I'm not one that opens up much..... hope you all don't mind this ramble.

I'm feeling so torn ....... don't have a close relationship with my mother--- as she was my main abuser when I was a child.

Our relationship has been 95% me being the one she leans on and 5%-- I can count on her support..... which I quit looking for 10 years ago.

Anyway, I'm torn in that...... she shoplifts and I don't know what to do-- if anything-- about it. She's only done it once when I was with her-- as I haven't shopped with her for many years-- I've tried to distance myself from her to help in my healing. (though I know she does steal on occasion when she's by herself)

..... there is something in me that won't let this go..... maybe I'm still being the mother figure and feel I need to protect and guide her.... I've protected and gave her guidance since I was 13 years old...after my dad's first severe heart attack.

I'm so fearful that I'll feel guilty if she gets caught shoplifting-- as I've done nothing to help her to stop. How will I be able to live with myself knowing that she could be sitting in jail?? She occasionally gives me things that I KNOW she has stolen.... just two weeks ago she gave me a nightgown that she said she didn't like how it looked after all--- but it would never have fit her as she is quite a bit bigger than me-- and it's snug on me. I reluctantly accept the items because... I think she'll be upset if I don't..... but that makes me feel guilty as I know receiving stolen goods is wrong.

I'm so frustrated and confused. I know it's wrong to shoplift yet, my mom is not the kind you can confront and have a civil conservation with--- it will all be turned some how to be MY fault....... that's how it always goes with her. I'm the female black sheep of the family as it is(I have a brother that is the male black sheep-- he's an alcoholic).... if I say something to her, that could make things so much worse for me in the family. Some of my siblings don't believe she does this-- two of us have seen her and know she does it-- but the other one that has seen her doesn't want to deal with it--(the other sibling that saw her is the "golden daughter")--and lives nearly 500 miles away anyway)

Would it be cold for a daughter to do nothing and let the chips fall where they may-- by not warning her that it's wrong and someday she'll be caught??? Haven't I done enough and been there enough for her?

Just thought maybe someone looking from the outside could see this picture more clearly than me trying to see it through fogged-up relation-glasses. (BTW-- my mom is elderly now-- in her 70's) Every therapist I've seen has guessed that she may have some Borderline Personality Disorder traits-- but haven't been able to confirm since she won't EVER see a therapist.

mandyfins

I'm so sorry.

I'm not good at support when it comes to mother issues but I wanted you to know that compulsive shoplifting is an addiction.

I'm so fearful that I'll feel guilty if she gets caught shoplifting-- as I've done nothing to help her to stop.

Would you confront her if it was alcohol?

And if so, how? Would she be open to your help?

This is the same issue.

The simplistic notion that shoplifting and stealing are merely legal or moral issues is wrong. There appears to be more dishonesty than ever these days; yet, tougher laws, more sophisticated security systems, and endless moralism haven't reduced these offenses. In fact, they're on the rise. Stealing, particularly shoplifting, can and often does become addictive.

Read more here.

[bebop]

Mandy oh gosh hon I don't know what to say. My mom was my abuser as well and I for one kept going back for more. Meaning I couldn't just walk away from the relationship. That to me is against the rules of honor thy father and mother.
As far as her stealing honey I am sure she knows it is wrong. I would let the chips fall where they may on this. You can not control what she does but I would not accept anymore of the "gifts" from her. Unless of course she provides a receipt letting you know she really bought the item. Yes is she gets caught she is going to jail, but if you get caught with items she took then you go to jail. (((hugs)))

Thank you Tunia for your supportive words, and -- Oh my gosh--- why didn't I think about that--- it possibly being an addiction!??!!

Thank you-- and thanks for that link--- I'm going to do some more research on this subject.

I truly understand about it being hard -- concerning "mother issues"--- and the very idea that you still posted to me means so very much--- thank you again.

mandy

Bebop,

Thanks for your reply. And yes, it is so very hard to just walk away from the relationship..... sorry you can relate to that too.

I'd like to think my mom knows what she's doing is wrong.... but she has told me that the store won't miss it and they kind of owe it to her anyway after all she has purchased from them. My mom has always been the type that she'll do something for you if you do something for her... even as a mother-- her "love"-- if one would call it that, was always conditional.

"Letting the chips fall where they may" is probably the best thing.... though it is hard to just let it go as the "responsibility chain" tightens around my neck!

Thanks for your insight and support.

mandy

[LMo]

Oh no Mandyfins... first of all, I'd like to say that I think you're brave for opening up here. You've helped me and many others so many times yet this is the first time that I've ever seen you talk about yourself. Thank you for trusting us with this part of your story.

