Doubting myself

This is going to be a long post, so I apologize in advance.

My husband and I got together when we were both 19 and in college. When we got together, I was in a really bad place. I was going through an episode of depression, was drinking heavily and sleeping around. On top of that, I was being stalked by an ex. I was treating everyone around me horribly, and I was treating myself horribly too. I felt awful about my behavior all the time, but felt like I couldn't control it. At the time, J was very supportive of me, being my friend, telling me I didn't need to be doing this to myself. Eventually, I did stop and we started dating. We got married the following year.

The first few years of our marriage were ok, but not perfect. My self-esteem was still very low and I was very insecure. I always felt he would eventually find someone better and leave me. I know this was difficult for him to deal with, and feel very badly about this. I also had incredible guilt and shame about my previous behavior. He was not perfect either. He would walk off jobs, saying they weren't "treating him fairly" and often would wait to look for another job for a few months. Even when he was unemployed, I would still be expected to do a lot of the housework, especially the chores that needed to be done daily, like cooking.

We had our first child after 6 years of marriage. Shortly after she was born, I realized that I had been suffering from depression for years. Up until this point, I thought I was just a horrible b****. I never realized I didn't HAVE to feel this way. Went to the doc and she prescribed Paxil. After a few weeks, I felt like a new person. Approached J and told him that I realized my behavior had affected our marriage and wanted to go to a marriage counselor to work through these things with him. The response I got was that it was my problem, not his, and he wasn't going to a counselor.

After our second child was born, things really began to change. At first, J seemed sad and upset. He told me he wasn't sure if he could deal with the things I had done in the past (drinking and sleeping around).
At this point in time, he decided he wanted to transfer at his job to a location closer to where we grew up. He said he wanted to be closer to our parents b/c they were getting older. I wasn't thrilled with the idea, but agreed to move. While preparing to move, I found out I was pregnant again.

Once we moved, things REALLY changed. J became angrier about my past. I got called "stupid worthless wh***" pretty much daily. He would call me from work countless times during the day to check up on me. There were a couple instances of physical abuse. He told me he admitted the abuse to one of his female coworkers, and she couldn't believe it, b/c he was "such a nice guy". One day after our son was born, he called to tell me he wanted me to have a paternity test done on the kids. I said fine, because I knew what the results would be. Well , this wasn't the "right" answer. Actually, my responses were NEVER right to anything he said. I didn't have a "job" at this point, so all the childcare/housework/shopping fell to me, since he was working. After taking care of a newborn, a 14 month old, and a 2 1/2 yr old all day, I was exhausted. We were seeing a counselor at one point in this, and I remember the counselor telling me that J had said that he felt like I never had time for HIM. Throughout all this, I was still expected to have sex whenever HE wanted it. Didn't matter if I was exhausted, hurt from his yelling, whatever. Anyways, we eventually got divorced, because HE decided he wanted one. (When he had found out months before that I went to a lawyer to seek counsel on a divorce, he exploded, so I dropped it at that time.)

After the divorce he moved in with his parents. He expected me to move into my parents' house, which was just a couple miles away. I did not. I moved back to the city we previously lived in, 2 1/2 hours away. I guess this pissed him off. At first, I still got harassing phone calls from him, even when I was at work. He would throw a guilt trip on me, saying I had upset him, so he wasn't going to take the kids on his weekend. I began working with a counselor. After a while, J stopped the anger and began to be "nice", sending me gifts, telling me how he wanted to work on things, blah, blah, blah. I was getting to the point that I wanted him out of my life. I wanted to move on.

Then something happened that would change my family's life. My daughter had her first seizure 6 months after we divorced. She was in and out of the hospital constantly. They couldn’t get her seizures under control. This seemed to change J. He said he blamed himself, saying he felt like if he hadn't become an ahole, she wouldn't have gotten sick. J still wanted to work on things and get back together. I was torn. I finally decided to get back together with him, mainly because I felt that our kids needed the support of both parents, especially now that one was so sick. We moved back in together, and got remarried a little over a year after our divorce.

