How much does 'marriage' mean to you?

Spinning off seeker's thread ...

Personally, love and trust means a lot more than a mere piece of paper.

I'm not sure if this is my generation's way of thinking, or whether it's religion or something else that determines your view on this.

Firstly, I have a great family role model in terms of relationships - my parents were married over 25 years before my mum passed away.

However, while I think marriage is lovely and I'm sure I will get there one day, I could *not* imagine not living with a partner first ... 'try before you buy' ...

And at the end of the day, what IS a marriage certificate? What does it give you that the intimacy, love, trust, and understanding you already have with your partner, doesn't?

I can't see it. Marriage in many ways is a farcical outdated institution to me ...

How many people marry for the wrong reasons? Even to get greater student allowances, to get someone immigration rights, to get MONEY for getting someone those immigration rights?

And how many people are happily together without having 'formalised' it ... they may one day, but their relationship is strong and secure WITH OR WITHOUT A PIECE OF PAPER.

Any thoughts?

Oh sure, I have thoughts on this!
Marriage for me was a natural order of things...very simple we fell in love, lived together for a year and married.
That part's simple...what gets complicated is the re-introduction of the individual personalities and how they blend together over the years.
The piece of paper is archaic, to be sure, but what it represents is like all time honored traditions...a respect for the past and a hope for the future.
When you finally realize that your spouse is not put on this world to live up to your expectations (and you are not put here to live up to hers), then you cherish the few times you come together and actually share the important, beautiful parts of life.
They are fleeting, to be sure, but they are worth it.

You did it the way that most people I know do it ...

I think it sounds like you have some beautiful things going on.

But why is it only a 'few' times you come together?

I dunno, the relationships I have had ... breaking up has been more about not 'fitting' together right at the time ... I always somehow hoped there would be 'more' than that.

I am so sure I will get married. But whether that is before or after having children in a relationship ... I don't know.

I think views on marriage as a lifetime commitment are changing too. The divorce rate is approx 1/3? I can't remember the exact figure. The way I have seen it explained is ... people are coming to treat marriage as NOT a lifetime commitment, but a commitment to the person you are with *at that time*. Being divorced isn't so dire. You might have two or three actual serious relationships in your lifetime. Whether you marry any of them or all of them is not so important.

I think it is a reflection of the instability of society ... the uncertainty ... the pressures that the Internet can put on relationships. My dad's good friend - his first wife started internet dating (she always was extremely flaky, but a nice woman I'd thought) behind his back on THEIR computer. She ran off with the guy.

In some ways i think that's terrible ... but maybe it's also positive ... are less people are stuck in unhappy relationships because separation or divorce is more societally acceptable?

I also see that as having spinoffs for children. For so long a 'broken home' was viewed so negatively. I've read a lot of material that purports that children do much better where they have two parents civilly living apart than when they have two parents living together with massive tension and anger. The main thing is that they have good parental (or other) role models. It doesn't need to be in a NUCLEAR FAMILY situation.

/end rabble

Marriage is the ultimate arrangement of LoVe, when done right.... this is the place where the two can indeed become one.


LoVe,
Rhapsody -

Rhap ... just asking (please don't be offended).

But why is it more ultimate that what I had with my ex boyfriend ... we broke up when I went overseas and now he is in a different city ... I see him on Tuesday and I can't wait ...

But how can it be more ultimate? That just sounds ... marriage does not make love more exclusive.

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drunksunflower said:
Rhap ... just asking (please don't be offended).

But why is it more ultimate that what I had with my ex boyfriend ... we broke up when I went overseas and now he is in a different city ... I see him on Tuesday and I can't wait ...

But how can it be more ultimate? That just sounds ... marriage does not make love more exclusive.

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I guess ones has to be married to understand that special inner feeling of knowing that another is committed to YOU for LIFE... for better or for worse, especially during the worse... with in a marriage for LIFE you literally become connected spiritually to the other person.

AND - I was not offended by your question (it was a good one) and my reply was not directed at you in particular..... your name was just the victim of being the last one posting before I posted, hence your name showing up to my reply............. I think any LOVE is GRAND!!

LoVe,
Rhapsody - ((( hugs )))

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Rhapsody said:
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drunksunflower said:
Rhap ... just asking (please don't be offended).

But why is it more ultimate that what I had with my ex boyfriend ... we broke up when I went overseas and now he is in a different city ... I see him on Tuesday and I can't wait ...

But how can it be more ultimate? That just sounds ... marriage does not make love more exclusive.

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I guess ones has to be married to understand that special inner feeling of knowing that another is committed to YOU for LIFE... for better or for worse, especially during the worse... with in a marriage for LIFE you literally become connected spiritually to the other person.



LoVe,
Rhapsody - ((( hugs )))

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Sorry but that sounds like you are trying to justify marriage.

