[seeker1950]

I called sister last night, and told her I was hurt by her presenting the unwrapped mashed boxes to me in front of everyone, and saying, "Here's your present from last year." Her response to me, on the phone, was "this is SO wrong."
Even though I was truly hurt, and had not slept for two nights, I also feel I was wrong to tell her my feelings. I also realize these feelings of fault on my part...stem from an upbringing in which I was never allowed to express disagreement, anger or hurt. Sister and I were always shamed for disagreeing, fighting (she often beat me up!), and made to hug and make up no matter how much I felt violated. And in my parents' eyes, it was
always MY fault, me, being two years older, but weaker physically than my sister.
I realize too that this phone confrontation I did last night may create a permanent rift with my sister and her family. I even thought today of trying to call her and apologize for revealing my feelings.
A stronger person would probably have just dismissed this Christmas fiasco and gone on with her life.

[gimmeice]

((((((( Seeker ))))))))

I think it was very strong of you to be able to share your feelings with your sister, that takes a lot of bravery. Her response to your feelings was wrong. I hope things work out for you and your sister.

Just ignoring your feelings would not have solved anything, feelings have a way of coming back up to the surface.

[seeker1950]

Originally Posted by gimmeice

((((((( Seeker ))))))))

I think it was very strong of you to be able to share your feelings with your sister, that takes a lot of bravery. Her response to your feelings was wrong. I hope things work out for you and your sister.

Just ignoring your feelings would not have solved anything, feelings have a way of coming back up to the surface.

Thank you, dear Gimmeice. Actually, my "inner voice" was whispering to me to not even go to sister's for Christmas Eve. Her invitation to me was last minute, and kind of backhanded, like..."we have so and so here, and we're going to this church event later, but if you want to come," etc.

My confronting sister was not so much "strong" as just plain hurt and exasperated.

[lynn P.]

((seeker1950)) - let me understand this correctly. You told her your feelings and she said:

"this is SO wrong."

Is she saying you're wrong for your feelings? After your other thread, I was thinking of your situation several times and I still think it was very inconsiderate, even rude to do this. Did they give you a gift for this year? A good joke is where everyone is laughing and no one is hurt.

I don't think you should call and apologize for what you said or the fact you were hurt. Like you said, you're reverting back to how your parents insisted you patch things up. I have mixed feelings about the holidays - I find them way too much pressure and way too much phoniness. I don't like the feeling of forced smiles among tense family members.

I don't think this has to cause a permanent rift unless she's stubborn. You should be able to say how you feel and the other one can respond. Is she the type to hold a grudge and cut you off next year? Would it bother you if she did? All I can say is, I would have spoke up right when she said that, so you're a better person than me. I also think you're right in calling her to explain. If someone makes a spectacle they should know how you feel.

[unaluna]

Well, at least now she is not going to be surprised when next Xmas she just gets a postcard that says Aloha from Hawaii. She's not going to be able to say, "Why didn't you say something back THENNNNNN??? I don't even REMEMBERRRRRR!!! Why are you making such a big DEEEEEALLLL???!!!" (Gee my brother whines like a girl!) I say we start planning the "PC cruise from hell" now!

[Open Eyes]

LOL hankster!!

[seeker1950]

Originally Posted by lynn P.

((seeker1950)) - let me understand this correctly. You told her your feelings and she said: Is she saying you're wrong for your feelings? After your other thread, I was thinking of your situation several times and I still think it was very inconsiderate, even rude to do this. Did they give you a gift for this year? A good joke is where everyone is laughing and no one is hurt.

I don't think you should call and apologize for what you said or the fact you were hurt. Like you said, you're reverting back to how your parents insisted you patch things up. I have mixed feelings about the holidays - I find them way too much pressure and way too much phoniness. I don't like the feeling of forced smiles among tense family members.

I don't think this has to cause a permanent rift unless she's stubborn. You should be able to say how you feel and the other one can respond. Is she the type to hold a grudge and cut you off next year? Would it bother you if she did? All I can say is, I would have spoke up right when she said that, so you're a better person than me. I also think you're right in calling her to explain. If someone makes a spectacle they should know how you feel.

