So the bf is supposed to come over for a visit. Up until a couple days ago he was thrilled...eager even. Of course, I recognized the pattern...he gets way eager just before the flip side comes out..when he gets distant. So I enjoyed it for what it was, and waited.

Sure enough, a couple days ago he got distant, didn't say he loved me when I said it to him (at the end of our skype visits). I finally called him on it, gently and he said the words mean nothing to him, it's about actions. It's an old saw and I said ok. (Nevermind, that forming the words and saying them IS an action.)

I mentioned why they are important to me but he just insisted they weren't important to him. So I let it go. I did ask him later if he still wanted to marry me as that was his original plan and the reason why we've gone thru all of this hell...and he said (not unexpectedly) he didn't know...he didn't know if he wanted to get married. He stated that we didn't really know each other because we'd only been in person company twice (both times for 2 weeks) and then this time (although we've known each other for years and have talked daily for better than a year) I mean.... I didn't even address it.

Because, quite honestly, I don't care anymore. I have my own issues I have to deal with now...and he has issues I knew (recently) I was going to have to deal with...but he's hurt me so many times with his push pull, mood swinging ... and he's supposed to be here in a few days. I almost wish he wouldn't.

I feel like even tho I've started my new life, I"m still on hold waiting for him. He was supposed to 'propose' properly to me when he comes over...that was his idea. We've known we were going to marry...again, his idea...and so now I'm thinking..effin h*** , does he expect me to be his forever gf? Sooo not gonna happen.

So I'm angry, furious, past furious and I know I'll crash soon and that makes me angrier because there will be tears and regrets and I just want to tell him he's a jerk and stay the h*** where he is.

Except I think I still love him. I just hate what he's doing to us, and has been doing for months. And I know we're gonna have to have *that* conversation if he does come...and I don't want it. In fact, I'm afraid of it. I just don't know what to do.

I know it's me...I know its not real, but I just don't know what to do except sit very very still and hope it passes. I know he feels my distance because I can't help but show it, because I'm afraid. I can't pretend anymore and when he shows his eagerness again, I'm afraid I'll just tell him off, just to watch him slink away. That's so awful .... he's hurt me so many times. I hate myself for feeling like this and I hate that he's done this to me and has ruined our visit even before he's gotten here.

[gayleggg]

Sounds like your life is like a rollercoaster. Anyone would feel angry, fed up and distant with this kind of behavior going on. You are going to have to decide if you can live with this behavior the rest of your life if you marry him. His behavior is not likely to change. Even if he does love you, this kind push and pull behavior can only cause you pain. It's up to you if you are going to take it. Best wishes whatever you decided.
Gayle

Originally Posted by gayleggg

Sounds like your life is like a rollercoaster. Anyone would feel angry, fed up and distant with this kind of behavior going on. You are going to have to decide if you can live with this behavior the rest of your life if you marry him. His behavior is not likely to change. Even if he does love you, this kind push and pull behavior can only cause you pain. It's up to you if you are going to take it. Best wishes whatever you decided.
Gayle

I know, Gayle you're so right. I know the 'talk' is gonna kill me but I just don't think I can do this anymore. It's frustrating because he is such a child about everything...I keep wondering if I was only here to free him from a bad situation and now, I'm not needed anymore. Not sure which hurts more, that realization or the realization what we had was a temporary that just lasted years...but was never meant to be permenant.

Aside being continually hurt and feeling so wrong-footed by this chap of yours, please don't marry a man you do not know... as you've already admitted, you've seen each other twice. I am not belittling your feelings, goodness no, but you do not know each others real selves. If you stay with this man, please, live together first for a couple of years.. It's hard enough, it really is, without being near strangers.

Originally Posted by riotgrrrl

Aside being continually hurt and feeling so wrong-footed by this chap of yours, please don't marry a man you do not know... as you've already admitted, you've seen each other twice. I am not belittling your feelings, goodness no, but you do not know each others real selves. If you stay with this man, please, live together first for a couple of years.. It's hard enough, it really is, without being near strangers.

I do agree with you, but that's a problem, unfortunately. He's from the UK and he's coming here to live on a fiance' visa so we have to marry withing the 90 day requirement one he gets the visa. We do know each other...more than expected, but I agree on a daily basis it may get much more difficult since I'm just now seeing his pattern of idealization and devaluation...making me so sad, and it's so hard, with my own problems to deal with it. He's in full on retreat mode...and I think I'm going to let him.

