[adam_k]

I was talking to my wife recently. Trying to be as open and honest as I can about me. We got on the subject of me wanting to be with someone else. My wife has been my only sexual partner and she has had a few before me. She said she was fine with having me have sex with someone else. At first I was surprised. She used to be the jealous type and now she would let me be with someone else.

At first I was shocked, but then I felt trusted that she would be ok that I could be with someone else. She did have a couple ground rules. No disease and the sex should be safe, which I would do both of those anyway.

For me the of being with someone else is exciting. To feel someone else and learn how to pleasure them. Sarah told me sex isn't really important to her. She said it is nice, and she enjoys it but she can live without it. For me I really enjoy sex. I feel almost euphoric afterwards. I like the feeling of being touched and desired.

Is it wrong to pursue this? I've never cheated on my wife and I don't consider it cheating if she permits me to have this. I feel wrong in a way. I wouldn't want her to be with another man (a women I would be fine with), why is it ok for me to be with someone? I'm confused, but excited.

[hamster-bamster]

You are expecting symmetry confusing symmetry with fairness. I have done it. It is very understandable, but it is flawed.

Look, you are ALREADY not symmetrical with respect to sex. For her: just nice. For you: hugely important.

Further, you are ALREADY not symmetrical with respect to sexual experience. For her: a few partners. For you: just one.

See how it is already not a level playing field and you should not strive to make it one.

If she is OK with it, you do not have to be OK with the reverse.

Many people prefer to be the only partner of the opposite sex but are OK with the bi spouse' having extra partners of the same sex. This is very understandable, because if you are a man, a woman is a creature who is so different from you that you do not feel competition. You would not feel "dis-preferred". You would feel that your wife is just meeting the needs of the other half of her orientation. It is very understandable. Your position is understandable, but so is hers.

Your ground rules seem axiomatic to me.

Cheating has to do with deceit so I do not see how you would apply this word in your situation. Just forget about it.

It may seem ok on the surface, but it rarely ends up ok. You guys have had a lot of troubles going on, and do you really want to add this into the mix too? If it were me, I'd try and sort things out at home first, and then decide what do to in the future. You may end up having feelings for another woman which will make things very confusing, and she may end up regretting what she said and it cause all sorts of negativity. I don't think its all that healthy personally speaking, and it could cause more problems that it appeared initially to solve.

[Big Mama]

Adam, I to have told my H this. He did not follow up on doing that. I told him sure have sex w/ someone else. As long as you loyalties lie w/ me I am fine w/ it. He has been with one person before me and I have been w/ 2 before him. I just am not that interested in sex. It is something that guys obviously need.

But having said that and knowing why I said it and thinking back on the ways your wife and I sound similar. I think of me as not being attractive (not to say your wife is not, but I am a bigger girl) who wants to be doomed to sex w/ a big girl for the rest of there life, I want to keep my H and don't want him to stray, so if I give him permission then he want be straying. I told him he could. When I told my H that he could have sex w/ other women, deep down inside I was not happy w/ our relationship at the time. That was mostly away to make him leave me alone. Sex if of zero importance to me. It used to be of minimal importance, but w/ the current issues plus the meds it is of zero importance. She may know just like I did that men have a higher drive then us ladies. In order to keep you she may be willing to share you. But that is not realistic in my own opinion. It would tell her so much more about you, and how much you value your relationship w/ her if you didn't find someone else to have sex w/. In hindsight I am glad my H didn't have sex w/ someone else and w/ me also. I think looking back it would have hurt me, and I would have felt defenseless to change it because I said he could.

That is a jeasture really not a reality. It says she loves you enough to care about all parts of you. Don't really act on it.

[~Christina]

I guess for some couples this "open relationships" can work ... Your situation is so very complicated.. Her student loans and talks you have had with her about paying them and how she must get a job like. right. now.

So here you bring up wanting to be with other women.. what could she possible say ??? She very well may feel backed in a corner and felt the only thing she could say is yes.. I'm sure she has fears of the entire marriage ending.

