[Shadix]

I am sick of people perpetuating this delusion that society is equally kind and accepting to everyone and that if a person isn't able to get socially integrated it is their own fault for "not trying hard enough" or something like that. That's easy for you to say if you are one of the people who is naturally liked by others, because all you have to do is be friendly and you will get accepted. But there are many of us who people for whatever reason just tend to be annoyed by us. When we try to be friendly, people will often react in a rude disparaging manner. In my opinion, somebody who is constantly rejected and disparaged by other yet continues to be social and outgoing likely has some sociopathic tendencies. A normal person will NATURALLY become withdrawn. So who's fault is it? The person who does what ANY NORMAL HUMAN BEING would do in thsir position or the people who put them in that position in the first place?

[~Christina]

Life isn't fair.. Never was, never will be. You can't control anything but how you react to it. Just live it or become a hermit.

[brainhi]

It's your life to live as you choose. You only need to live by your standards. If someone does not befriend you for who you are... that's on them. I happen to be outgoing... and believe me, there are definitely those who get annoyed with me.

I know a lot of people... I have 3 real friends and these I people have known me for a long time.

Plus, I have people in my life for different reasons. I do not like certain traits and other traits I like... I avoid the situations that I do not want to be in... does not mean I will let that person go. We do have some mutual values and that's ok.

Do you have anyone in your life who can give you honest feedback on how you actually come across to people? You see, I always thought I was pretty friendly, but come to find out, I come across as aloof and cold. And I'm VERY difficult to approach. People may be reacting to how you're actually coming across, even if you don't mean it that way.

[ManOfConstantSorrow]

people perpetuating this delusion that society is equally kind and accepting to everyone - who exactly says this (with a straight face)?

[Fuzzybear]

[A Red Panda]

The world accepting and kind??? We wouldn't have war, or racism, or homo/transphobia etc. Definitely isn't that way.

I'm not sure it's that people are blamed - not the way that you're describing it, although I can see how it would feel that way.

But unfortunately - the only person who can "fix" or change things... is the person who is unhappy with their situation. Because they're the only person who is with them 100% of the time. Does that mean it's their fault? No, not necessarily. Sometimes - like, if someone acts like a jerk, or super self-centred or bossy or things like that, then yeah they could be the cause of their own misery (and almost always without knowing it and blaming others) but other people are shy or quiet, unassertive, and then get missed.

But no one else can change things for that person. And it isn't someone else's job.

Does it seem like a catch-22? Yep. That it does.

The only thing that can really be said.... is to keep trying, and to keep trying new things.

I was shy, quiet, and withdrawn as a child. I was very unhappy and lonely, with a low self-esteem. I still have a lot of that, but I taught myself some people skills which made it easier (and whenever it was that hypomania would have set in for the first time I'm sure helped me out a lot!).

I don't see a point in trying to blame people. How does it help to blame others? How does it help to blame yourself? No one is really doing anything wrong. No one is obligated to like us, or to go the extra mile to overcompensate for someone else's withdrawal. That said, we aren't obligated to go above and beyond to try to get others to accept and like us. If you are happy with who and how you are, then stay that way and people who don't get to know you miss out. If you aren't happy, then learn some new skills and don't quit if you run into bumps along the way.

Personally, I don't have an ounce of empathy for the "normal" people who make up the vast majority of modern society. Those who have to follow every trend, follow the rules without question, are quick to judge and hurt those who aren't like them (eg those with mental illnesses), cannot think for themselves or have an open mind, and have to mindlessly believe everything they're told.

"Normies" as I call them are subhuman in my mind and don't deserve an ounce of compassion or empathy from people like us unless they put in the effort to change on their end.

The best advice I can give you? Don't try to change to fit in. Stand out and attract like minded people. Befriend these people and cherish them more than gold. Life will be more lonely but ultimately you will be happier in the long run.

It's ultimately more rewarding to be loved and accepted by a small tight knit group of like minded friends that you can be yourself around without fear of judgement versus a large amount of "friends" that you have to constantly wear a mask and hide things about yourself from out of fear of being judged or outcast.

[A Red Panda]

Originally Posted by DarknessIsMyFriend

"Normies" as I call them are subhuman in my mind and don't deserve an ounce of compassion or empathy from people like us unless they put in the effort to change on their end.