Thanks for the reply tho, I appreciate your thoughts

[healingme4me]

I am personally, the type of person that has a tendency to become withdrawn and sullen. No major reason, just the type of person I am. Part of my own past, neglect, being raised an only child, on and on. I sometimes, also become quiet and withdrawn, when tired, or really thinking about what someone said. Instead of coming out, with my opinions, I may sit and ponder. I've noticed this about myself, more. Yet, when called out on it, *lightbulb moment*, oh yeah, I'm not withdrawing from the person, but more *oops*, guess it's time to share what's on my mind.
That said, being withdrawn may be your fellas way of just being. It's when a person, is unable, unwilling, to just open up in the moment, and admit to what's on their minds, due to not being in touch with what their opinion is, is where there arises concern. Experience tells me, there's a difference from being withdrawn/sullen/whathaveyou and the silent treatment(which I have encountered in my former marriage--those are no fun)
I get what your bf means about tossing out the 'I love you's. I am like that. More now, than ever before. I found, from my past, how meaningless those words appeared in light of the struggles I endured. Actions, do speak louder than words. I don't, personally, need to hear those words uttered, to feel secure in a secure, comfortable, respectful relationship. There's many other ways, even in a LDR, to show how I feel and vice versa.
LDR's are tough. I get the notion of 'we really don't know each other' being said to you, YET, to me, that sounds like a passive statement that masks what he's really feeling deep down inside. If he's having doubts, it's up to him to express them, in a less cop-out statement fashion. Needs to say what he means, exactly, what does he mean he doesn't 'know' you. Being friends for years, and during this one year experience, why wasn't he asking you who you are deep down, where do you come from, what are your opinions on life, what are your personal life philosophies, how have you handled strife, so on and so forth. By now, especially with the distance, he Should, technically know you from the inside out. And even the quirky habits that you have, as during a LDR relationship/holding pattern, you'd have been as forthcoming as possible, little things about how the toothpaste is handled, cabinets shut/open, toilet lid stuff and all those little things that can annoy the p*** out of people, or not annoy people. By now, you'd expect to understand spending habits, credit stuff on and on and on. That's the disclosure that should occur in an LDR when it's talked about becoming more serious, marriage included. ((which, with the LDR, you do have the luxury of knowing all these things and more, and not be so quick to mask it with intimate moments under the sheets))

Don't know, what to tell you, if he is getting cold feet. I just know, I wonder what you mean about having been through H*** together, already?

Originally Posted by KathyOlivia

So the bf is supposed to come over for a visit. Up until a couple days ago he was thrilled...eager even. Of course, I recognized the pattern...he gets way eager just before the flip side comes out..when he gets distant. So I enjoyed it for what it was, and waited.

Sure enough, a couple days ago he got distant, didn't say he loved me when I said it to him (at the end of our skype visits). I finally called him on it, gently and he said the words mean nothing to him, it's about actions. It's an old saw and I said ok. (Nevermind, that forming the words and saying them IS an action.)

I mentioned why they are important to me but he just insisted they weren't important to him. So I let it go. I did ask him later if he still wanted to marry me as that was his original plan and the reason why we've gone thru all of this hell...and he said (not unexpectedly) he didn't know...he didn't know if he wanted to get married. He stated that we didn't really know each other because we'd only been in person company twice (both times for 2 weeks) and then this time (although we've known each other for years and have talked daily for better than a year) I mean.... I didn't even address it.

Because, quite honestly, I don't care anymore. I have my own issues I have to deal with now...and he has issues I knew (recently) I was going to have to deal with...but he's hurt me so many times with his push pull, mood swinging ... and he's supposed to be here in a few days. I almost wish he wouldn't.

I feel like even tho I've started my new life, I"m still on hold waiting for him. He was supposed to 'propose' properly to me when he comes over...that was his idea. We've known we were going to marry...again, his idea...and so now I'm thinking..effin h*** , does he expect me to be his forever gf? Sooo not gonna happen.

So I'm angry, furious, past furious and I know I'll crash soon and that makes me angrier because there will be tears and regrets and I just want to tell him he's a jerk and stay the h*** where he is.

Except I think I still love him. I just hate what he's doing to us, and has been doing for months. And I know we're gonna have to have *that* conversation if he does come...and I don't want it. In fact, I'm afraid of it. I just don't know what to do.