I would just think that getting your current relationship on track and both feeling strong, wanted and needed and then revisit the idea of an open marriage .. Just my opinion.

Good Luck with everything.

[Rose76]

A lot of the time, people are the worst judges of their own feelings . . . or potential feelings.

Many years ago, I was in an "open" relationship. I had agreed to it. The guy said he could not be faithful and I figured we would just enjoy our time together with no strings. That went on for a few years. I found out that I was way more jealous than I expected to be when I would become aware of him being with someone else. So - after some years - I ended it.

To his own shock (and mine, too) he missed me way more than he expected to. He then spent several years trying to contact me and get me back into a relationship . . . even saying we could get married. Shortly, after leaving him, though, I found someone else with whom I am still with.

So, my point is that, although she tells you she will be okay with you being with other women, I doubt that is really true. The only way she would really be okay with it would be if she didn't really care that much about you. That is true for women who love sex and just as true for women who don't. Either type of woman will feel betrayed if you go elsewhere, unless the woman is not really in love with you. If she's not, you might as well end it altogether.

It is perfectly normal for men and women to feel yearning for sexual relations with others outside the relationship. The mistake is to imagine that it is possible to have your cake and eat it, too. Once you both know that you have been intimate with someone else, it is highly likely that what you have together right now will be unalterable changed . . . for the poorer. Is what you do have now worth risking?

Also, there is no such thing as totally safe sex. In the throes of excitement anything can, and eventually does happen. If she is actually imagining that you can guarantee that you will never come home with something that could potentially give her cervical cancer, then you both need to have a talk with a doctor.

People with different sexual appetites do make lasting relationships, though I think it is a source of strain. That might not be what's really going on - or not going on - in your marriage. I think a relationship is about as strong as the warmth and affection that the two people feel for each other. When that dwindles, there is really nothing left. When it's there, it tends to be more important than anything else - IMHO. Good luck. Maybe take a vacation and go somewhere special together and see if what brought you two together is still there, or not.

[hamster-bamster]

Originally Posted by Rose76

If she is actually imagining that you can guarantee that you will never come home with something that could potentially give her cervical cancer, then you both need to have a talk with a doctor.

that one should be off their worry list since she is a young woman and young women these days are immunized. I think everybody before age 26 is vaccinated. My older daughter was vaccinated at 13. Both FDA-approved vaccines have been available for a few years already so hopefully Sarah is safe. Other STD's might be an issue but the problem of the cervical cancer has largely been solved for the newest generation. Well, vaccination does not completely obliterate the problem, but it makes it far less likely to appear.

Originally Posted by hamster-bamster

that one should be off their worry list since she is a young woman and young women these days are immunized. I think everybody before age 26 is vaccinated. My older daughter was vaccinated at 13. Both FDA-approved vaccines have been available for a few years already so hopefully Sarah is safe. Other STD's might be an issue but the problem of the cervical cancer has largely been solved for the newest generation. Well, vaccination does not completely obliterate the problem, but it makes it far less likely to appear.

Not strictly true am afraid - there is no vaccine that protects against all strains of HPV, or all of the ones that can cause cancer. Plus not all women get them. It is a step in the right direction but still good to be cautious.

[hamster-bamster]

Originally Posted by riotgrrrl

Not strictly true am afraid - there is no vaccine that protects against all strains of HPV, or all of the ones that can cause cancer. Plus not all women get them. It is a step in the right direction but still good to be cautious.

no, not all strains, just most. But definitely all women eligible to get the vaccine should do so and all parents of girls should have their daughters vaccinated as soon as the girls reach the age of eligibility

[Big Mama]

wait this is a thread about permission to have sex w/ someone besides your wife. Please don't argue over the usage of the HPV vaccine.

[hamster-bamster]

Oh, I was not arguing. I was recommending it - I thought it was a straightforward issue. I did not realize there was an argument.