Whoa. Try replacing the word "Normies" with other words such as "black people" "women" or "homosexuals" or any other group of people.

Can you see how horrific that statement is?

[divine1966]

So people with no mental illnesses or so called "normal" are just rule followers and can't think for themselves and don't deserve compassion? Yeah. And I thought I saw everything on PC

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Originally Posted by A Red Panda

Whoa. Try replacing the word "Normies" with other words such as "black people" "women" or "homosexuals" or any other group of people.

Can you see how horrific that statement is?

Society hurts so many people with mental illnesses or who are simply different or think for themselves so I should care why?

If it wasn't for the constant abuse, neglect, and rejection. If it wasn't for being denied love and help when I needed it the most, I wouldn't think or feel that way.

Society makes so many people like us into what we are today and it's ultimately their fault. Why should I apologize for what I am? Nobody has apologized for making me this way.

Does that mean that I go around needlessly hurting "normies"? No. I'm too good for that.

I'm sorry if I have offended you or anybody else in this thread but I was merely stating my opinion. I'm manic as heck and I often say or do stupid things when I'm like this so I'm going to go back off for the night and play video games. Best of wishes to you all

[Georgia Bridge]

I've been reading this thread... and then reading it again and so on. So I'm reading it, right? And I'm wondering, "Why am I having these bouts of anxiety ?" Several things have come to mind... but the most important one is that it's causing me to look at my own judgmentalness... which is, needless to say, uncomfortable... but it's necessary to see it and face it in order to change it (not that I haven't seen it before). And in order to change it I have to want to change it. Experiences of the past have taught me that by improving my attitude both the quality of and the perception of life improve.

Originally Posted by divine1966

So people with no mental illnesses or so called "normal" are just rule followers and can't think for themselves and don't deserve compassion? Yeah. And I thought I saw everything on PC

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Not everybody who doesn't have a mental illness is a "normie" in my eyes. Only those who have to shun and outcast those who are or need to be an all around terrible person to those who are different which seems to be the overwhelming majority.

Anyways, I'm without a doubt addicted to the internet and caffeine so I need to back off. If I log back on tonight you guys can feel free to give me a virtual smack across the head

[Shadix]

Originally Posted by DarknessIsMyFriend

Society hurts so many people with mental illnesses or who are simply different or think for themselves so I should care why?

If it wasn't for the constant abuse, neglect, and rejection. If it wasn't for being denied love and help when I needed it the most, I wouldn't think or feel that way.

Society makes so many people like us into what we are today and it's ultimately their fault. Why should I apologize for what I am? Nobody has apologized for making me this way.

Does that mean that I go around needlessly hurting "normies"? No. I'm too good for that.

I'm sorry if I have offended you or anybody else in this thread but I was merely stating my opinion. I'm manic as heck and I often say or do stupid things when I'm like this so I'm going to go back off for the night and play video games. Best of wishes to you all

I don't really agree with your painting "normal people" with a broad brush, but this post REALLY resonates with me. Pretty much exactly how I find myself feeling. I was bullied and rejected for years and deprived of most of the great social experiences people get to have in their youth. I absolutely refuse to sit around pretending I've been treated fairly. And yes it is society's fault that I am angry and bitter. So people really have no business judging me for it. They would be the same way if they were in my position. It makes absolutely no sense to judge me by the same standards as everyone else. In particular I can't stand how people want to judge me for being "immature" and acting young for my age. Uhhh YEAH maybe if I was given the chance when I was younger I wouldnt be like this!

[Shadix]

Originally Posted by DarknessIsMyFriend

Society makes so many people like us into what we are today and it's ultimately their fault. Why should I apologize for what I am? Nobody has apologized for making me this way.

THIS. Society has never apologized to me for putting me through misery and depriving me of happiness, yet I am still expected to be sorry for not complying with the arbitrary standards of the majority. This makes my blood boil.

[divine1966]

Originally Posted by DarknessIsMyFriend

Not everybody who doesn't have a mental illness is a "normie" in my eyes. Only those who have to shun and outcast those who are or need to be an all around terrible person to those who are different which seems to be the overwhelming majority.