I know it's me...I know its not real, but I just don't know what to do except sit very very still and hope it passes. I know he feels my distance because I can't help but show it, because I'm afraid. I can't pretend anymore and when he shows his eagerness again, I'm afraid I'll just tell him off, just to watch him slink away. That's so awful .... he's hurt me so many times. I hate myself for feeling like this and I hate that he's done this to me and has ruined our visit even before he's gotten here.

Originally Posted by healingme4me

I am personally, the type of person that has a tendency to become withdrawn and sullen. No major reason, just the type of person I am. Part of my own past, neglect, being raised an only child, on and on. I sometimes, also become quiet and withdrawn, when tired, or really thinking about what someone said. Instead of coming out, with my opinions, I may sit and ponder. I've noticed this about myself, more. Yet, when called out on it, *lightbulb moment*, oh yeah, I'm not withdrawing from the person, but more *oops*, guess it's time to share what's on my mind.
That said, being withdrawn may be your fellas way of just being. It's when a person, is unable, unwilling, to just open up in the moment, and admit to what's on their minds, due to not being in touch with what their opinion is, is where there arises concern. Experience tells me, there's a difference from being withdrawn/sullen/whathaveyou and the silent treatment(which I have encountered in my former marriage--those are no fun)
I get what your bf means about tossing out the 'I love you's. I am like that. More now, than ever before. I found, from my past, how meaningless those words appeared in light of the struggles I endured. Actions, do speak louder than words. I don't, personally, need to hear those words uttered, to feel secure in a secure, comfortable, respectful relationship. There's many other ways, even in a LDR, to show how I feel and vice versa.
LDR's are tough. I get the notion of 'we really don't know each other' being said to you, YET, to me, that sounds like a passive statement that masks what he's really feeling deep down inside. If he's having doubts, it's up to him to express them, in a less cop-out statement fashion. Needs to say what he means, exactly, what does he mean he doesn't 'know' you. Being friends for years, and during this one year experience, why wasn't he asking you who you are deep down, where do you come from, what are your opinions on life, what are your personal life philosophies, how have you handled strife, so on and so forth. By now, especially with the distance, he Should, technically know you from the inside out. And even the quirky habits that you have, as during a LDR relationship/holding pattern, you'd have been as forthcoming as possible, little things about how the toothpaste is handled, cabinets shut/open, toilet lid stuff and all those little things that can annoy the p*** out of people, or not annoy people. By now, you'd expect to understand spending habits, credit stuff on and on and on. That's the disclosure that should occur in an LDR when it's talked about becoming more serious, marriage included. ((which, with the LDR, you do have the luxury of knowing all these things and more, and not be so quick to mask it with intimate moments under the sheets))

Don't know, what to tell you, if he is getting cold feet. I just know, I wonder what you mean about having been through H*** together, already?

Thank you for your insightful comments! You gave me a lot to think about and a few things to ask him as well. As far as knowing each other inside and out, we do.That's what makes the comment so frustrating and innane. But I agree...it's probably not really personal, he just has difficulty putting his emotions into reasonable words. Its not the silent treatment, I've experianced that with him too.

I think he is getting cold feet..but then so am I. So we'll see. Thank you again, so much...is amazing getting a view from a different window.

As for hell...I tell you sometime. Trust me, it has been.

[tinyrabbit]

So, on the one hand, I'll have to agree that actions speak louder than words. My husband doesn't say "I love you" as much as I do, but he shows it in many ways. I probably say it more than I show it.

However, it's a concern if he thinks that, because something doesn't matter to him, it doesn't matter. He should be interested in what's important to you, too.

Originally Posted by KathyOlivia

He stated that we didn't really know each other because we'd only been in person company twice (both times for 2 weeks) and then this time (although we've known each other for years and have talked daily for better than a year)

Sorry, but he has a point. Talking daily is no substitute for actually being in each other's presence. That's how you find out whether you really get on, there are a lot of things you just cannot work out at a distance.

I noticed you said you wanted to get married and he was supposed to propose. But where's the incentive to propose if you've already said you want to marry him?

Originally Posted by tinyrabbit

So, on the one hand, I'll have to agree that actions speak louder than words. My husband doesn't say "I love you" as much as I do, but he shows it in many ways. I probably say it more than I show it.

