[llleeelllaaannneee]

Hi
I've been very socially isolated much of my life. Insecurity and avoidance, for the most part, has created this situation. When I have had friends I often get involved with people that chose me and that I don't fear rejection from. The problem with this is that because I become friends based on this criteria the friendships don't last long. I've repeated the dynamic where I get involved with someone that I felt ambivalent about from the beginning and will eventually bail on and the other person tends to be someone with rejetion issues that picks me because they are reinforcing that they get rejected (like I am reinforcing that all my relationships will end because someone becomes almost or actually abusive, people that get angry and passive agressive as soon as I make another friend or have a need of my own). Basically, I've had a handful of relationships with high maintenance people where I feel more like their lap dog then a human friend (and I totally participate in the begining with this role).

I have a new friend. There are aspects of this new friendship that are uncomforably similar to those of my past that I'm trying to break free of. I feel like a jerk because I feel like if I had other options I probably would barely know this guy. I'm not working and I have no friends. I volunteer and I try out any meetups in my area that I can afford that seem even vaguely suited to me. I'm trying and have been trying for a few years to make friends but this person is the first one that has "stuck" so far.

Right now, I know I'm better off for knowing this person. I know that my mental health has improved since we started hanging out. I know that if I don't hang out with this person that the risk is probably greater than whatever hassle is waiting for me down the road. I think that I can hide my ambivalence enough not to hurt this person's feeling but I don't know and that really concerns me.

I don't want to be a jerk and it's not really safe for me to be alone (I'm sure that sounds extreme to some but it's true).

This person has a lot of friends and aquaintences, alot. This person have people constantly calling and inviting him places. He probably goes to less than half the things he's invited to (he only invites me if there is a social event where he is playing music). Sometimes I think he just calls me everyday because he knows he can 'be himself' with me. Problem is, being himself means calling me when he's just waking and grunting and groaning as he wakes and then wanting me to go get food with him (along with other behavior that I think plenty of people would find off putting). We've been hanging out and he'll be talking like he's a five year old with a kid voice and then he gets a phone call and he puts on his adult voice for someone else...

I've tried toning things down so it isn't an everyday thing but he doesn't get the hint.
If I don't interact with this person now it will be to the detriment of my health. I've experienced prolonged social isolation in the past and my head goes really weird uncomforable places that have brought on serious boughts of anxiety depression paranoia and suicidal thoughts.
So, toucing base with him even if I don't like a lot of things seems better than not doing so.
This person does have a lot of good qualities and it'd be great to know him for years to come but I just don't like his idea of friendship and he makes it an all or nothing thing (he doesn't call people socially, they call him and he barely sees anyone other than me).

Does anyone else have relationships like this?
Any feedback that isn't about how to meet new people/make friends would be appreciated. Any shared stories could be really helpful to and I super welcome them.
Thanks for reading!

[seeker1950]

Hi, llleee, you said,
Basically, I've had a handful of relationships with high maintenance people where I feel more like their lap dog then a human friend (and I totally participate in the begining with this role).

I used to do that! I've acted in a subservient role to both male and female acquaintances. I think it stems from wanting to please, wanting to be liked, fearing rejection. In relationships with the opposite sex, I often found myself passively agreeing with many qualities that were truly objectionable, all so I would not feel rejected. I've been overly accommodating in many/all these subservient relationships. I no longer do that. Yes, it means I have less friends, but the few friends I do have, accept me for who I am, with no expectations. They give me space, since I, LIKE YOU, require time alone. I also suffer from social anxiety, so I refrain from a lot of social gatherings. Nothing wrong with that.

You may have to step back and ask yourself what are YOUR needs regarding relationships, rather than accommodating someone for whom your feelings are ambivalent.

I commend you for going to social meet-ups. I find it's really hard to bond with people to form true and lasting friendships, but those with whom you do find this are valuable in the most healing ways.

Hang in there!

[llleeelllaaannneee]

I realize that was a super long post so maybe I should just ask:

If someone calls you everyday and asks you out to eat daily because they don't like eating alone (and they have the $ to eat out all the time, I don't) and you know they have a history of having a "daily" person (someone not involved in other areas of their life, I know of two others he"s had) am I a jerk to keep the "friendship" going if I seriously question whether I even like this person generally and find a lot of their behavior off putting/annoying because I'm concernd my mental health will be worse without the contact?

