though there is regret. It is important to take on an individual desire for the new language that will eventually expose you to new people that will recieve you better. And the people that were old bridges may only serve to add to your belief that you may not be capable of learning a new language. If you tell the old bridges you are going to learn a new language, they will have doubts and will not respond by just the statement that you are "GOING" to "LEARN". It is just the way human nature is. And to truely take on a personal journey, it should be just that, a personal journey and total personal desire and belief and should not be threatened by those that may not believe that you can actually acheive your goal.

When I taught riding, the children that actually learned and got very good at it were not always the ones that had a natural affinity towards it. It was always the ones that had the true desire, no matter what other's negetive comments were, that ended up actually achieving.

My own daughter was told by one trainer that she would never be able to figure out how to ride a horse down to a fence and properly calculate the correct take off distance. My daughter did struggle and could not always complete a full course of jumps nailing every distance correctly. That did not stop her from pressing forward in gaining the knowledge to finally complete a whole course of fences and ride it to the point where every single distance was correctly achieved. The entire time my daughter was struggling to learn, that old trainer would see that one or two missed distances and had to comment that he was right in his assumption. It did not deter my daughter from continuing to strive for the goal of finally accomplishing the ability to ride a course and reach every correct distance. My daughter has finally accomplished that, because she truely wanted it for herself and did not accept the old criticisms of those who would not believe in her. She has ridden with the top trainer who trains the American Olympic Riding team and is extremely critical of riding skills. She was complimented for her achievement of the skills and even used as an example for others to observe the skills necessary for an accomplished ride through a course of jumps.

You have to understand that when you stand in the threshold of doubt, that it is YOU that will be the one that will ultimately decide the accomplishment. And it is YOU that will have to be willing to do the work in spite of those that think you will never achieve. You have to make a conscious decision that you will continue even if you misscalculate a maneuver. It does require dedication and true desire on your part. And you have to be willing to understand that there will always be those that will stand on the side lines and doubt you. So you must learn to ignore that and press forward with your own determination.

Open Eyes

I just want to add Richardrahl, that my daughter often stood alone in her efforts.
She had to remain self confident and that was constantly under scrutiny by others.

However, the new trainers saw that she worked very hard at trying to learn and accomplish her goal. They saw those who stood on the sidelines in doubt and how she ignored them and continued to work toward her goal. They never had to critique her as she was often already hard on herself and spent so much time struggling to learn and finally achieve. She was a dedicated student, and still is. And she became a better rider than her trainers. And she is now very respected in not only the sport of riding horses, but also in other areas of her life. And because she had to work so hard, she has the ability to pull every motion a part and teach others as well.

Often those that have natual affinities toward certain aspects in life do not make good teachers or councelors. It is those that have chosen to achieve and struggled to do so that possess the affinity to have compassion and understanding of others who wish to do the same.

Open Eyes

Well then they suck. I guess the only thing that will "win back" their faith in you is time - showing consistent change to your betterment I guess. I would keep my distance from them (if paossible) until you've had more time to work on yourself. Why would you want to be around someone that made ya feel bad anyway - life's hard enough.

I understand and have worked hard to change my thought process, adn I have managed to do this with some sucess, have I managed to change it completely? no I havent and sometimes I slip and those old thoughts creep back in and while they may only remain for a brief period of time, they remain long enough for me to cause damage.

As you well know opens eyes the last few months have been hard for me, stopping the pot and learning how to control certain aspects of my personality, I have been surprised by my progress but wish I could speed things along quicker, Im used to quick results and so Im also trying to learn to exercise more patience.

No matter where I turn the past is there weather it be my childhood or my adult life it is always there to remind me and others of what I am. The changes I know are something I know I have to make regardless of what happens in my realtionships but some of them we made to help me deal with said relationships adn yet I have failed time and time again, sometimes i wonder is it me? am I the broken one? or do I expect to much of others.

Thanks again PBJ, I understand waht you mean, but its hard to move away from someone you care about and it wasnt always this way.

I was a heavy heavy pot smoker for a long time, stoping that was the one of the hardest things ive ever had to do, so I do have faith in myself, adn I know I can change, Ive also been writting a book which will be launched very soon so I have great confidence in my abilities.

