[mindy1963]

We have 2 daughters that are very well behaved. But mother is very strict, rigid on schedules and cleans and organizes a lot. The mother will get very authoritarian and bossy even when there is no need or prematurely. Raise her voice, not listen to reason, acts as she is always right, her way or no way. She went thru a period of smacking the girls in the face which was totally uncalled for, and stopped when i got on her about it. Seems to deflect blame onto something else always. Rarely if ever apologizes. Seems to show some preferences over one daughter to other. Always in good mood with new husband, then turn immediately grumpy, demanding and impatient with our daughters over nothing. Girls ask her a question she never gets down their level, only gives short clinical, non emotional answers. The daughters are more comfortable talking to me because I explain and listen to their concerns. The mother is somewhat prudish in ways like grandma 'Walton' or grumpy 'nun'. Sorry that is what it reminds me of. She is very religious and not very social. She has never had close friends. Seems to be anxious alot and depressed at times. Somewhat controlling and emotionally distant detached. Her father was emotionally and verbally abusive, extremely frugal, controlling and argumentive. The mother was emotionally flat and didn't engage much or shallow in emotions. The family has been described as odd or different. Ex wife was never sexually expressive. She had vaginismus but never dx'd with it but it was obvious. But always subtly made me feel like I had the problem, deflect the issue or not deal with it. Emotions seems to scare or frighten her. She would want attention but then not reciprocate. She Absolutely hates me 'her ex husband' and I never abused her in any way. Never cheated her in any way. I was supportive, helped with chores and kids. Not claiming I was perfect either. Nothing ever seems good enough to make her feel appreciated or done in time or right way. There were times not so bad but she was like this a lot. Heard others comment after our marriage odd things about her like some trust issues. I remember after we had a two week honeymoon and we got back home in the evening I wanted to go see my parents 10 minutes away and she didn't like it. They were older and no other family. I could have waited till next morning to go but after a 2 solid weeks together and being on a plane for 8 hours solid I just wanted to get out and away for a hour or so to unwind. The odd thing about it is 15 years later she blew up and said she had never got over me leaving her that night! After all the good times and my showing her I was there for her she remembers that one hour I was gone 15 years later and never mentioned it before. She wanted me to make a piece of furniture for her once and I would go to my dad's shop to make it on weekends for about 4 weeks. I would spend time with her on a Saturday and maybe go over on Sunday after church together. Then she would complain that I was gone and then wanted to know when it would be done. She wasn't overly controlling or demanding but just enough to make me wonder what the deal is with her. If I would call her out she would act like a victim and make me feel guilty. Maybe I am missing something but looking back I was mostly oblivious to this but knew something was off. The reason I am asking this is someone mentioned narrcissistic traits or some borderline traits? This really got me to wondering and curious. Any thoughts?

[Rose76]

Everyone and their dog is talking about who they know that can be described as narcissistic. Borderline is another buzzword amongst amateur shrinks. What difference does it make to slap this or that label on to someone? How is that helpful? Leave diagnosing to diagnosticians (as in M.D.s.)

Your concern is your daughters whom you love. If they are currently being treated badly, then figure iut what you can do about that.

I know some people believe that by putting a label on a person they are better understanding the person. I fail to see how. Concentrate on the behavior and what should or can be done about it. Behavior is wrong when it unfairly impacts other people. Maybe your daughters need affirmation that they are sometimes treated unfairly by their mother, if that is the case.

I heard a very eminent psychiatrist say, in response to a question I asked, that it can take a doctor 5 years to confidently differentiate between mood disorders and personality disorders in a patient.

The name of the game today seems to be - if you don't like someone and there has been ugliness between you and this person, then start describing to others how this person is a narcissist, or a sociopath, or has borderline personality disorder. Then ask who you're talking to if they don't see it the same way. If they don't, then try to think up more negative stuff to build your case.

After getting divorced, it's pretty normal for people to start seeing each other in a bad light with lots of faults that they were once oblivious to. As you say, "something was off," so now you are divorced and don't have to put up with each other anymore. Spend quality time with your girls and be supportive of them.