[llleeelllaaannneee]

Originally Posted by seeker1950

Hi, llleee, you said,
Basically, I've had a handful of relationships with high maintenance people where I feel more like their lap dog then a human friend (and I totally participate in the begining with this role).

I used to do that! I've acted in a subservient role to both male and female acquaintances. I think it stems from wanting to please, wanting to be liked, fearing rejection. In relationships with the opposite sex, I often found myself passively agreeing with many qualities that were truly objectionable, all so I would not feel rejected. I've been overly accommodating in many/all these subservient relationships. I no longer do that. Yes, it means I have less friends, but the few friends I do have, accept me for who I am, with no expectations. They give me space, since I, LIKE YOU, require time alone. I also suffer from social anxiety, so I refrain from a lot of social gatherings. Nothing wrong with that.

You may have to step back and ask yourself what are YOUR needs regarding relationships, rather than accommodating someone for whom your feelings are ambivalent.

I commend you for going to social meet-ups. I find it's really hard to bond with people to form true and lasting friendships, but those with whom you do find this are valuable in the most healing ways.

Hang in there!

Thanks for the reply! I liked hearing that you've overcome this pattern and have some positive relationships now, gives me hope

I think I'm in an inbetween stage. I can see my past behavior and I'm commited to changing it and I can see the benefit of really defining what my own needs are. I've spent some time too observing people I admire and how they interact with others in hope of better understanding how I'd like to be in a relationship.

The relationship I have with this person is also kinda inbetween. I started telling him to call me back once he was fullly awake that didn't change anyting so then I just ignored his first call of the day and today I told him I didn't like tallking to him when he first woke because he wasn't fully present and it was like he was calling so I could wake him up by talking to me. He said he'd call back when he was more awake when it didn't seem selfish to me.

I don't put up with what I don't like but I'm starting to feel like I criticize him a lot and I feel like a jerk.
And, I feel like a jerk because I know that if I wasn't scared of not having the constant interaction I probably wouldn't know him (I would hang out on ocassion but he's given me reason to believe it's kinda all or nothing).

[Rose76]

I've had some patterns similar to yours. I really feel for you. It sounds like you make a lot of effort to try and better your life, but end up not getting much return on your investment. Like volunteering and going to the meetups . . . that's you doing a lot to enlarge your life and contact with others. I'm very sorry it hasn't yielded better friendships. I get that your emotional health is precarious and that you are in danger of deteriorating if you lose the human contact you have, unsatisfying though it is. I don't believe you're exaggerating in the least. I give you credit for having insight and being clear sighted about what you are up against.

A few years ago, I got tired of having a collection of relationships/ friendships where I was putting in more than I was getting back. As a kid, I was always volunteering as a way of feeling connected. As an adult, I've attracted people who see that I tend to meet others' needs and have some need that they can use me for. A few years ago, I burned out so bad on this that I started letting relationships go by the boards. It just stopped being worth it to me. So I'm alone more now, which I don't really recommend. I just got sick of the acquaintances that were coming to me with their needs. I'm still up to my ears in caretaking resonsibilities that I took on for my sickly boyfriend. Lately, I've been wishing I could just fall asleep and not wake up.

Your situation with this guy who wakes you in the morning to bring him food sounds very dispiriting. Do you consider him a boyfriend/lover? Being involved with him might be creating an impediment to you finding someone who would reciprocate more. If the relationship is not an intimate one, then maybe you could be a little less available to hop up to do for him. He's not going to pick up on any hints. Coming out and saying "No" to him might not have the dire consequences that you imagine, which I gather is that you fear he will drop his connection with you altogether. You are paying too high of a price for what you are getting, but I realize that you do know that already.

[llleeelllaaannneee]

Originally Posted by Rose76

I've had some patterns similar to yours. I really feel for you. It sounds like you make a lot of effort to try and better your life, but end up not getting much return on your investment. Like volunteering and going to the meetups . . . that's you doing a lot to enlarge your life and contact with others. I'm very sorry it hasn't yielded better friendships. I get that your emotional health is precarious and that you are in danger of deteriorating if you lose the human contact you have, unsatisfying though it is. I don't believe you're exaggerating in the least.