About your mother, well, I agree with Petunia that she probably is addicted to it in a disorder sense. I'm sure you've already read this but just in case.

On one hand, I want to say that it would be best if you did an intervention.

On the other hand, she's both elderly and someone who you have had bad experiences with, so there is a part of me that wants to protect YOU and keep a distance from her.

I don't know what the right thing to do is. Please just know that you have my support no matter what

[wi_fighter]

((((((((((((((Mandy))))))))))))

((((((((((((Mandy))))))))))))

I just don't have any words to say but I hear you!

I do struggle with an inner part that tells me that it doesn't matter what's going on with me-- that I shouldn't take up such nice people's time and attention. And as I've heard all my growing up years--"Deal with it". ---- I'm trying to ignore all that!

It is interesting about this problem possibly being an addiction.... and thanks also for the link-- I hadn't read that one yet.

Yea, if we had a good relationship I could see considering an intervention..... but......knowing how things are between us..... I don't see an intervention happening.

I've been thinking with the help of these posts and some very kind PM's that it would be best if I just let things happen--- I think that might be the road with less anguish and stress.
I can't be HER mother forever-- in fact I'm tired of it--- I have my own children to mother.

I'm trying little by little to distance myself and have decided to take another step in the distance-- *gulp*-- here goes!-- this is so scary!!! Guess-- giving up on the dream of having a "real" mother-- something that I've ached for, imagined and thought I could have........ letting that go........ it hurts....... I see now that I have to do this in order for me to get out of this circle I go round and round in......

Odd how it feels I'm stepping from the fog--- into the darkness--- if it's like this for others, no wonder some would rather put up with things than take that step

Thanks LMo, your support means a lot to me.

mandy

Thanks for the hugs wi fighter.

And thank you too Time0 for the hugs.

mandy

[wi_fighter]

Mandy, your line about stepping out of the fog into the darkness, reminds me of something that happened to me on Wednesday. Sometimes we "see" better in the dark than we do in partial light.

I came home to find myself locked out of the house because I gave my daughter my key and forgot to put it back on the key ring when she gave it back. I walked around the house trying to find a window that was partially opened that I could maybe squeeze through. I was hoping I could just cut out a screen instead of breaking glass. That would have been the easy thing, right? No such luck. We'd had a wind and rain storm the night before and I'd shut the windows too much to do that.

I finally decided busting a window was the only option, and the last thing I wanted to have to do because then I'd have a mess to clean up. Which window to break? Not the big ones with double panes. Not the single panes in the living room, someone could walk into the unlocked front porch and climb right over the window sill. Couldn't get up onto the roof to get into my son's window that could have just the screen cut out. I decided on one of the basement windows. They're single pane and small, and there's a ledge that runs around the entire basement that I could crawl onto and then lower myself the 4 feet or so to the floor.

I went out to the garage and got a blanket and a metal weed popper. I laid the blanket out to catch the glass and smashed the garden tool through the glass. My stepdad had put a thick slab of pink foam insulation into the window this past fall to keep some of the heat in. It kept the glass from flying everywhere. It was so dark, I had to do everything by feel. The street light wasn't in a position to give me enough light. I had to pull the glass shards out of the edges of the frame, pick some up off the grass so I wouldn't get cut when I started crawling through, had to pick the glass up that went inside the basement. I was pretty sure I got it all.

There's a heating duct that runs right over the ledge so there isn't a lot of clearance to maneuver. I squeezed through the window, under the duct, and got to the floor. Then I had to walk across a pitch black basement to find the light switch. When I finally made it, I found that there was still glass inside the window, there were some strips of wood molding that had some small nails sticking out of them on the ledge, there was a small step stool on the floor, the recessed floor drain, and a bunch of laundry baskets.

I SHOULD have cut myself, got impaled with a nail, twisted my ankle from landing on the step stool and having it tip over, stepped in the floor drain and fallen forward, and tripped over baskets.

I didn't do any of that. I had faith that even in the darkness, I could find the right path and not get hurt.

Just a story I had to share.

Oh that's a great story-- sorry you had to break a window though.

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
I had faith that even in the darkness, I could find the right path and not get hurt.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

That is a good quote. It was amazing that you did just that-- you found the way and didn't get hurt.