[healingme4me]

It's really hard to say, and would knowing, change anything? If struggling to cope with grief, finding a therapist has helped many. If reading up on both disorders helps, then by all means educate yourself.
It is tough, when parents aren't on the same page with childrearing. Perhaps, in time healthy co parenting can exist. It has happened for others, after divorce.

[mindy1963]

I know and you are right about the labeling of disorders, I agree. I wasn't wanting to label her or say she had a disorder. I guess traits would be better way to put it but that still makes your point I guess. Just still in shock I guess and trying to figure things out, but we all have issues and hang ups. Thank you

[mindy1963]

I guess I blame myself too much still. I come from a dysfunctional family myself. So I tend to blame myself way way too much. My ex has changed so much and maybe not. I tend to want to know cause and effect and answers, just my nature. Not trying to label her and she is not a monster. I did my best and guess I need to leave it at that..thank you)

[divine1966]

Originally Posted by Rose76

Everyone and their dog is talking about who they know that can be described as narcissistic. Borderline is another buzzword amongst amateur shrinks. What difference does it make to slap this or that label on to someone? How is that helpful? Leave diagnosing to diagnosticians (as in M.D.s.)

Your concern is your daughters whom you love. If they are currently being treated badly, then figure iut what you can do about that.

I know some people believe that by putting a label on a person they are better understanding the person. I fail to see how. Concentrate on the behavior and what should or can be done about it. Behavior is wrong when it unfairly impacts other people. Maybe your daughters need affirmation that they are sometimes treated unfairly by their mother, if that is the case.

I heard a very eminent psychiatrist say, in response to a question I asked, that it can take a doctor 5 years to confidently differentiate between mood disorders and personality disorders in a patient.

The name of the game today seems to be - if you don't like someone and there has been ugliness between you and this person, then start describing to others how this person is a narcissist, or a sociopath, or has borderline personality disorder. Then ask who you're talking to if they don't see it the same way. If they don't, then try to think up more negative stuff to build your case.

After getting divorced, it's pretty normal for people to start seeing each other in a bad light with lots of faults that they were once oblivious to. As you say, "something was off," so now you are divorced and don't have to put up with each other anymore. Spend quality time with your girls and be supportive of them.

It isn't funny matter but I laughed really hard at your post. It is so very true.

I think it is the case on PC. In real world abusive wives, cheating husbands and lying boyfriends are just that. On here they are narcissist so I guess it's ok then. My favorite ones are when people diagnose someone they have never met, like they talk to someone online who is being a jerk so they diagnose them with mental illness. And then ask here if that's the case

I believe if your ex abuses kids emotionally or physically you might need to talk to a lawyer ASAP and try to get full custody. What do girls say about their mom?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Rose76]

The very best way to know anyone's traits is to live with them. You lived with this lady long enough to have had two daughters. You know as much about her "traits" as anyone is ever going to know.

The two of you got married, thinking that you were going to be happy together. You were both wrong; it didn't work out. Right now the "blame" is kind of irrelevant. It doesn't sound like she was the most charming person in the world. If you want affirmation that the failure of the marriage wasnt all your fault, here: I'll bet 10 dollars to a donut that it wasn't all your fault. Be glad you have nice daughters, and have the best relationship you can with the two of them.

As your girls grow up and eventually get into long term relationships of their own, they will see how hard it is to make a relationship work. Then they will be more understanding of both their mother and you. They probably understand quite a bit already.

[mindy1963]