Anyways, I'm without a doubt addicted to the internet and caffeine so I need to back off. If I log back on tonight you guys can feel free to give me a virtual smack across the head

Well there are horrible people in all walks of life. With mental illness or without. But I tend to believe and observe that vast majority of people are nice and kind and don't mistreat or shun others for any reason let alone because they are different.

Most people are too busy with their own struggles. Just because people appear ok it doesn't mean they don't deal with something.

Reception and attitude is half the deal here

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[A Red Panda]

Originally Posted by DarknessIsMyFriend

Society hurts so many people with mental illnesses or who are simply different or think for themselves so I should care why?

If it wasn't for the constant abuse, neglect, and rejection. If it wasn't for being denied love and help when I needed it the most, I wouldn't think or feel that way.

Society makes so many people like us into what we are today and it's ultimately their fault. Why should I apologize for what I am? Nobody has apologized for making me this way.

Does that mean that I go around needlessly hurting "normies"? No. I'm too good for that.

I'm sorry if I have offended you or anybody else in this thread but I was merely stating my opinion. I'm manic as heck and I often say or do stupid things when I'm like this so I'm going to go back off for the night and play video games. Best of wishes to you all

I do in fact find hate speech to be offensive. It doesn't matter who the hate speech is directed at. Aiming your hate at a group of people is never, in any way, helpful. Judging an entire group based on a subsection within that group or just your own experiences.... that's never, in any way, helpful.

Blaming and focusing on "X made me this way" is also, never, in any way, helpful. Continuing to make more labels and focusing on those labels.... that's also, never, in any way, helpful.

You are making things to be too much as a "normies" vs "mentally ill"... which is terrible. It isn't true. Sure, hate the people who've treated you poorly if you want to. But that doesn't mean an entire group. You have horrible abusive people who don't have mental illness, and you have horrible abusive people with mental illness. You have people without mental illness who spread stereotypes about mental illness.... and you have people with mental illness who spread stereotypes about mental illness. You have people without mental illness who are kind, accepting, people, and you have people with mental illness who are kind, accepting people. I could go on for infinity.

Trying to segregate..... never works out well.

And you weren't saying that you hate Society. You were saying awful things about "normies" which means people who do not have mental illness. Guess what? If I didn't tell you, you wouldn't know that I had a mental illness. If I met you in person, you would consider me a "normie". There are plenty of people who you think fit into the "normie" category who don't.

Originally Posted by A Red Panda

I do in fact find hate speech to be offensive. It doesn't matter who the hate speech is directed at. Aiming your hate at a group of people is never, in any way, helpful. Judging an entire group based on a subsection within that group or just your own experiences.... that's never, in any way, helpful.

Blaming and focusing on "X made me this way" is also, never, in any way, helpful. Continuing to make more labels and focusing on those labels.... that's also, never, in any way, helpful.

You are making things to be too much as a "normies" vs "mentally ill"... which is terrible. It isn't true. Sure, hate the people who've treated you poorly if you want to. But that doesn't mean an entire group. You have horrible abusive people who don't have mental illness, and you have horrible abusive people with mental illness. You have people without mental illness who spread stereotypes about mental illness.... and you have people with mental illness who spread stereotypes about mental illness. You have people without mental illness who are kind, accepting, people, and you have people with mental illness who are kind, accepting people. I could go on for infinity.

Trying to segregate..... never works out well.

And you weren't saying that you hate Society. You were saying awful things about "normies" which means people who do not have mental illness. Guess what? If I didn't tell you, you wouldn't know that I had a mental illness. If I met you in person, you would consider me a "normie". There are plenty of people who you think fit into the "normie" category who don't.

Sorry, my mask slipped there haha. I hold in a great deal of hatred, pain, and resentment that I masterfully conceal from the world most of the time. It doesn't help that most of my friends think similarly to myself including a lady friend that I'm trying to form a relationship with so I'm surrounded by this type of energy regularly.

I said in an above post that I don't think this way about everybody without mental illness, only those who mistreat people who do.

You're probably right, I should stop with the labels and I should learn to love and accept more and hate less, but I prefer to take the easy way out because I don't see a benefit in changing. As far as I'm concerned, if I change, I'm putting a large amount of work in for little return on my energy and time investment.