Maybe I can do that too-- or.... at least with a minimal amount of pain. I've heard that when one sense is impaired others may take over and become heightened--- hope something gets stronger in me to help get through the kind of darkness I feel I'm entering.

thanks for sharing..... it's much appreciated.

mandy

[hillbunnyb]

wi_fighter, very true. we never know what the impact of our actions will be. we only can recognize that or current rut sucks and we want out. why is letting go of crud so hard. ??

fog is familiar? blackness is unknown? What dows it take to prod us to make the leap of faith necessary to fly to a new, healthier perch? For me, being at my wits end, having tried everything I can think of and failed to "get through" to whomever, will eventually force me into the new tact: let go.

We can't change or fix anybody but ourselves. IMO it's time for you to take care of you. If she gets popped it will be her first "gotcha" right? I would imagine that at her age and with her actions being the result of a mental condition, the courts would be very unlikely to lock her up. (There are too many elderly incarcerated already, they cost money in health care.)

Take care. I'm sorry you weren't moothered by your mother. It's hard to find a path to fill that hole. I wish you courage and insight and a safe journey. You got yer work cut out for ya, but, you can do it!

hillbunnyb,

Thanks for your reply. You know... I think this is where I'm at... </font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
at my wits end, having tried everything I can think of and failed to "get through" to whomever, will eventually force me into the new tact: let go.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

I've tried so hard-- everything I could think..... I thought if I can't get my mom to love me then I can't expect anyone to --- but now I see I have to let the "mom" part go. It's not going to happen. And if she does get caught... I shouldn't feel guilty.... it's not my fault . (I think I need to hear that everyday for a long time!! )

I agree, "we can't change or fix anybody but ourselves". And yes, that "fog" is familar no matter how upsetting it is-- it's something I KNOW and can depend on (can you imagine-- depending on being hurt? that seems odd now that I think about it-- what's that saying "bad attention is better than no attention"-- or something like that)--and yes, the "blackness" is unknown and the unknown can be so frightening.

Thanks for your supportive words-- I appreciate it very much.

mandy

[bebop]

mandy these words sounded so familiar with my thinking when my mom was still alive.

Guess-- giving up on the dream of having a "real" mother-- something that I've ached for, imagined and thought I could have........ letting that go........ it hurts....... I see now that I have to do this in order for me to get out of this circle I go round and round in......

Odd how it feels I'm stepping from the fog--- into the darkness--- if it's like this for others, no wonder some would rather put up with things than take that step

I never could "let go".
My mom didn't steal but she withheld her love for me. I too did everything I could possibly do to "make" her love me. It never happened. She was a very mean selfish woman to me anyway. If I didn't do exactly what she wanted me to or expected me to do then she blew up and got mad at me. A week before she died I watched her call my cousins to her bedside to tell them how much she loved them and would miss them. I thought finally my time is coming. It didn't. She died a week later without telling me she loved me, she only told me if I was going to cry to leave. I was at her side when she took her last breath. I loved her still but I could not change her. You have to take care of you first and your children. Always do what is best for you and them. You are never alone in this hon..I am right here with you!

Bebop--

I can feel that pain when you said your mom talked to your cousins and never did to you. Not to get on a mom bashing session...... but mine does that very thing. She's like that with other non-related females around my age--- she's even told me how she wishes so and so was HER daughter.

It hurts so much-- I'm sorry your mom wouldn't/couldn't see the love for you. I'm so so sorry Bebop my heart aches for you. It's hard to understand why a parent acts the way they do towards some, yet different with others.....

Thanks for saying you're here..... that means a lot.

mandy

[bebop]

mandy as I see it we are twins lol...we could be sisters...at least good friends that have our mothers in common. I hate you are going thru some of the same stuff. yes it hurts deeply. mostly I try not to "go there" . I am a long way from being over it I guess but most of the time I am able to just think that she is the one that lost out. I have no guilt though and for that I am greatful.

Yea, we sure have some parallel parts, don't we-- "sis-B"!!

I can see how "not going there" will be helpful in my future-- once I get past this realization that is.... It's kind of engulfed me at the moment.

Yes, I was thinking that very thing-- how your mom sure missed out... what a loss for her. And the fact that you don't have guilt speaks for how strong you are and how much healing you've done, that's awesome!!!

[bebop]

haha not sure how strong I am hon. been told that all my life. I now feel those threads weakening. That is scarey to me too!!

[jbug]

Wow Mandy I wish I knew what to say. Just wanted you to know that I'm thinking of you.

BTW if you want to share my mom you can....she's awesome.

Jbug

Thanks so much for your reply janniebug.

It's so sweet of you to offer to share your mom--- I'm really happy for you that she is awesome.

janniebug and janniebug's mom-----

mandy