Things were ok for a couple of years. Then he met someone at work. He took her to lunch, bought her flowers, took her to a concert. I know there was physical contact, but J swore he never had sex with her, not that that mattered. He stated he wanted to separate, he was getting an apartment, and we could work on things. Again. This time I exploded. I told him that if he was moving out, we could just get a divorce. And things would be different than the last time. I would not be his "friend". I didn't care about his personal life, and mine was none of his business. The only thing I would talk to him about was the kids. After my explosion, he decided to stay and work on things.

Eventually, we bought a house and moved. Things seemed ok for several years. I had to get a job to help with the finances. The only thing I could get was a 3rd shift job so that someone was always available to watch my daughter. I was still expected to do all the things that I had done around the house when I wasn’t working. I was getting stressed out trying to keep up with the house, kids, and a job. I said something to J about how I felt. J became upset, and began yelling about my past again. The anger came back. No physical abuse this time, but a lot of emotional abuse.

Things seem to go in cycles with him. He’s angry, distant, and cold for a while, then he’s nice, attentive, wanting to do things with me. I never know what to expect. I do notice a lot of times that when he becomes distant and cold, he always seems to have a female friend that he is always texting, confiding in, etc. Haven’t seen any evidence that he is in a physical affair with them. But I know he is telling them how horribly I treat him. (I contacted one of his “friends” and talked to her. He was not happy) Looking back through the years, this seems to be a consistent tactic of his. When we first got together, I always heard about how horribly his parents treated him. Then it was work. And I guess now it’s me.

I have been preparing myself for leaving him. The main reason I went back to school and became an RN was so that I wouldn’t feel financially dependent on him anymore. I am trying to get my depression and anxiety under control so that I feel like I can make a good decision. But I also feel like he sometimes tries to sabotage me, making me feel guilty for my past, or making me feel guilty for our financial situation, or whatever else he can blame me for. I have not been perfect, far from it. But when an issue is brought to my attention, I do make an effort to change.

Looking back on the past 25 years, I am questioning a lot of things now. His apathy when I would be struggling with work or an issue with the kids, sex only when he wanted it, his attitude that I never worked as hard as he did because I didn’t bring home as much $ as he did, his attitude that I “owed” him because he “saved” me from my bad behavior. (I even got asked on a couple of occasions “Where would you be without me?”)

I know in my heart what I need to do, but the guilt and doubt continue to plague me. Am I wrong for feeling like I have been used and mistreated? Why am I always doubting myself?

Bringing up your past behavior is an abhorrent tactic. Yikes. I am glad you have been able to get your RN. It should serve you well and you should be able to separate from him. You owe him absolutely nothing and he owes you a paid cleaning service for the rest of your days.

Speaking from experience, this sounds like a textbook abusive relationship. You're harboring doubts because *he* planted them there. The most insidious aspect of any abusive relationship is the emotional manipulation: the push/pull dynamic, the apologetic guy-you-fell-in-love-with magically reappearing whenever he senses your growing determination to leave, the guilt trips, etc., etc. He knows you're much, much too good for him, and so he has to play his mind games and attempt to finagle his way into your heart.

I would advise you to seek support from a group for abused women and/or a therapist who specializes in treating abuse victims. You need to know you aren't alone, and you need a reliable source of validation that you're seeing things clearly and doing what's right for you (and your kids).

Best wishes, and please keep us updated. Oh, and I think Hamster is right on about the cleaning service! I wonder if you can get that included in the divorce settlement

What exactly did you do when you were young? Did you seduce underage boys? Did you cause acccidents with fatalities because of your drunk driving?