However, it's a concern if he thinks that, because something doesn't matter to him, it doesn't matter. He should be interested in what's important to you, too.


Sorry, but he has a point. Talking daily is no substitute for actually being in each other's presence. That's how you find out whether you really get on, there are a lot of things you just cannot work out at a distance.

I noticed you said you wanted to get married and he was supposed to propose. But where's the incentive to propose if you've already said you want to marry him?

Very good point both. I do have to add tho ...usually, when he's being 'good' he says he loves me all the time...ALL the time. Only when he gets like this, that it stops. Next week he'll be all about it again...that's the pattern...of course, he's supposed to be here so..that might change.

I've known him for over a decade. We met online years ago. No details but it went nowhere. Then we reconnected and got together last year and again this year and will again in a few days. We've been thru a lot together but it has all been online and I know he doesn't manage stress well. This is one of the surprises I've encountered.

I still think we would be good together IRL but I also keep seeing the red flags everywhere. It's heartbreaking.

Yes, he said he wants to marry me but wouldn't 'ask' me until he was here this time...I don't think he will. I think he's afraid...too afraid and I thought he was strong enough, because he led me to believe (as I think he wanted to believe) that he was strong enough for this. I think he was only strong enough to get out of a bad situation...but not strong enough to embrace a future that will take place so far from 'home'.

And yes, if I already said I would...where is the incentive??? It was taken from me last year when we decided together we would get married. How to unring the bell??

Just say no. Which, if he asks, I'll have to do. But he won't ask. So I"ll never know. And I won't be his lifetime gf and I don't think he would ask it. So for all intents, this will be the LAST visit and the LAST time we are together, which is why he's bottoming out, and why I'm crying all the time (and don't dare tell him).

Thank you for your kind words...I so appreciate them and you for bothering to try to unsnarl this mess.

[MrNisThinking]

Originally Posted by KathyOlivia

So the bf is supposed to come over for a visit. Up until a couple days ago he was thrilled...eager even. Of course, I recognized the pattern...he gets way eager just before the flip side comes out..when he gets distant. So I enjoyed it for what it was, and waited.

Sure enough, a couple days ago he got distant, didn't say he loved me when I said it to him (at the end of our skype visits). I finally called him on it, gently and he said the words mean nothing to him, it's about actions. It's an old saw and I said ok. (Nevermind, that forming the words and saying them IS an action.)

I mentioned why they are important to me but he just insisted they weren't important to him. So I let it go. I did ask him later if he still wanted to marry me as that was his original plan and the reason why we've gone thru all of this hell...and he said (not unexpectedly) he didn't know...he didn't know if he wanted to get married. He stated that we didn't really know each other because we'd only been in person company twice (both times for 2 weeks) and then this time (although we've known each other for years and have talked daily for better than a year) I mean.... I didn't even address it.

Because, quite honestly, I don't care anymore. I have my own issues I have to deal with now...and he has issues I knew (recently) I was going to have to deal with...but he's hurt me so many times with his push pull, mood swinging ... and he's supposed to be here in a few days. I almost wish he wouldn't.

I feel like even tho I've started my new life, I"m still on hold waiting for him. He was supposed to 'propose' properly to me when he comes over...that was his idea. We've known we were going to marry...again, his idea...and so now I'm thinking..effin h*** , does he expect me to be his forever gf? Sooo not gonna happen.

So I'm angry, furious, past furious and I know I'll crash soon and that makes me angrier because there will be tears and regrets and I just want to tell him he's a jerk and stay the h*** where he is.

Except I think I still love him. I just hate what he's doing to us, and has been doing for months. And I know we're gonna have to have *that* conversation if he does come...and I don't want it. In fact, I'm afraid of it. I just don't know what to do.

I know it's me...I know its not real, but I just don't know what to do except sit very very still and hope it passes. I know he feels my distance because I can't help but show it, because I'm afraid. I can't pretend anymore and when he shows his eagerness again, I'm afraid I'll just tell him off, just to watch him slink away. That's so awful .... he's hurt me so many times. I hate myself for feeling like this and I hate that he's done this to me and has ruined our visit even before he's gotten here.

Hi Kathy. First off hugs. I can see how you feel. Your hurting and I think you should call off the visit. It is causing you too much stress. You said he keeps hurting you so I think you should break up. I really hope you start feeling better. I hope you feel better soon