Open Releationships

While it sounds fantastic, it also is a very expensive proposition. For a man who is already struggling to help his stay-at-home-play-games-all-day-long wife pay her student loans which she acquired before marriage and totally on her own, it sounds a bit too. Generous. Why a dinner reservation? She has nothing to do and she has professional cooking skills. She should be cooking restaurant-quality meals herself, and not once in a while, but every other evening.

It seems like you and your wife are communicating, which is extremely important to any relationship, but especially in an open relationship. So long you're both honest about what's happening, and okay with it, then I don't think it's wrong. Monogamy is a social construct...no reason why you should be limited by it.

Safe and disease free is important. When I've had open relationships before the rules were basically be honest, be safe, and periodically get checked.

An honest and humble opinion - men are very primal.

I don't think I'd like my husband doing this but your relationship is none of my business. Therefore, I'm not going to judge.

Maybe you should have sown some wild oats before you married.

What you get out of sex is what you get out of sex; is not what your partner gets out of sex or what you get out of masturbating. It's your body and presumably it will behave with another woman as it has behaved with this one, leaving most of the rest of the equation in your head.

I'm reminded of learning to kiss? Remember when you kissed someone for the first time and went on to the next one, etc. until you found someone that you enjoyed kissing and being kissed by? Sex is kind of like that and what are you going to do if you, having gotten a bit of experience with your wife, choose someone younger and more naive than you and really enjoy teaching her or really enjoy that she is more curious or braver and more interested in your wife and will let you try X or fulfill Y fantasy? You can't put the genie back in the bottle; you can't go back to kissing someone whose kiss you liked "okay" when you find someone whose kisses feel better.

That's why it is suggested that we not get a real heavy duty masturbation thing going before we have partners or instead of partners, etc. because you get to liking and being use to your own hand and can't get use to working with a partner. Women (and men) are not interchangeable sex objects; it's not just a matter of either choosing the "best" kisser for you or the one who listens to how your day went and is a good cook. When you try to compartmentalize relationships, separate the physical from the mental, from the emotional, you get into heap big trouble.

We are all trying to become whole human beings and treating another like it's okay to take them in pieces (your wife's saying it's okay for you to sexually explore outside the marriage as well as your thinking about whether to give it a try) doesn't just affect one person, despite what one may think/say/feel. That's why polygamy is a bad idea, it spreads the male too thin; yeah it's possible to have a sex with multiple women, animals do it all the time, but it's not possible to have a whole-person relationship with multiple people; humans can only do things one-on-one. You don't see stallions going out and bringing food home to all their "wives" or trying to emotionally bond with them while doing the dinner dishes together. They just have sex and "protect" their wives from other, younger, more virile stallions. Male lions and such will kill another lion's young cubs if they are able to take over the pride.

Going with "nature" instead of trying to circumvent it usually goes better. Yes, men generally want more sex; you got to keep those expensive/time-intensive children coming for the continuation of the species but nowadays, we use our society to curb our instincts and work for quality instead of just quantity. Where's the quality in giving in to instinct and having random sex because it feels good? I did that with eating food and now I've got weight and health problems

There are college rankings. Top ten, top fifty, etc. There are Google search results that are ranked, presumably in the order of relevance and utility. There are rankings and ordered lists all around us. Still, people need not be ranked. Greenest, greener, green, grey, colorless. No. If you read OP closely, you will see that he just wants a different experience. Different, not necessarily better or worse. Sex with different people feels different. Kisses with different people feel different. Conversations with different people are experienced differently.

Differently does not necessarily mean better or worse, but just that - differently.

So the greener grass analogy is not fitting.

She said she has put in some applications for some local places.

I try to pay attention to her. I feel slightly rejected about it. A couple months ago she complained about not having enough sex and then I made a conscious effort to be more intimate. Now she says she can live without sex. She enjoys it but it isn't on her list of priorities.

I try going out on dates but she doesn't like to go out. Maybe it is my fault. I spent most of my marriage stuffing my emotions deep inside because I couldn't deal with them. Maybe I ruined this for being an emotional cripple for the last 4 years and now she may resent me.

I put on a lot of mask for people. I have done this for as long as I can remember. I have a lot of inner turmoil. Even with my wife. Somedays I go from thinking she is the best thing in my life, to feeling I hate her and she uses me out of convenience. I haven't really talked to her about this, and I used to think it was from my depression, but I am not so sure about that anymore. I make an effort to treat her as best I can, and accusing her of using me doesn't feel right. I don't think someone else could understand these feelings. I wouldn't be able to handle it if someone else felt like this towards me, so I choose to only embrace the positive feelings and tell myself. If it were big items I would maybe see things differently.