[Big Mama]

sorry hamster, I want to avoid an argument. HPV vaccines are availiable for young girls who parents decide they should have the vaccine. And for any young woman wanting thee vaccine. I do not plan on getting the vaccine for my daughter, but who knows after a few more years of studies and time passing to see if the studies are correct then I may change my mind. For the time being it is my own personal perception that a disagreement could show up here on Adams thread about HPV. The HPV vaccine deserves a location of it's own. I'm not saying there is an argument, just wanting to avoid one. Things like vaccines, religion, and politics are iffy.

[hamster-bamster]

Oh, I see. Sorry. Will not distract from the core topic.

[Moodmuse]

Originally Posted by adam_k

I was talking to my wife recently. Trying to be as open and honest as I can about me. We got on the subject of me wanting to be with someone else. My wife has been my only sexual partner and she has had a few before me. She said she was fine with having me have sex with someone else. At first I was surprised. She used to be the jealous type and now she would let me be with someone else.

At first I was shocked, but then I felt trusted that she would be ok that I could be with someone else. She did have a couple ground rules. No disease and the sex should be safe, which I would do both of those anyway.

For me the of being with someone else is exciting. To feel someone else and learn how to pleasure them. Sarah told me sex isn't really important to her. She said it is nice, and she enjoys it but she can live without it. For me I really enjoy sex. I feel almost euphoric afterwards. I like the feeling of being touched and desired.

Is it wrong to pursue this? I've never cheated on my wife and I don't consider it cheating if she permits me to have this. I feel wrong in a way. I wouldn't want her to be with another man (a women I would be fine with), why is it ok for me to be with someone? I'm confused, but excited.

My husband and I explored this issue a while back and decided not too because just the thought of my husband being able to "get off"on another woman made me physically sick. Also consider your wedding vows say. All that I've read up on it says most relationships end because of it. Enter this issue carefully. Maybe she's having some self confident issues herself. Good luck!

[adam_k]

I don't have any plans to pursue anything right now. I need to focus on me and get into therapy to better learn how to cope with my emotions. This all spawned from me telling Sarah exactly how I feel at my deepest level. Don't get me wrong, I love my wife and I think she is beautiful, but I also am curious of what it is like to be with someone else. Maybe this curiosity should just stay that. Maybe her response came out of guilt for her being my only partner and she having had other partners. I was just a little thrown off by her response. It seemed genuine and that she wasn't bothered by the idea as long as I kept it discrete and didn't get too attached to someone else.

I think before I pursue this I have to work on me. I need to be in the right state of mind, if it is even something I really want. When I think about what in my life has made me truly happy and all I come up with is falling in love. That felt almost euphoric compared to everything else. Maybe that is part of what my problem is. There isn't much in my life that satisfies me as deeply.

[hamster-bamster]

I think you have a good plan of action.

[Rose76]

When my S/O is not enjoying a TV program that he knows I am enjoying, he'll typically start complaining about how lame the show is. At that point, I usually tell him to feel free to change the channel. Then I sit back and wait to see how much of a moron he wants to be (keeping mindful of how many football games I've sat through.) Any man who thinks that a woman means "Go ahead and do that." just because she has said "Go ahead and do that." is possibly not betting as the smart money would.

[hamster-bamster]

Originally Posted by Rose76

When my S/O is not enjoying a TV program that he knows I am enjoying, he'll typically start complaining about how lame the show is. At that point, I usually tell him to feel free to change the channel. Then I sit back and wait to see how much of a moron he wants to be (keeping mindful of how many football games I've sat through.) Any man who thinks that a woman means "Go ahead and do that." just because she has said "Go ahead and do that." is possibly not betting as the smart money would.

I know I said that I would not distract people from the core topic of this thread, but I wanted to say that you are a saint if you persevere through football.

End of digression.