No, neither, hamster. I made some bad choices for myself. I treated myself and those around me like crap, including him. A bunch of us from school would often go out to the bars and drink. One time, J rode in my car to the bar. Well, I got drunk as usual and hooked up with someone. J had to find a ride home with someone else. That is one incident that gets thrown back at me. Another issue is that when he first said he wanted to date me, I didn't take him seriously. I had watched him want to date a lot of my friends. I thought at the time he was just going down the line, and I was next. So I told him if he wanted to date me, he had to dress nicer and stop smoking pot. I didn't think he would do these things, but he did. So that's another thing that get thrown at me- I made him change in order to be with me.
I do feel badly about my choices, but- I decided long ago that I could not change what I did, but I could change myself and my behavior. And I did. As soon as we got together, the sleeping around stopped. But then, his opinion of when we got together and my opinion aren't exactly the same. I know I was sending him mixed messages about the nature of our relationship for about a month before we got together. But in my mind, I was confused and mixed up about what I wanted. So my sleeping around continued until I finally told him, that yes, I wanted to be with him. So his interpretation is that I cheated on him. I can understand his feeling on that, given I was sending him mixed messages.
I get the feeling he thinks I should have fallen on the ground in gratitude when he showed up and stopped everything I was doing wrong as soon as he decided I should. I wish I could have stopped my behavior instantly, but I couldn't. I was too messed up.

I agree with H-B and Jitters. This seems like an abusive relationship and it would do you well to get out as soon as you are able. I know this is complicated by the kids, especially as one is so ill (I really hope the docs have figured out what's happening and she's on the mend).

Try taking a step back, looking at his behaviour over the past 25 years and thinking, do I really want another 25 years of this rubbish. You may have different opinions of when you got together but it we're talking a one month difference in 25 years! He needs to get over that. From what you say, you have been faithful to him in all that time (give or take a month). He is the one who has been unfaithful by texting/calling these 'work colleagues' and seeking comfort from their words rather than by talking to you about the issues. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt for the moment as to whether he's been physically unfaithful.

It looks like he doesn't see you as a partner in this relationship but as a nanny/maid. That's not a relationship and you can do better for yourself and for your kids.

I think you need to forgive yourself for your past. You were 19, had some personal issues. I think a lot of us out there can hold our hands up to making many mistakes at that age. But you grew up! You got help with medication, and you've done a lot for your family, and been a wonderful mum. Please, life is so hard, please forgive yourself for your past, even if your hubby seems to not. Throwing stuff back at you is really not a good way to have a relationship, and it smacks of immaturity on his behalf. You either love and forgive someone or you don't.

I agree with the others, that he's being abusive. Its always hard leaving someone when its like this, but that's what its like being in an abusive relationship. Seeds of doubt, eroding your confidence, making you feel like you need them, its all part of it.

I do hope you do whatever it is you need to do to make the next 25 years happy ones for you.

Hugs

Dear Doodlefrog,

To trace an old cliche, "Feelings are not right or wrong, they are just feelings," I will say it certainly sounds, by your account, that you have every reason to have the feelings that you do.

I certainly do not staunchly support that old phrase, for I do believe that, sometimes, even when we feel a certain way, it can be that we are misreading the situation, resulting in unnecessary angst and worry.

I honestly do not see this as the case in your status, and am glad for you, that you have come to Psych Central, for without a doubt, there are surely many here that can identify with your problem, and offer wise and caring advice.

I have never been in a position, exactly as you describe, so I do not feel qualified to personally offer advice, but I do want you to know that I care, and hope that you find, quickly, answers to your queries.

One thing that I can offer, is friendship, and to be a sounding board for which you can bounce your thoughts and emotions upon. Please feel free to visit my page anytime and ask for aid, if you find you are in need. I may not have the supplies necessary to help personally, but I am positive that I would be endowed with the knowledge as to where you could seek comfort and enlightenment.

Take care of yourself, Doodlefrog, and welcome to this place.