A few days ago I was having a rather bad day and I quit trying to hide how I am feeling around her. If I feel bad, then I don't pretend to be happy when I get home. I got home and I was sitting at my desk feeling really depressed and then I went upstairs. I just wanted to sleep, but I couldn't sleep because the antidepressants I was taking were making me feel really anxious. I remember sitting in bed and I start thinking she must not care anymore. She knows I don't feel good and she is just playing her game. She doesn't really care about me. Then I started thinking I don't really care about me. After that I just wanted to hurt myself. I went downstairs then and just sat on the couch for a while. A few hours later we went up stairs and went to bed. In bed I remember laying next to her and I started to caress her. Not really for sex, just to be close to someone. I remember going from feeling sad to being better. Then I though there is no one else in the world for me. It's very confusing.

In the past I would have just stuffed all my emotions inside and base all of my actions on what is the most logical thing to do at the time. If I was feeling bad, I would have acted happy and pretended like everything is ok. I would have tried to focus my attention on something. School, games, or somethings like that.

I'm not sure where these desire come from or even if it is what I really want. Sometimes I feel sexually frustrated. I really enjoyed sex when we worth both younger and there was much more chemistry. Over time it has gotten dulled. Maybe that is just part of a long term commitment. When we first dated she wanted me, and over time that has ceased. I don't feel attractive when I think about it. When she quit wanting it, I think It started to hurt myself esteem. I started to feel ugly and unwanted. I know I shouldn't feel this way, and I should be the one to feel good about myself.

I think back to when things had a lot of chemistry and the way she used to want me and I miss that. I think that is what I desire. I feel it is missing from my relationship and I don't know how to change it. How do you make someone want you? After 8 years should this be important? Maybe it is just my own insecurities and bad self esteem.

Adam, it sounds like you are doing alot of thinking. That is a good thing.

My H and I have going to marriage T. One of the greater things we have learned as simple as it sounds is communication. I don't hear what he says, because of past abuse, and his past abuse of me as well. He says get off the computer. I hear "GET OFF THE F N COMPUTER NOW" I see it as control and what he is really saying is get off the computer I want you to talk to me, I miss you. We have been spending 2 mo now saying what we want to portray now the opposite. Because of where I have been in life I hear controlling statements and due to where he has been in life he hears unappreciative and failure type of statements. So we are working on communicating.

You guys sound so much like my H ans I. He is angry from work and I stay away from him not because I don't care, but because anger scares me. He sees that as rejection. That might be part of why she pulls back from you in the bed room. Maybe she is unsure of how to deal with your feelings. What you feel rubs off on her. Ever notice when you are around someone who is happy it is easier to be happy, just like when you are around someone who is agitated it is like you become agitated to.

Maybe she is afraid of her own emotions. Her own feelings of failure. Her own insecurities. It is hard to have sex and enjoy it when you feel poorly about your self. Like I have said before I am not some boney chick, I might even be a little "fluffy". It takes more then a nice meal out to make a insecure girl feel better. Clothes shopping hurts my self-esteem, (look at what I have become) A spa date, my H got me one for x- mas. I have yet to use it , who wants to touch a "big" girl. A hair cut maybe, he will pay for it, but who wants to get near me. (again look at what I have become.)

These are my issues, they carry over into our relationship, they carry over into the bed room. A hair cut and buying shoes or pants, what could be more simple and human, but to me it is not that way. Your wife may feel the same way. You cannot change that in her. That has to come from w/ in her.

My H feels it is a direct insult to him that I feel the way I do. He is powerless to help me see the light, he is powerless to change how I feel, and he feels that I don't care about me or us. That is not my intent.

So the problem my not be w/ you. Part of why you feel badly might be what is going on w/ you but alot of the issue may be able to be changed if you do not take it as a direct insult from her that she doesn't want to be in the bed room w/ you, or seems to be closed off from your feelings.

I know that might be a long shot to see things this way and I could be wrong. This how things are in my life and may not be how they are in your life. But if you are looking for why things are the way they are this might be something to consider.

T might not be the worst thing in the world for both of you, together and/or individually.

I think the relationship you and your husband have it somewhat similar to mine. Except I internalize all my anger. She doesn't pull away from me when I touch her. She just gets annoyed because I always want to touch her. She says it is annoying that I hang on her whenever I am around. I'm just trying to show her that I still feel attracted and I enjoy touching her. I don't mean touching in a sexual way, just like rubbing her shoulders and holding her.