Everyday I change a little more, but with the past looming large behind me people dont see me, because I stand in the shadow of my past, and thats waht people focus on, they forget I exist, they look at the shadow, the shell, but never at the man

i would say reach for a hand that reaches back !

she always did moonbeam, just never realised it was too late

Richardrahl, as a teacher, you do know that one cannot master a new language over night. If one does not have a natural affinity for something or has learned bad habits it really takes time and dedication to succeed. And no one aquires perfection no matter how hard the journey there is always going to be a time for error and another opportunity to again press forward and learn. That is just life and the persuite of happiness.

In the example I gave you of my daughter, though she has gained so much knowledge in mastering all the workings of riding down to many fences and planning for the right take off, there is still unforseen errors that can be made. The horse can make the error even though she had prepared it for the right take off spot, it has and does happen. You simply have not been at it long enough, you must learn patience, and patience as we all know is a true virtue. Haste makes waste almost every single time.

You have put out some important efforts towards self improvement, you have jumped a few fences and found a good distance, but there are many more fences ahead and different distances to travel inbetween. I can tell you with the certainty of my own years, it is a life journey of continuous learning and you will be tested not only by others but by your own miscalculations. It is not in how we fall, but how well we are willing to get up and try again, even after many falls. It is entirely up to you, all I can do is tell you that it is possible, but it is up to you to do the work and stay the course.

Richardrahl, it is not an easy journey, it requires a personal vigilance and an open mind and there will be many moments where giving up will seem the only option.
Even if you find that significant other, it will still be a journey and constant challenge and it will take effort on both individuals to be willing to continue to make efforts in a journey as two together and yet the understanding of each other separately. You cannot even begin to have that until you learn more about yourself and learning how to control your own issues. Every single person has issues to work around.

My daughter spent years training a special horse in a partnership where both could ride a course and negotiate the distances for take off over several fences that were placed in different spots that changed with each competitive course. That horse was perminently injured by my neighbor's dog. My daughter was so upset, and even still is upset. She could not find a replacement and finally realized that horses are like people, all are unique, no two horses are the same. It made it very hard for her to accept the loss. She has a very young horse and he is tough and not as intelligent as the horse she spent so many years training. My daughter has had to learn that it will take time to be able to get back into any real kind of competition.
And she has already experienced some setbacks with the new young horse. It has been very challenging for her to not be able to compete where she had been competing and winning after so much work. This new horse is such a different ride and most people could not even stay on his back because he is so powerful over the fences that he can easily unseat any rider. She has been riding him bareback, I honestly don't know how she does it, neither does anyone else. This horse was almost put down because he was so challenging to train and the person who owned him was wealthy and impatient, and with a young warmblood horse, one can not be impatient, they take a long time to grow both physically and mentally. My daughter has decided that she will have no expectations for this young horse, she is only going to see what this horse can learn and do. I am very impressed with her ability to take that approach as I know she is so driven and competitive at heart. She trains him diligently and he is so hard to train because you cannot use force with spurs for forward motion or a crop, he does not respond, and she cannot even reward him with treats for good behavior, he doesn't get it. She is so challenged by this young horse, I can see it in her face. She is truely being tested, however, she has made progress.
This is a totally different kind of competition that she had never expected. My daughter is really getting tested on every level, especially in the patience department. And she cannot say with any certainty that this horse will progress to the level of being able to compete, but he does have the athletic ability to do so, it is that dam brain that is the challenge. And he is young and all baby and some days he gets it and then she takes him out and it is as if he never got it. It has been SUCH a CHALLENGE.

Now one of her trainers is trying to get her to start showing this horse. She will not rush it, she knows that he is not truely ready and she is controlling her strong desire to get into that show ring. And this is exactly what you are doing, you are trying to get into that show ring and you are just not ready yet.

Last year I was working with a dressage trainer on my Mustang. This trainer trains very slowly where others push horses along faster trying to get up to the higher levels. And some horses perform at those higher levels but do not truely last, they often break down or injure themselves because they were not brought along slowly enough. The one thing the trainer told me (she was a student of French Dressage)
is that if you miss the important first steps no matter how far you get you always have to end up going back to that missed step and start over to truely gain.