WHAT RIGHT HAVE YOU

or anyone else

to say that my connectedness and love is not as 'special' as yours?

I'm really insulted, as I believe I have experienced some very beautiful things in relationships. That many people (perhaps you, as you're trying to justify it????) have never experienced at all.

Spirituality doesn't need to be religious ... so if marrying in front of 'god' ... is the reason for 'spiritual interconnectedness'

that doesn't wash with me

i'm interested ... but very sceptical that marriage is anything more special than a relationship that is not bound by a piece of 'archaic' paper.

Are you looking for opinions DSF or debates? I will gladly give my opinion based on having lived with a man and now being married over 12 years to another man.

I will add here in the USA our divorce rate is over 50%

Let me know on opinion vs debates as I am not fond of debates in a MH site

I do think that marriage is a statement of commitment. I also think, perhaps in a biased manner because of my experiences, that the woman is the one who ends up suffering in a longterm relationship without marriage, particularly if children are part of the picture.
At the same time, I want to add that I do not know a single married couple whose relationship I would want to emulate.
Now, I also want to mention here that I am, and have always been, amazed at the gaudy waste of weddings! So much expense, and many end in divorce. I would prefer a simple mountaintop ceremony with a few close friends if the opportunity presented itself.
DSF, it's just at this stage in my life, from this point forward, I can no longer extend myself emotionally (and especially physically!) to someone who is playing games.
Patty

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drunksunflower said:
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Rhapsody said:
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drunksunflower said:
Rhap ... just asking (please don't be offended).

But why is it more ultimate that what I had with my ex boyfriend ... we broke up when I went overseas and now he is in a different city ... I see him on Tuesday and I can't wait ...

But how can it be more ultimate? That just sounds ... marriage does not make love more exclusive.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">


I guess ones has to be married to understand that special inner feeling of knowing that another is committed to YOU for LIFE... for better or for worse, especially during the worse... with in a marriage for LIFE you literally become connected spiritually to the other person.



LoVe,
Rhapsody - ((( hugs )))

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Sorry but that sounds like you are trying to justify marriage.

WHAT RIGHT HAVE YOU

or anyone else

to say that my connectedness and love is not as 'special' as yours?

I'm really insulted, as I believe I have experienced some very beautiful things in relationships. That many people (perhaps you, as you're trying to justify it????) have never experienced at all.



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I NEVER said that................ just stating how I feel about marriage and love (and) btw - i said: ALL LOVE IS GRAND!!! - my married love was once dating love.

LoVe,
Rhapsody - ((( hugs )))

DSF, this is why I would like it clarified if this is to debate marriage or state experiences and opinons. I read what Rhap wrote as HER experience and opinion not as an affront on your dating relationships

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Sorry but that sounds like you are trying to justify marriage.

WHAT RIGHT HAVE YOU

or anyone else

to say that my connectedness and love is not as 'special' as yours?

I'm really insulted, as I believe I have experienced some very beautiful things in relationships. That many people (perhaps you, as you're trying to justify it????) have never experienced at all.

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Nah she said something about marriage being more unique/committed.

given the number of relationships that break up DESPITE that piece of paper ...

to me it's the person you're with that should give you that experience not 'nuptials'.

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drunksunflower said:
Nah she said something about marriage being more unique/committed.

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I said:

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Rhapsody said:
I guess ones has to be married to understand that special inner feeling of knowing that another is committed to YOU for LIFE... for better or for worse, especially during the worse... with in a marriage for LIFE you literally become connected spiritually to the other person.

AND - I was not offended by your question (it was a good one) and my reply was not directed at you in particular..... your name was just the victim of being the last one posting before I posted, hence your name showing up to my reply............. I think any LOVE is GRAND!!

LoVe,
Rhapsody - ((( hugs )))

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MEANING...... it is wonderful to know that someone is committed to YOU for LIFE. (nothing else).

DSF she and I may share the same belief and opinion that marraige is most often (not always ) a more committed relationship. The stats back that up as far as people who live together before marriage have a very high rate of divorce due to the "it is just paper belief" I cannot speak for Rhap or you but can say that studies find married people make more money individually and live longer lives. This does NOT take away from good relationships we have all had outside of marriage (before ) . Love is love but marriage is a commitment. Odds are on my side in 15 years my husband and I will still be together...odds are (this is not a slam ) that you and your EX will not be. I am sure MR DSF is somewhere out there. I have been in all spots in my life. Had cool male friends... *FB's* if you get my drift but it is not the same as marriage. Trust me marriage has it's down sides too but its a more stable relationship. Apples and oranges

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drunksunflower said:
Nah she said something about marriage being more unique/committed.

given the number of relationships that break up DESPITE that piece of paper ...

to me it's the person you're with that should give you that experience not 'nuptials'.