Yes I agree again that the N word gets thrown around way too much and I fall in that trap some. Hell 3 years ago I didn't know what it meant other than some stud or chuck priming in front of a mirror all day. All these disorders overlap, intermix, and sound the same, I have noticed that. About the girls, my daughters. Well they talk to me about things easier than their mother, I tend to engage more. They think she is way too strict and before that gets a response, our girls behave very very well. The mother seems to show more attention or preference to the out going sports star daughter. So this causes some competition issues. The daughter that gets left out says she hates the mother. The mother seems to let her new husband get by with things I would have never done or thought of. Nothing bad but he can play Xbox and not help much and he is perfect. I was always busy with work or helping with the girls or helping with our chores. The mother is not abusive but hard, cold and emotionally detached. Kinda like a moderate tiger mom. The smacking to the face I understand is not seen as abuse by some, but I have never seen the girls ever do anything close to needing a smack in the face. I have spanked a few times when they were younger but with a diaper or pants on and very lightly, gentle. I was belted when I was a kid, with a bruise and bled couple of times. They are leary of her some, and complain that she is hard to please and nothing seems to be right, soon enough, or not her way. She is a emotional robot like her parents, and I see why and don't want my girls to be like that. I am not trying to run her down really at all. I have been criticized some for giving her too much benefit of doubt some. I think some of my problem is I did my very best and didn't see some of this while married and only noticed it more when my girls started to point things out. Again not blaming her for everything. But I have learned that if you are raised by abusive neglectful parents you are oblivious or attracted to the same traits in a partner sometimes and not aware of what is really going on, it is normal to you. Heck I don't know. Sorry getting sleepy and probably babbling here. But people do make comments about her in neutral somewhat negative tone.
The girls love her but notice things are out of wacky in ways.

[Rose76]

Slapping kids across the face should be an extremely rare response, called forth by only the most egregious bad behavior. Even then, it's probably never the most effective way of redirecting a child's behavior. Your daughters, by now, are probably expert at not provoking this response from their mother. See to it that you shower them with the warmth that might be otherwise absent from their lives. How much time do you spend with them? Daughters love attention from dads.

Probably every parent who is human has a favorite child, if there is more than one child in the house. If Mom favors the sports-star kid, then you do something special with the other daughter.

Your daughters didn't get to select who they would have for a mother. You made that choice for them. If you now think you might have made a better choice, well - it's too late. Their mother is who she is. She's not a monster, but she's a robot. Your daughters love her, but one of them hates her. You might want to re-read your posts and decide what you really want to say. Here's what I'm hearing: "I'm not the kind of guy who dumps on his ex. Why, I even tend to blame myself for what went wrong. Now, let me tell you about this cold, miserable byeetch." That's what I'm hearing.

IF your daughters are being abused, then petition the courts for custody and ask to take over the job of parenting them by yourself. (In any case, after a few years, they will have more of a say, themselves, over where they spend there time.) Meanwhile, be the best father you can be. What are your plans for the summer to do something special with them?

[mindy1963]

Well rose76 I was careful how I worded 'smacking' and not slapping. I only saw her once smack my one daughter while we were married. It was something about brushing her teeth. I was standing right there and said 'what in the hell are you doing!?' All the other incidents were after the divorce and I never saw that only heard of it. I got after her and it stopped. I say 'smack' because it wasn't a full hard slap, but never the less not right and not warranted. My ex's father who has some major anger issues has tried to smack as well, and that's where it all started from. As far as me dumping on my wife, I try to be careful and not blame everything and everybody else in any matter. I hate games and not getting to the bottom of things and the truth, maybe to a fault at times. My ex has changed so much and I think I have alot of DENIAL working here. My oldest daughter '13' who is getting left out has been depressed about it and we are very close. I am close and do alot with both my daughters. Part of the problem is I was diagnosed BP 1 and went into a manic episode, no major problems before that. I was very high functioning before the episode. I never cheated or abused in anyway even during the episode which is now suspected was maybe brought on by antidepressants. I just became very unpleasant towards her and think it was 15 years of pent up frustration that just blew when she pushed me too far. I voluntarily admitted myself to the hospital and then came the diagnosis. I was dumped in the hospital with no support. Within a year after the dx I was divorced, helping take care of 2 elderly I'll parents and death of one (my dad I found dead) within the year. My mother lasted 2 more years with alzhiemers. And that's only half of it.
My ex would use the BP1 dx against my in a minute. You know, she is a cold hearted beeytch I am talking to my oldest daughter and may try to get her some professional help soon. We talk alot and says I am only one that gives her support and listens. Mother just tells her to suck it up as she tells me. I help both with projects, activities, and we do a lot together. This summer I am taking them to Florida to get away for 10 days.

[Rose76]

Sounds like you've been through a lot of tough things over the past few years. Going to Florida with your girls this summer sounds like an exciting, fun idea. The three of you will get to make some wonderful memories together.