As far as all of the depression and mood stuff. She tells me she doesn't know how to deal with it. The only advice I can give her is that I don't expect her to make me happy. I am just looking for someone to support me and tell me things will get better and I won't feel like this forever. I think I am putting a lot on her with as open as I am being.

I was sleeping Saturday and she came to wake me up. We started talking and I told her something I am not sure if I should have. I started talking about my self injury and how I still get a lot of feelings of wanting to do it. She didn't understand it, and I tried to make sense of it. I told her it was a coping mechanism to deal with emotional pain. I said that I internalize all my anger and hurting myself was a way to release some of that.

I also told her I have a lot of suicidal idealization. She asked me how often I think about it, and I said just about everyday. I don't have any plans and I know it isn't the way to solve my problems. Then she asked me why I didn't go through with it. The only answer I could come up with was her. That feels wrong and I know I should live for me, but it was the honest answer. I wish I didn't have these feelings, but I do. Maybe I should have kept it to myself. After telling her I felt vulnerable and scared.

Telling her your feelings is not wrong. It does make you feel vunerable and scared. It is hard to be open. You were honest. Honesty will get you very far. I have been honest w/ my H about alot of things, it has costed us/me, but there are no secrets.

I understand that you are looking for support from her and that she doesn't know how to deal with emotions and such. I do not know the answer but I do hear you and I do understand what you are saying.

To be heard and understood is often half the battle. That is all I can offer is friendly ear that really does understand. I wish I could help you guys, I wish I could help me, I wish I could help me and my H. T is helping me and me&my H. Is T an option for you guys? Or an option for you alone.

Yeah. I am looking to get into therapy. I've called three therapist to try and find something. It is hard because of my work schedule, but I am sure there is someone out there who can help.

I don't know if she wants to do group. For now, she just wants me to get better.

Adam, I do think, reading the above post, and the previous ones, that you have got to work on your own self esteem. Do you see a therapist? Even cogniative therapy may help you, as its way to recognise the pattern that you are in of negativity, and try and learn some methods to deal with it.

From reading too, I think that you and your wife are both very depressed and unhappy. You deal with it your way, and she deals with it in hers. But you are both not working as a team.

You apologise so very much for your feelings and your depression, and you do not need to. You apologise for feeling hurt when she rejects your advances. The feeling of hurt is entirely natural, and nothing to be sorry for. Many many people would feel the same. You apologise too for your being an 'emotional cripple' and that she may resent you. This may be true, but you have no say in how she acts. If it was too much for her, then she should've said as much, and perhaps insisted on you getting therapy. She did not need to withdraw and play xbox games all the time, and not contribute to the marriage.

It seems to me, that without you both and I mean, both, getting some help in your own lives, and gaining some confidence in yourselves, that your marriage will never improve. You both need some confidence to commit to fixing this marriage otherwise you'll just be staying exactly as you are. You also need to communicate better with each other. Also, when you say that your being an emotional cripple has harmed your marriage, why did you tell your wife about your self-harm and feeling suicidal yesterday? Without sounding harsh, she is your wife, not a trained therapist, and by being your wife does not equal being able to understand/deal/respond well. And while I understand the feeling that you should be able to share everything, not everyone is able to cope with this - esp when she obviously has troubles of her own which will effect her ability to deal.

I really do recommend therapy for you both, individually and as a couple, so you may learn how to cope with everything better and communicate well. But you both need to be 100% on board with this, as it will be a tough journey. I really do wish you well.

Sorry, I wrote that before you posted about looking into a therapist.

As a woman, I'm offended by the "what we say isn't what we mean" excuse. It's tired. We - as a generalization - get offended by not having our words taken seriously, and then go out and don't say what we really mean and wonder why fights start. It's BS.

In regards to the original post, Adam, this is your life. Ultimately, I think that you know your self best, and you know your wife better than anyone here on these boards. We can all give you the best advice that we know how to give, but that still might not be the answer you seek. I have answers of my own that I'm seeking in regards to this type of situation. They don't come easy.

I think that people forget that everyone changes. When we grow and evolve over time, our needs change. The people who may have at one point been able to provide for our needs, may no longer be able to do so - and the reverse is also true. It might be a hard pill to swallow, but unless we are willing to adapt with our partners, then somewhere along the line, either we or they may become obsolete to the other. I've quickly come to realize that as I've grown and evolved over time, my needs have become different - not drastically so, but there have been changes. Through conversation with my partner, he has told me that he won't be capable of meeting some of them. It's now really only up to me to decide if I'm able to live with that. And if not, to decide what my next step is to get what I'm looking for.

Is that selfish? Perhaps. But do I not deserve to be happy as well? Telling a person to suck it up and not be selfish is akin to saying "just deal with your depression". We all have a right to happiness - but we also have a responsibility to make our paths to happiness as pain free to others as we can.