And you know what? She is so right because I have seen it time and again as trainers bring horses along too quickly and the horses break down, and then they have nothing, because they were too impatient.

The same is true for our brains and our personal progress. Haste makes Waste.

Open Eyes

This is a very interesting thread, with some truly insightful comments. I too have struggled many times to regain the faith and affection of people who seemed to dismiss me and move on, seemingly, without much thought, while I "wallowed" in it, much longer than the average person, questioning and berating myself for my shortcomings, for not being good enough. I have often marveled at how quickly other people can move on.

Well, I learned to change this kind of thinking, over much time and hard work, and you, Richardrahl, can grow and change also. I've learned to be kind to myself, and allow myself to move on and experience life, rather than spending inordinate amounts of time and effort on people who have dismissed me, who don't need or want me.

I like the analogy that Open Eyes gave of learning a new language. I often likened it to baby steps, often with some backsliding, but eventually reaching my goal. I wish the same for you!

Oh, and what Moonbeam2 said, "Reach for the hand that reaches back!"

"Everyday I change a little more, but with the past looming large behind me people dont see me, because I stand in the shadow of my past, and thats what people focus on, they forget I exist, they look at the shadow, the shell, but never at the man " ~quote from Richardrahl

I have experienced that behavior in others as well. It is very challenging and you and I are not the only ones to have that happen. And often, regretabily, we allow that to impede us from progressing.

You know? I dont have what you have, this BPD disorder, but I am very challenged by what I have. And to be honest, I have been like a fish in PC, out of water, flipping around, struggling for breath, and familiar waters to once again swim in. And I have been every bit the same outside PC. Ok, so at least I can come here to PC and notice that there is lot of flipping going on. And I suddenly realize that I am not alone in feeling like a fish out of water.

And in my teaching and even raising my child, and husband, and self, I have heard every kind of I can't that I somehow had to change into an I can. So, fair warning, you can " yes but" me til the cows come home and I will never run out of ways to say you can. Oh, and I am flapping around myself doing the same "I gotta keep trying every day". And I have over 1,200 posts and a Poohbah under my name to substantiate my long windedness in my efforts. LOL And unless someone else here has what I have, it is really hard to understand my struggle. And believe me, I have made several attempts to try to describe it both in PC and outside PC. And like you, I have been improving, but I am not really ready to compete again and swim freely "yet". But, I am working on it and through it and I have every intention of getting beyond it. And I have realized that I could not do it alone as I do have a therapist, but therapist is just a guide, I am really the one that has to keep trying and learning.

And I already know that I am going to make mistakes. It has been nice coming here and even in maybe some tit for tats here, I have had opportunities to really think about what each one of those tit for tats means. An opportunity for self evaluation and to really think about how things effect me in ways I may have not been aware of before. I do wish this had taken place when I was your age, because you are still young, even if you think you should be old enough to have mastered life relationships and yourself by now. And I can tell you again with a true certainty that it just doesn't happen over night, it takes time and it is like that for everyone, no matter what the issue is.

And there are always going to be other people who judge you and swim away. And no one goes through life without that occuring, no one. And the fact that you had that happen here and yet you came back to flip around and admit it, is a really important step in the right direction. But you do have to understand, other people here are flipping around too and if they do not move towards you, please don't blame them or take it out on yourself. You just have to keep trying and you still can reach out to others, only think carefully how you do that. And even then, your still going to slip and flip.

The one piece of advice I can give is that if you do slip and someone gets upset and you know what it is that you have done in error, at least state it to that other person. Just saying I am sorry is not enough, a validation of the slip is important, even if someone still swims away. If you validate your error, you have to understand that it does not mean you will gain trust. But it does help the other person and it does bring a certain amount of respect, even if it is not displayed openly. Unfortunately we are not always going to know when we slip, or exactly what we did to cause a slip, someone may just swim away. In that case both people lose. But at least try to ask and give another person the opportunity to express the slip so you can validate it and at least offer to make ammends.