As an adult, I've attracted people who see that I tend to meet others' needs and have some need that they can use me for. A few years ago, I burned out so bad on this that I started letting relationships go by the boards.

Your situation with this guy who wakes you in the morning to bring him food sounds very dispiriting. Do you consider him a boyfriend/lover? Being involved with him might be creating an impediment to you finding someone who would reciprocate more. If the relationship is not an intimate one, then maybe you could be a little less available to hop up to do for him. He's not going to pick up on any hints. Coming out and saying "No" to him might not have the dire consequences that you imagine, which I gather is that you fear he will drop his connection with you altogether. You are paying too high of a price for what you are getting, but I realize that you do know that already.

Thanks for your reply, for understanding my fears and sharing some of your story.
Oh, yes, the burnout! I'm sorry if some of the relationships you let go during burn out were positive and if they were hope you can reconnect with them. I totally relate to the burn out.

So sorry if my wording was off. He doesn't have me bring him food he invites me out to eat. But I've told him I don't have the money to spend and even when I have more money I don't think eating out all the time is healthy. It's just weird that he calls every day and asks the same thing. It's like he doesn't care about hanging out with me specifically. He's really emotionally immature but he's also really passive so he doesn't pitch a fit when he doesn't get what he wants from me.

I'm in this odd place now where I can see what I'm doing. I like the distraction. I don't like feeling annoyed (grossed out when he's grunting and groaning on the phone for example) but I like having something to be annoyed about that isn't myself. Half of our interaction is lame and unappealing to me (I don't want to hear his last night's dream in detail) but the other half has been enjoyable (tho I think at some point I just won't like him).

As much as I can say he does this and that and I don't like it (no one likes to be talking and mid sentence notice the person they are talking to is answering an email on their phone) I also know I'm using him!!! That's what's so confusing for me. I don't think of myself as someone that uses people and it doesn't feel good.

[llleeelllaaannneee]

Oops, also meant to answer your question. No, he's not a boyfriend/lover. Recently he gave me a quick kiss (I don't know if he was going for cheek but he got neck) and I let him know right away that I wasn't interested in anything romantic (in any way imaginable!). He was fine with it.

We sort of dated a few years ago for a couple of weeks. We were hanging out and then we did a lot of kiss and cuddling. He didn't know we were dating because I guess he just does that with friends only but I let him know right then I wasn't ok with that.

Basically, I think he's just really emotionally immature and wants a mommy. I've managed to stay out of the mommy role but it takes effort sometimes with him!!!

[Rose76]

Sorry, I did misread about the breakfast. I strongly urge you to interrupt this pattern of having breakfast out with him daily. (or whatever it is.) One day soon, tell him something like this: "Not today, friend. Thanks very much, but I would like to stay home this morning. I'm just in the mood to stay in my pjs and have coffee . . . you go on, yourself." or whatever you can come up with.

It's very unhealthy to let someone else have this much control of what you do everyday. Obviously, you don't have amorous feelings for this guy. Instead of feeling like your using him as a buffer between you and isolation, maybe try taking this interaction to a higher level where you coax him into some activity that gets you bothvout of a rut. Like: "l'm not up to breakfast this morning, but how about coming with me for a walk later through the mall." or whatever.

I am reconnecting with a girlfriend I dropped a few years ago. My new policy is that I won't be as available to her, as I was, for things I don't want to do. For instance, she like going to casinos to gamble, which I have no interest in. Last time she invited me to have dinner with her at a casino, I declined. I told her that it is too boring for me to walk around in circles, while she plays the slots. She was disappointed and I didn't hear from her for awhile, but then she came around recently and we will have lunch soon at a restaurant, unconnected with a casino. I'm learning to renegotiate the terms on which I'll be with people. I believe you may have some room to do that also. Let your imagination roam and think of something to try new.

[seeker1950]

llleee, my experiences have taught me that the reason I ended up in lopsided, unsatisfying relationship, both romantic and friendly, was due to my low self-esteem. I've had social anxiety all my life, just really acknowledging it to myself recently. As a result, I've over-accommodated in relationships. I've never felt worthy, esp. in my romantic relationships, and as a result, went with men who "chose" me, thinking that was okay, even if my feelings were absent. It sounds a bit like what you are doing with this fella, though I don't want to project my own experiences on you.