Sincerely,

-Fleeing Bellocq, Muse of the Mission District

his accusations are entirely ridiculous. You did not cheat on him because you did not commit to him yet - you were unsure of your plans vis-a-vis him. In a mere month you made up your mind! This is how it should be looked at. You were also open with him about your life, which was commendable and should have been appreciated.

To stop doubting yourself, you need to reframe your thought process.

I made some bad choices for myself --> engaged in harmless experimentation with sex and alcohol when young.

and so on and so forth

You are clearly one unappreciative *****. How dare you talk about your giving him unlimited instant access to sex as if it were a concession or an undeserved favor?! Tears of sincere gratitude and repentance should have filled your eyes each time he graced your dirty and despicable orifices with his divine penis, thus forgiving once again your horrible past of a fallen woman!

Again, how dare you talk about it in this fashion? A long line of women was waiting at his doorstep, each woman secretly hoping to be the chosen one, and he gave you and you alone the exclusive privilege to sweep and mop all the floors in his house, and not once, not twice, but for 25 years!

In hell, obviously. It is clear as day -- that is why he asked only a couple of times. It is a rhetorical question at this point.

You grossly underestimate the magnitude of his good deeds if you continue to think that just a little more gratitude on your part was all that was needed. Look, the activities of heavy drinking and sleeping around had been completely unheard of before you came along; you practically invented them, becoming the sole source of evil on this planet. Before you, all women filled their days with highly productive pursuits, studying textbooks, volunteering for worthy causes, running for office, and quietly knitting or crocheting at bedtime. Then you were born and the age of sin began. He did not just save you; he saved the humanity! You should have erected shrines bearing his name in each large metropolitan area in this country. Have you done that?

Amazing advice/words. It's such a trap... letting who you were as a kid, before you knew yourself or.. were committed or.. anything... control your life now.

He's a douche. Sorry but I got that same "I saved you" crap from my first ex-h. I didn't ask him to save me. I didn't need saving. I still have nightmares about him. Congrats on your RN.

Thanks everyone. And hamster, thanks for pointing out where I went wrong, lol. I never even thought of erecting shrines in his honor!

Right now I'm trying to figure out how to gather $ for a lawyer. Since he controls all the finances, I'm gonna have to be sneaky. I hate having to do that. Makes me feel guilty.....

It never ceases to amaze me how many people will accuse others of something that the accuser is guilty of doing. He cheats, and then accuses you of seeing other men or becomes extremely suspicious of your activities. Ugh.

I imagine that divorce lawyers have been through that already - the situations where one spouse controls all the finances. So they may have suggestions.

LovelaceF- yep, I have gotten told (after me being completely faithful for 20 yrs) he is "afraid" to take me anywhere because he thinks I will pick up some guy and abandon him. I have NEVER cheated on him during our marriage. I think it's just an excuse not to go certain places with me. The one time a couple yrs ago, we were both invited out to a bar by one of his female friends. I asked him early in the week if we were going. He said no, he didn't want to. Flash forward to the day of the invite, he announces to me he is going by himself. He admitted he didn't want me to go with him. He purposely waited until it was too late to get a caregiver for my daughter so that I would have to stay home. But, you know, he is NEVER wrong in what he does. I am just getting so angry thinking about all the crap I have put up with for too long.....

Keep us posted on how the divorce goes. When you see a lawyer, mention that one kid has seizures and thus requires special medical care and expenses. That may increase the child support amount. I am not sure about it, but you do need to raise the issue.

My daughter with special needs will be 18 this year, so she should be getting SSI and child support won't be an issue with her. I am a little worried about if he is going to try to get custody tho, just because he threw a fit when I wanted to talk to the lawyer he chose to contact about guardianship. I don't know how he thinks he will get custody when I have been the one taking care of all her issues for years, but I just have this weird feeling about it.
I actually have thought about telling him I will forego any child support if he will just let me have the house. And I only want it b/c it will provide some stability for my kids. If it wasn't for them, I would gladly walk away from it. He will be inheriting his mommy's house anyways, so it's not like he has no where to go.