Because of my personal experience of teaching different children, all their levels of "Yes buts" I have come to know that often there is a good part to focus on and build on. It is not always there in everyone, but often it is and you can get to the point where you will see it better in time.

All I know is that every single person is unique and will present a new challenge. And to be honest, in my years of training horses, I have found that the same is true with them as well. Every single horse has a hole, something is not perfect, something that requires the willingness to work around. And to combine what I have learned by dealing with both horses and people, the feeling of safety within the relationship is paramont. You cannot just jump on any horse and go and expect a satisfying relationship, you cannot do that with people either.

I know I have talked about horses a lot, but to be honest they have proven to be so theraputic in so many ways to humans.

Open Eyes

I know that while I want quick results I also know that a mental healing process cannot be rushed, but i just wish I could speed it along is all is Eyes, its causing me so many problems, messing up much in my life and i just want to get on wiht living, my life bhas changed so much in the last 8 years its unblieveable, there are days where i just dont recognise who I am anymore. I think your teacher analogy is perfect and very true, but sometimes i still crave normality, even tho i know Ill never really be normal.

Yeah Ive never really had problems meeting people, but people who understand me that is different I have come across very few in my time, those peopel that dont run screaming when i talk about who I am or the things ive done, those people are rare. Ive never really had big problems letting go but seems like this time I cant but i know I have to. Like moonbeam said about reaching out its her that reaches for me, but then she pulls away again because of the past, I took her reaching out as that leap of faith but before i could show her how different things could be she has gone again. I have blamed myself a lot about thing s in the past but as ive said im starting to see that not all the problems lay at my feet, I ahve very strong need to protect im not really sure why but I have to fight that too sometimes as it can be smothering. I know Im not exactly normal and some peopel would say thats an understatment, but I just want to get better.

Just remember no one is normal. Everyone has to learn throughout life. At least your getting guidance, give it time. Try not to bring up your past wrongs when you meet someone. Try to let that go. If you have decided to change than don't bring your past to new relationships, don't expect someone to make up for your past, no one can do that, not even you. You have to start new and work on changing today and tomarrow one day at a time.

If you keep telling women about your bad boy days it is like you are warning her your a bad person instead of working on making changes. You have to think about what you present to others, are you looking for a mother to tell you she is going to make it all better, poor little boy? You wont really like that, because that is where you will put yourself in the relationship, the poor little bad boy, fix me, I cant fix myself. Give that a lot of thought Richardrahl, most women don't want to be a mother figure and have to put up with a child that has tantroms, you have to be a man now. You have to walk away from the Peter Pan little boy that you have been. And you are not alone in that, most men have to face that eventually, otherwise they end up alone and are scratching their heads.

When my husband was your age he was still very much a Peter Pan. It was really hard on me, most women opt out of that. It took a long time for him to grow up and to be honest I have morned for that man that I thought I got married to and I NEVER deserved to suffer what I had to go through. I really loved him and he really messed that up. I lived for many years not feeling safe, not a nice feeling, very damaging in fact, and big part of what I am fighting now.
Now, I have tried to forgive but I cannot help the damage it has done to me, I have realized that it just doesn't go away. Oh, how I wish it would. And I do love my husband but I really wish all those years of trauma never existed.

So grow up first, it will make so much difference, so much less to regret and you CAN do it.

Open Eyes

I understand what you mean Eyes, but how can I expect a potential partner to undertand the nature of my issues or where they come from if i dont talk about them or explain my past? I shouldnt have secrets from my partner right?

All im looking for is someone who understands me, someone who can see past the mask and treat me with some love and respect, instead of using me as an emotional punching bag because of their own problems and insecuirities.

I know that this time the issue isnt completly because of me but because of the past issues, and speculation. It just makes me sad to see that even those who know me, those that know me better than anyone still cant see how different I am. On one side they praise the change but on the other dont really believe im changing.

I woke up today and I just feel like running away, going somewhere where nobody knows me, where I just start all over again as nobody, a faceless, nameless person with a clean slate, But i know that would achieve nothing, I know I have to face those problems and deal with the things that make me uncomfortable.

I know I am changing everyday and for the better, I just want to be accpeted, to be undertsood, to be a part of something special.

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love your quote.