Ah, dear LynnP! My sis is pretty set in her ways, and sometimes I think she's brainwashed by the mega-church she attends. Her whole family is deeply immersed in their religion, and I'm pretty certain she sees no fault in what she did (also consistent in how we were raised as children). On the other hand, surveying the event and all her acquaintances, there is NO ONE else to whom she would have done such a thing, but me.

One tool I refer to is to reverse the situation, and ask myself is there any circumstance in which I would have done what sister did, and, of course, the answer is NO.
Thank you, Lynn P.
Patty

[seeker1950]

Originally Posted by hankster

Well, at least now she is not going to be surprised when next Xmas she just gets a postcard that says Aloha from Hawaii. She's not going to be able to say, "Why didn't you say something back THENNNNNN??? I don't even REMEMBERRRRRR!!! Why are you making such a big DEEEEEALLLL???!!!" (Gee my brother whines like a girl!) I say we start planning the "PC cruise from hell" now!

Hankster, LOL! PC cruise "from Hell" sounds like a lot of fun, and wonderful, in fact!
Thank you,
patty

[Open Eyes]

(((((Seeker1950)))))

Unfortunately, neither you or your sister have ever truely learned how to communicate and resolve with each other. It is very hard to teach old dogs new tricks, it is not impossible but both you and your sister need to have a therapist to help you overcome this. Sorry to say, it can only take place if there is a real desire by both of you to overcome the way your parents interrupted healthy communication to take place.

I can relate to the struggle as I too have a sister and her communication means, talk to me in a condescending manor and talk over me and god forbid I disagree with her know it all ways. So I truely sympathize with your struggle.

(((((Hugs))))))
Open Eyes

[lynn P.]

I forgot to mention - thank you Patty for the compliment you gave me on your other thread. I feel you're exactly right when you said this:

One tool I refer to is to reverse the situation, and ask myself is there any circumstance in which I would have done what sister did, and, of course, the answer is NO.

You're right this wouldn't be appropriate to do to anyone else. As I said before, she should have delivered those gifts last year. I also know that 'last minute feeling' you get, when you're invited when everyone else knew way before you. It's sad that most people treat their friends and acquaintances better than family. Sometimes I wish we could just blurt out whatever we felt like saying without worrying about consequences.

[seeker1950]

Originally Posted by Open Eyes

(((((Seeker1950)))))

Unfortunately, neither you or your sister have ever truely learned how to communicate and resolve with each other. It is very hard to teach old dogs new tricks, it is not impossible but both you and your sister need to have a therapist to help you overcome this. Sorry to say, it can only take place if there is a real desire by both of you to overcome the way your parents interrupted healthy communication to take place.

I can relate to the struggle as I too have a sister and her communication means, talk to me in a condescending manor and talk over me and god forbid I disagree with her know it all ways. So I truely sympathize with your struggle.

(((((Hugs))))))
Open Eyes

Thanks for your insights, and feedback, Open Eyes. Sister would never see the need for help from a therapist!...unless it was in her church...which seems rather cult-like to me....So there is the dichotomy.
I realized a while back that much of both my sister's and my own involvement with religion was a means to achieve approval from our distant father, whose only approval and encouragement to us came when we joined the church. I'm not dissing the church here, just saying I've come to realize that our absent and distant, non-affectionate father only gave approval to us re/our commitment to the church. And, yes, this is a whole other can of worms than the recent Christmas debacle which prompted my initial post.

[sandworm]

Hello Seeker1950, your
first post sounds a little "borderline personality' where you
are sharing your 'truth' and then being told that sharing your
truth and desire to not feel so minimalized, then you agree with
the treatment from said person of insensitivity, that you were
in the wrong to be even 'communicating.'

your right move is to choose the best company for you and
forget the obligations of 'genetics' like family.