Your daughters know you are interested and that they can come to you. It's a good sign that they feel they can confide in you. Don't make your time with your oldest daughter too much about discussing your ex wife. I would listen, but she really has to work out her relationship with her mother in her own way. You can't really keep yourself in the middle of that. She should have other things to talk about. Having meals together and going places with your girls builds their relationship with you. That's what your time together should mostly be about. It sounds like you do enjoy them.

[mindy1963]

You know it's funny now reading back through my posts and the helpful replies. I have been in denial about this whole situation. My ex was and still is a cold unemotional pain in the butt. I don't know what my deal is other than denial. I did my best. Hearing from others especially my daughters proves this. I came from a very dysfunctional family and blind or desensitized to some of the subtle signs and traits the the only way I can explain it. Who am I fooling...myself. I am there from my daughters and that's what is important. Thank you for your observations and comments.

[avlady]

i am glad you'll be able to take a vacation it sounds like you need one.

[Rose76]

I agree. It's about your daughters and you. Make that as warm and meaningful as it can be. They and you have a lifetime of sharing and caring ahead. Don't let the shadow cast by your - and their - unhappy interactions with the ex-wife hover over everything you guys do. Look at the upside of the divorce - the fact that you can have a relationship with your daughters that you make a "mom-free" zone.

Have fun and adventure this summer in Florida.

[mindy1963]

Thank you rose76. We will have a good time. All my one daughter talks about is getting away from her mother I appreciate your posts and the others

[~Christina]

Have you considered finding a Therapist that your daughters can see?

It would be really helpful for them to have a 3rd party person to vent too and learn ways to deal with there Mom.

Welcome to PC and enjoy your trip to Florida

[mindy1963]

Hi christina, sorry for slow response, very busy on vacation. Yes I am considering a therapist. My ex took them to a therapist after the divorce for a matter that just needed to be talked about as a family. I was not against them seeing a therapist and I think it helped. But the problem was my ex painted me as the bad guy and the therapist was totally against me and bought my ex's story hook line and sinker. I have been to therapist before myself, and I have never run into a therapist who was so biased and unprofessional in my life. I had to call in and cancel a appointment with her and my girls because my mother was in a nursing home with dementia and received a call they needed me there. When I called to cancel the appointment I got lectured about how irresponsible I was cancelling the appointment. I argued with her for 20 minutes about why I had to cancel and her attitude on it. I have heard in the therapist circles and others in the community that know her that she has a reputation of not being well received, more or less my negative opinion of her is not alone. But my ex has the therapist wrapped around her finger. My girls hated the therapist, I sat down with my girls and talked to them and sorted out the problem ourselves. Everything was my fault and I was the sole problem in the opinion of my ex and the therapist. My ex is never at fault for anything it seems. We don't communicate much anymore because everything is my fault and leads to arguements. I have always tried to get along and work with the ex whether I like her or not. My ex doesn't care whether the girls literally hate the therapist or not, to me this isn't healthy. I am trying to find a alternate therapist which will lead to more problems. My oldest daughter doesn't talk to her mother about problems because the mother doesn't listen, has to always be right and makes my daughter feel at fault or stupid. So my daughter talks to me alot, she says I am the only one that she can talk to. I agree a third party would be a good idea for her to talk to. She can't even talk to the ex's mother or father (grandparents) because of the same thing, it's her fault and she's the problem, my daughter according to them. The ex has changed so much and I am really beginning to believe turning evil. This is all so ridiculous and stupid, ex seems to be only concerned with her opinions and maintaining some sort of control. I really am waking up to a lot of this by what my girls experience with their mother and realize I experienced the same thing, I don't know if it's denial on some sort of codependency dance that I was not aware of. I grew up in a very dysfunctional family and now know that you can be unaware of some manipulation if you grew up in a manipulative dysfunctional childhood...duh. The girls really do pretty well but I see some problems and don't want them to go thru what I did growing up. They are much more balanced and mature than I was at their age. It makes me sick that I was fooled for so long and didn't see this. This is not what I imagined or planned for my kids. But the way my ex was raised, the way her parents act it all fits a pattern and she is carrying it on. I have fought to stop my family's dysfunction even though I didn't quite understand what was happening. So yes I am seeking therapy plus someone that they are close to for them to trust.