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I should add that when I speak of marriage I am talking about one that is made wisely not for cash and some of the other reasons many marry. The reason the relationship is more stable is because of the LEVEL of commitment.....Now can I come see you in NZ come your summer?

I have been in alot of relationships in my lifetime. I have been married 4 times now. before you say something is wrong with me let me explain...2 were abusers. 1 was an alcoholic. The man I am married to is wonderful! He treats me very well.
I think in any relationship you need to be best friends. that is what makes people feel connected to their partners. At times I have felt much more connected to someone I wasn't married to. I mean as like a live in situation. just my 2 cents worth

Having been married twice and involuntarily divorced once, I still say that marriage is fantastic... I would still choose getting married over not, even if this marriage were to end.

Marriage is great - divorce is terrible. But then again, so are breakups.

Before both marriages, I lived with them for 4-5 years prior to getting married. I absolutely believe that it is essential to live together before getting married (although not necessarily before getting engaged, but that's another discussion).

Are we more committed now than before we were married? Yeah, we are. Before we got married, we always told each other that our relationship was "for life" and planned to grow old together, and that our commitment was absolute. But even after 5 years together, something magical happened to our relationship after we got married. The commitment felt a lot more powerful, which was interesting because we already had felt ultimately committed prior to our wedding.

So, I can't speak for all marriages, but mine is much, much more than just a piece of paper.

Also having being married twice and going through the trauma of a divorce (which darn near killed me), I can only agree with LMo.

I have respect for those that choose not to marry, but for me, as LMo said, it means way much more to me than a piece of paper - that part was just a technicality.

I have Libertarian views on marriage and society. I don't care if others in society practice monogomy, non-monogomy, or polygomy as long as they don't hurt others in doing such. To each his/her own.

Personally, I feel more comfy in the traditional sense of marriage. I see my marriage as a legal contract for society, my child, and G-d to recognize there is a solid commitment between me and my husband. Our marriage contract gives our family future security benefits and ensures our family lineage and values will continue for years to come.

My husband and I are soulmates, with or without the piece of paper.

We were together five years before we said, "hey, what the hell. Let's have a party."

We threw a huge splash! It was a blast! And we had cake!

That was tewnty years ago.

I know this is shocking coming from me, (that is, if you know me well), but I wish so much I had lived with my ex before I married. Perhaps it would have saved me much heartache down the road and so much less legal entanglement and abuse. Trying to stick it out just because you're married is stupid, and believe me, I have my "Here's Stupid" sign.

Sadly,

Jan

The thread topic asks How much does 'marriage' mean to you? Why then, is anyone arguing with what another posts? If support for living together rather than making a committment of marriage is what you wanted, perhaps you might have phrased the thread differently.

A strong marriage, imo, is the basis for a strong family and a stronger society. Statistics prove out that living together before marriage does not guarantee a long marriage, in fact, it shows the opposite. Before you go quoting divorce statistics, why not look and see how many of the divorces were of ppl who lived together first? Also, why not check to see WHY they decided to finally get married, perhaps it was because of a child... only to prove another point that any reason to get married is not a good one... it takes love. Some ppl only live together to satiate their sexual and loneliness desires, maybe to try to reduce their fear of STDs, but also because they aren't sure they love someone enough to marry them...yet.

This topic has many, many avenues to pursue... again, it you need support for where you are in life regarding relationships, ask for it, I'm sure you will find it here at PC. (((dsf))))

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PasDeDeux said:
Are you looking for opinions DSF or debates? I will gladly give my opinion based on having lived with a man and now being married over 12 years to another man.

I will add here in the USA our divorce rate is over 50%

Let me know on opinion vs debates as I am not fond of debates in a MH site

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Opinions with discussion

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PasDeDeux said:
DSF she and I may share the same belief and opinion that marraige is most often (not always ) a more committed relationship. The stats back that up as far as people who live together before marriage have a very high rate of divorce due to the "it is just paper belief" I cannot speak for Rhap or you but can say that studies find married people make more money individually and live longer lives. This does NOT take away from good relationships we have all had outside of marriage (before ) . Love is love but marriage is a commitment. Odds are on my side in 15 years my husband and I will still be together...odds are (this is not a slam ) that you and your EX will not be. I am sure MR DSF is somewhere out there. I have been in all spots in my life. Had cool male friends... *FB's* if you get my drift but it is not the same as marriage. Trust me marriage has it's down sides too but its a more stable relationship. Apples and oranges

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drunksunflower said:
Nah she said something about marriage being more unique/committed.

given the number of relationships that break up DESPITE that piece of paper ...

to me it's the person you're with that should give you that experience not 'nuptials'.

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Yea but I do still love him and now we have both been away and seen the world ... who knows if he will be Mr DSF or not?

And if he isn't, I don't know if I will get married, but my relationship will be just as sacred as if I have a piece of paper noting that well actually i am 'married' to him.

All i