SW

[lido78]

This sounds pretty familiar to me as I've had some communication issues with my sister. When I try to be direct with her about issues, she always seems to get annoyed or even angry, and the insinuation is that I'm weak or too sensitive in bringing it up. However, rather than apologize for my latest misstep in communication, I basically gave her a taste of her own medicine. This means that I was polite but somewhat aloof, I did not call her unless it was to return a call and, even then, I responded via e-mail rather than more directly communicate via telephone. I continued this way for three months until Thanksgiving, at which point I called her to personally to wish her a Happy Thanksgiving. Even though the conversation went well and no issues have come up since then, I've stuck to my approach and communicated with her according to her rules...although not ideal, it keeps us in friendly contact and me from sticking my neck out far enough for her to chop it off. We will never be super close (and nothing in the handbook says that we should be close just because we're related) but we are at least cordial. After years of fighting and stress, this is good enough for me. My warmer, closer relationships are found with different people. She is who she is and there ain't nothing that's gonna change it, at least not by my actions.

[seeker1950]

Originally Posted by lynn P.

I forgot to mention - thank you Patty for the compliment you gave me on your other thread. I feel you're exactly right when you said this:

You're right this wouldn't be appropriate to do to anyone else. As I said before, she should have delivered those gifts last year. I also know that 'last minute feeling' you get, when you're invited when everyone else knew way before you. It's sad that most people treat their friends and acquaintances better than family. Sometimes I wish we could just blurt out whatever we felt like saying without worrying about consequences.

Thanks again, Lynn P. I'm thinking I must find other meaningful sources of involvment. Christmas is a hard time for me, and perhaps an organization of service at this time of year, or just plain moving to another location!?

[Open Eyes]

((((((Seeker))))))

I don't think your sister is paying attention in Church. Most faiths work on love and communication, understanding, and respect for others. It sounds to me that it is more of a political agenda to her.

However, there is one other possibility. You could join her church and visit with the Minister and discuss your issues with your sister, see what he says. Usually there are family counceling services in these churches. You don't have to let your sister know anything ahead of time. You could talk to the Minister/pastor whatever and see what he/she says. I did get some help from a minister once and though he didn't have all my answers for me, he was very helpful.

Open Eyes

[sandworm]

Originally Posted by Open Eyes

((((((Seeker))))))

I don't think your sister is paying attention in Church. Most faiths work on love and communication, understanding, and respect for others. It sounds to me that it is more of a political agenda to her.

However, there is one other possibility. You could join her church and visit with the Minister and discuss your issues with your sister, see what he says. Usually there are family counceling services in these churches. You don't have to let your sister know anything ahead of time. You could talk to the Minister/pastor whatever and see what he/she says. I did get some help from a minister once and though he didn't have all my answers for me, he was very helpful.

Open Eyes

wow, that is so awesome.

[Trippin2.0]

I'm glad you stood up for yourself. No. I'm PROUD of you my older sister has belittled and insulted me my whole life. I've come to realize it's not a reflection on me, but her own victim complex/jealousy can of worms. This being said... She insulted me during Christmas lunch and had a good ole laugh at my expense, so I insulted her RIGHT back. I don't care if she's 12yrs older than me! Btw, she told our family and friends that she was the genetic masterpiece that I was moulded from,but I didn't come out quite right (She has straight hair and huge boobs, I'm flat chested after breastfeeding with curly hair) oh, and I can't be sure, but I think she was referring to my BP as well. Anywaaay I retorted with "nope, you've got it all wrong, you were the rough draft, and I'm the new improved model, Francoise2.0" not very nice of me, but I did what I had to, to put her on her place. Ophelia REFUSES to be anybody's doormat or punching bag. I'm really glad you confronted her, it couldn't have been easy #hugs.you.tightly.and.pats.you.on.the.back#

[seeker1950]

Wow!, I thank you all for your feedback. I mean, it has really helped me to get some sleep...seriously. Several days now past the incident, I don't feel total self-recrimination (like I did initially) for calling my sister and revealing my feelings of hurt. I'm pretty sure, though, that she feels I'm in the wrong. I do feel bad that I was angry and hurt when I called her, rather than speaking objectively and without emotion, but "it is what it is" now, and no going back.
A bit off-topic, my mother was truly "obsessed" with what others thought of her, and always displayed a high degree of shame about revealing any flaw. Seriously, I often got beaten severely for the slightest infraction of "what will the neighbors think" even up into my college years when I vistited home. So, that, along with the conditioning to compromise my feelings from early childhood onward regarding any injustice, makes it hard, even to this day, to feel justified in expressing any feelings of hurt.