[Confusedinomicon]

I don't think this works well unless the relationship was already poly in some form. (Like the intention had been there from the beginning.) It takes a lot of trust and work to be with multiple people. Its better if you date someone within that community (or open) because it doesn't limit either partner to one person.

I have a good friend who has three SO and they live with 2 of them. They aren't bothered or become jealous of others and they are all aware of each others partners. Open relationships breed jealousy. Its hard to have sex without getting attached to some degree. Unless they are random one night stands...(then you have to worry about disease) Its probably better to continue doing some kind of weekly therapy and strengthen the relationship. Revisit after achieving stability in your relationship. If its still a desire, you can discuss this again, later. Also having a therapy session around this may help.

Originally Posted by adam_k

I don't have any plans to pursue anything right now. I need to focus on me and get into therapy to better learn how to cope with my emotions. This all spawned from me telling Sarah exactly how I feel at my deepest level. Don't get me wrong, I love my wife and I think she is beautiful, but I also am curious of what it is like to be with someone else. Maybe this curiosity should just stay that. Maybe her response came out of guilt for her being my only partner and she having had other partners. I was just a little thrown off by her response. It seemed genuine and that she wasn't bothered by the idea as long as I kept it discrete and didn't get too attached to someone else.

I think before I pursue this I have to work on me. I need to be in the right state of mind, if it is even something I really want. When I think about what in my life has made me truly happy and all I come up with is falling in love. That felt almost euphoric compared to everything else. Maybe that is part of what my problem is. There isn't much in my life that satisfies me as deeply.

Adam, this is your chance to make sex fun for both you and your wife. Together you can explore each other's sensual need's . You are both young and It is all about the love you feel for each other and the way you make each other feel. It seems that you love your wife and she loves you very much. I admire you for focusing on how you want to work on your emotional needs first. This will enhance not only your awareness, don't you think? Your wife must care for you to say it would be okay. I wonder though if it did happen how she would feel after the fact, as well as how you would feel consciously..
warm thoughts

[hamster-bamster]

Originally Posted by chilekat2

Adam, this is your chance to make sex fun for both you and your wife. Together you can explore each other's sensual needs .

Based on what Adam has posted so far on this forum and in the sex and gender issues forum, he and Sarah can lead workshops on that already.

Chilekat2, I do not know whether you have followed Adam - probably not - but it is not that kind of issue. They definitely have enough material to write several books on how to explore each other's sensual needs.

Originally Posted by hamster-bamster

Based on what Adam has posted so far on this forum and in the sex and gender issues forum, he and Sarah can lead workshops on that already.

good point, Adam is both creative and inspiring. He has great insite, especially pertaining to other's as well as himself. I am a huge admierer.
warm thoughts

[IceCreamKid]

The best thing you could do for yourself and your marriage would be to pay more attention to your wife and your marital relationship and less attention to whatever element of fantasy you are using to make yourself think the grass is greener in some other woman. Buy your wife a day at the beauty salon/spa, rent a fancy hotel room, book a dinner reservation, and go on a date. All the energy you are pouring into fantasy can be poured into making your marriage fantastic.

[unaluna]

Idk, I think the wife has disengaged from the rs, and this is just more proof of it. He came home from work the other day, and nothing has changed. She's still playing computer games and she doesn't bother to stop when he comes home. She's not paying back her debt, it's going to be on him. I wouldn't advise him to go outside the rs. I'd advise him to get out of the rs. And that's the last I'll say, really.

[hamster-bamster]

Originally Posted by hankster

Idk, I think the wife has disengaged from the rs, and this is just more proof of it. He came home from work the other day, and nothing has changed. She's still playing computer games and she doesn't bother to stop when he comes home. She's not paying back her debt, it's going to be on him. I wouldn't advise him to go outside the rs. I'd advise him to get out of the rs. And that's the last I'll say, really.

Maybe I am not caught up. I thought Sarah was going to get a. Minimum wage job to pay off the student loans, while Adam capped his contribution at 3K.

Adam, has she applied for jobs or is she still glued to the screen?