I hear what you are saying about being alone, but the first thing I had to learn to stop the repetitive cycle of dysfunction, was to learn to be alone.
I'm older, so I don't mind my solitude. You sound young, so don't want to adopt a solitary lifestyle. I can appreciate that.

Going to the meetups, and other social events is a good idea, where there are no expectations, but where you might have healthy interactions with members of both sexes. I know one woman who met her soulmate by volunteering at Habitats for Humanity. I thought "how cool!"

It doesn't sound like there is a future with this guy other than as a casual friend. You don't need to be answering his call each morning and going out to eat. Do as Rose suggested, and, I would even go further, and cool it with him for a while.

[llleeelllaaannneee]

Yes, I need to cool it for awhile. This relationship confuses me and I feel ambivalence and I know that isn't good news. I also know that I don't feel right about myself in it.

I have a history of living a solitary life (I'm in my 40's). I've always been very introverted and on the side lines socially. I'm more confortable than most with being alone but I let it become extreme. I've had spotty employment for the past 5 years and ended up on disability (recently off, yea!!!). I've gone weeks without speaking to anyone and having my only interaction with another human be the checker at the grocery store. The isolation warped my mind. I've read about what happens to people in solitary confinement and these were the sort of things that happened for me. I fear being alone now when I never feared it in the past. But things are different now, I'm stronger. When that severe isolation took place and I ended up on disability I was in constant physical pain but now my pain is well managed, a huge relief. I need to remember that.

Still, I agree with you seeker1950, I think it's best my energy is directed at other social outlets. I like the little I have through volunteering and the limited work I do but the work involves little interaction with others. I'm working on moving to a place where I can have a dog!!! I'm very excited about this because I think I do need to focus on someone that is not me and have a responsibility I really care about in life. Also, I'm looking into other volunteer work that may be more social.

I so appreciate these forums. Talking to you guys has really helped me feel like I'm getting back on track. The support, ideas, sharing and encourgement mean a lot to me

[seeker1950]

Moving to a place where you can have a dog sounds exciting. I have three pets, the two dogs being rescues. The only thing I should warn you about, is that you can find yourself focusing on the pets rather than human interaction. My pets give me a lot of love, but I also abstain from travel and social opportunities because of them. I really can't afford boarding costs for travel and leaving them for an extended period, nor would I trust a pet sitter. I've gone away in the past and they've gotten sick, with the pet sitter not being as available as I had understood that they would.

I don't want to discourage you from getting a dog. But, taking care of a dog is a big commitment, financially and emotionally. I have a hard time keeping up with vet bills and grooming. Just something to consider.

[llleeelllaaannneee]

Hehe. Yes, I can see myself letting a dog or two become my focus and not socializing with humans! I will watch out for that. I'm hoping that the dog may help me meet people. There are dog parks near me and it would help me get out more. I've read that having a dog is just as good as a housemate health wise. My parents have already said they would doggie sit for me, they even offered without my asking when I told them I was going to try, so cool. Sorry your pet sitter didn't work out, coming home to my dog neglected and/or sick would be really upsetting.

[seeker1950]

That's great, your parents as pet sitters! Perfect! Yes, and going to the dog park would be a great way to meet people. My big dog is so loving, but I can't control him when we go for walks, as if he sees another dog, he gets out of control and knocks me down. My fault for not having trained him better. Obedience training is a must if you're going to go out with your doggy socially.

[Rose76]

I think the dog is an excellent idea. I had a dog who needed a great deal of exercise, so we were at parks all the time. That led to some really nice socializing for me. I found myself walking with other dog owners at this really big park near me. And my dog found a great friend two. The 4 of us would walk together. She was a medium size dog - 45 pounds. That size dog lends to getting you out of the house. Also, it's a big enough dog to protect itself and you. Small dogs definitely have their advantages, but they are easier to steal. With a small dog, you become the protector.

If you've never owned a dog before who was all your own, you are in four quite an experience. I got so I used to look forward to my boyfriend going out of town, so I could be alone with my dog.