I sound like a basket case here, don't I! But I've created a meaningful life, raised a daughter, and have a good job, as well as being a practicing artist. The mistake I've made is to isolate myself too much, being too alone, and expecting fulfillment from the infrequent contacts with "family."
The holidays are difficult. In the future, I hope to find other outlets for this.
Thanks to you all! PC really means a lot to me!
Patty

[sandworm]

JUST^ remember Seeker, the old saying goes it takes two to 'tango'.

It really doesn't, it just takes one unreasonable person to create an intolerable war.
This has been the Lesson I am born to learn this go around on the Cosmic wheel.

Hugs to you seeker.

"S"

[seeker1950]

Thank you,
Sandworm!
Patty

[Open Eyes]

(((((Seeker))))

At least your recognizing that some of the issues you struggle with are a result of what you learned while growing up. I think the first part of taking steps to improve our lives is to understand that some of our issues are not our fault, we just were imprinted with some negetive conditioning.

For so many years, often even now, there was a certain concern or demand to present a certain pubic image. It is not unusual for many (especially in my age group, 50's and those that are older even) for that concern about what the neighbors see and think. There is a certain knowledge about presenting the correct public display, but the knowledge about what SHOULD take place inside the home in family was not really taught, or known. The sentiment of children should be seen and not heard resonated for many generations. It really was not recognized how much children really absorb and it is not unusual for many to grow up with too much concern about the opinions of others, rather than finding their own identity and personal talents etc.
without being self conscious.

No, your not a basket case, you have a genuine concern, a concern shared by many.
The important thing to know is that you have had the courage to ask and your willing to learn beyond the constrictions of childhood experiences.

((((Hugs))))
Open Eyes

[seeker1950]

Originally Posted by Open Eyes

(((((Seeker))))

At least your recognizing that some of the issues you struggle with are a result of what you learned while growing up. I think the first part of taking steps to improve our lives is to understand that some of our issues are not our fault, we just were imprinted with some negetive conditioning.

For so many years, often even now, there was a certain concern or demand to present a certain pubic image. It is not unusual for many (especially in my age group, 50's and those that are older even) for that concern about what the neighbors see and think. There is a certain knowledge about presenting the correct public display, but the knowledge about what SHOULD take place inside the home in family was not really taught, or known. The sentiment of children should be seen and not heard resonated for many generations. It really was not recognized how much children really absorb and it is not unusual for many to grow up with too much concern about the opinions of others, rather than finding their own identity and personal talents etc.
without being self conscious.

No, your not a basket case, you have a genuine concern, a concern shared by many.
The important thing to know is that you have had the courage to ask and your willing to learn beyond the constrictions of childhood experiences.

((((Hugs))))
Open Eyes

Thank you Open Eyes, for your thoughtful observations. I really mean that!. I'm going to post some final thoughts about this predicament w/sister.

Patty

[seeker1950]

Not to beat a dead horse here, I must post this: So, I fear I've created a permanent rift with my sister. That's all. The alternative was to not share with her my hurt, and to accept sub-par treatment, but perhaps I should have dismissed it, accepted it, and just moved on stoically.
I do thank you all for your feedback!
Patty

[notz]

A bit off-topic, my mother was truly "obsessed" with what others thought of her, and always displayed a high degree of shame about revealing any flaw. Seriously, I often got beaten severely for the slightest infraction of "what will the neighbors think" even up into my college years when I vistited home. So, that, along with the conditioning to compromise my feelings from early childhood onward regarding any injustice, makes it hard, even to this day, to feel justified in expressing any feelings of hurt.

Seeker, I could be your sister...not that sister, but a "sister" non the less!

Your insight is keen. What a strong woman you are.

[seeker1950]

Originally Posted by notz

Patty, I could be your sister...not that sister, but a "sister" non the less!

Your insight is keen. What a strong woman you are.

Thank you, Notz! You are long here on PC, as am I, and you ARE a sister in that respect. I've found the best friends here.
Patty