Perhaps your right. She doesn't know how to deal with this. She says she just throws her hands up and does her own thing because she doesn't know what to do. I'm not sure why I told her. I just don't know how to deal with it on my own and I wanted her to know how I was feeling. I think I was scared and reaching out. I know it is not normal to have these feelings but I do. I can say I don't and pretend to be happy, but that isn't dealing with anything.

Of course its not dealing with it, but why does it have to be either-or? I just think that you are asking the wrong person to help you. I know that it feels like you should share, but not everyone is able to help you, because they do not know how or understand your depression. There is no shame in that either. I really think its time to try and take control of your depression and try and reclaim your life back. Its scary, and by the nature of depression it will feel like its not possible, but with the right help (professional), hard work on your behalf, you may just get there. It's got to be worth a try hasn't it? And who knows, when she see's you trying to get help, and maybe you can relay some of your therapist's tips, she may be able to understand everything better. She may then be able to support you in her own way.

Oh, and if possible, perhaps go back to the doc to try a different type of anti' d's? Antidepressants, from what I can remember, shouldn't make you feel anxious for more than a week or two.
Good luck Adam.

At the moment I am not sure what my needs are. Everything feels like a mess. Depression was easier to cope with, than this blur of emotions. Everything feels so turbulent. It feels like I want to push everyone away, but at the same time I don't want to be alone. At the moment I am just trying to focus on getting into therapy and finding some meds that may help me not feel so depressed.

I feel you on this. It's a terrible state of affairs when depression is easier than what you're dealing with. I hope you are able to find someone to talk to so that you can start working out what you need. All the best, Adam...truly...

I know the thread has kind of veered a little, but I wanted to touch upon something you mentioned...

You mentioned that one day, you came home from work depressed and just went up stairs and tried to sleep. You said you also felt uncared for because your wife simply continued playing her games. This, combined with her telling you she doesn't know how to deal with your depression/emotions, leads me to believe she didn't know what you wanted or assumed you simply wanted to be left alone. I think that while you're looking for therapy (hopefully for yourself, plus marriage counseling, if she's up for it), you should be telling her tangible things you would like her to do. She can't read your mind, no more than you can read her's. If you wanted her to come sit with you, even just to sit, no talking, then you need to tell her that. I think this has been said, many different times, many different ways, in several of your threads... You two need to work on communicating together. I think it's getting a little confusing, though, with you sharing your emotions... You feel like you're communicating, but nothing positive is coming from it, and you still feel unheard in a way. You need to try to identify what you want out of your conversations with her. Do you want her to simply know what's going on in your head? Or are you trying to get something more, such as a change in behavior from her (ie, coming to sit with you instead of playing games). If you want the latter, then you still need to communicate that. I'm not saying that you want to change her, but if there is something she can do to help you, it might help both of you.. You to feel supported, and her to feel supportive.

Going back to the original issue, I feel like you made a comment about an open relationship, she responded "Sure, go for it" (roughly) and the conversation was dropped. I think you both need to explore this issue further. You still have questions that we can't answer, that need to be discussed with her, to find out what is really going on in her head in relation to this issue. To me, this is just another example of not fully communicating.

But, as I think you've realized, the most important issue is taking care of yourself and trying to find help for your emotions/depression. I hope you find a therapist that can help and the right meds for you. Good luck; keep carrying on.

My partner has given me permission to date her friend because i told her that i found her attractive in a different way. Also her friend apparently likes me, which i find odd because she keeps making fun of me. Which is what I like.

I think it can be ok if your partner is involved in the decision making process and is informed at all times.

I think it is not only OK but good. Making gentle fun of someone is a great way to like said someone. I am glad you are enjoying her making fun of you. Good luck.

I agree. I think the reason some posters questioned Sarah's real intent, based on the few words that she did say, has to do with observational equivalence: different underlying phenomena manifesting themselves via the same observable parameters.

Underlying phenomenon #1: "I care deeply for your happiness and wellbeing, and therefore am OK with your seeing other women."

Underlying phenomenon #2: "I am indifferent towards you and you can do whatever you want with your time, sperm, etc. etc."

Underlying phenomenon #3: "You disgust and annoy me and the less time I see you at home, the better. So get out and date other people to your heart's content, and I will interact with my online friends as I play my games, undisturbed by your presence."

To sum up, it can be positive, neutral, or negative, and you will need to do some more digging to figure out what exactly it is.

After recent events I vote for number 2. I think she quit caring.

good analogy hamster, I hope it is option # 1. It was option number 1 when I told my H that.