Nobody is ever going to come to my rescue and show me any genuine compassion without wanting something in return or concealing some kind of hidden motive, therefore, I must be hyper vigilant and do what I must to survive and thrive.

Sorry I offended you man, I really am. I'm not used to it because most of the people that I socialize with regularly about my personal thoughts think similar to me.

Originally Posted by divine1966

Well there are horrible people in all walks of life. With mental illness or without. But I tend to believe and observe that vast majority of people are nice and kind and don't mistreat or shun others for any reason let alone because they are different.

Most people are too busy with their own struggles. Just because people appear ok it doesn't mean they don't deal with something.

Reception and attitude is half the deal here

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You have had a lot better luck with people than me then. Out of all of the hundreds or thousands of people that I've dealt with in my life, I can say only 10-15 showed me any genuine compassion and out of those 10-15, only a few were selfless about it.

I'm only like this because of how many people have used and hurt me and only to protect myself. I'm nothing more than a product of my experiences in life.

[PsychAL]

Originally Posted by Shadix

I am sick of people perpetuating this delusion that society is equally kind and accepting to everyone and that if a person isn't able to get socially integrated it is their own fault for "not trying hard enough" or something like that. That's easy for you to say if you are one of the people who is naturally liked by others, because all you have to do is be friendly and you will get accepted. But there are many of us who people for whatever reason just tend to be annoyed by us. When we try to be friendly, people will often react in a rude disparaging manner. In my opinion, somebody who is constantly rejected and disparaged by other yet continues to be social and outgoing likely has some sociopathic tendencies. A normal person will NATURALLY become withdrawn. So who's fault is it? The person who does what ANY NORMAL HUMAN BEING would do in thsir position or the people who put them in that position in the first place?

That is very true, in my case. I have been living the life of a loner, being secluded and only going out when absolutely necessary or when fulfilling my job descriptions. I also maintain quite a few friends, but they are mainly on Facebook, though I know them personally. I still try my best to be friendly to my FB friends, even if they don't care about me personally. I had another FB account and a lot of friends, but in the end I deleted that account and stuck with just one. Yes, I have this kind of a loner personality, be it in real life or online. Even with some friends I made in school, I have chosen to drift away from them for reasons of my own. Now, I have little or no contact with any of them.

As for this single FB account with just a single friend, it's a test for me to be more sociable. As I really like this person, I have to slowly change my loner personality by trying to be open to and interacting with her. I don't expect her to reciprocate, but at least I am showing my social side. As Georgia Bridge put it well, "And in order to change it I have to want to change it." Being more sociable, at least on FB, is just a first step for me.

[A Red Panda]

I actually find it easier to not spend my time hating all the things in my past. I find it hardest when I have to think about my own past, because anger is exhausting!

I tend to take the "live and let live" approach.... Like... overall I think that people are good (Society in general.... no not really, but individuals I think are generally good), although I definitely have trust issues.

I've found it easier to form friendships and relationships when I spent less time stuck in my past. I started to change things for my own mental health... and then started to find out surprise bonuses - I was able to let people in easier (not very far mind, but still) and I was able to start showing people who I am as a person. I'm still quite hypervigilant towards any "changes" that happen, but I'm cautiously optimistic that the people I try to know are generally good people. Even though I still sometimes get hurt...... I'd have zero chance of ever having something positive if I didn't let anyone in, ever.

[~Christina]

Shadix.... Since Therapy hasn't/ isn't helpful for you in this aspect of your life....

Maybe you could consider getting a "life coach" Numerous people around PC over the years had benefitted greatly from having one he/she can help you figure out how to go about things in regards to your struggles..

Just a thought.

[A Red Panda]

Originally Posted by Shadix

THIS. Society has never apologized to me for putting me through misery and depriving me of happiness, yet I am still expected to be sorry for not complying with the arbitrary standards of the majority. This makes my blood boil.

I don't think anyone really thinks that people have to apologize for who they are. Well, unless they're sexist/racist/homophobic or something - then they should be apologizing for that!

No one says that you HAVE to conform with the standards. But if you want the things that are standard, then you sorta have to learn to work with the system. If you didn't want the "standard" stuff, you'd be a lot happier.

No one has ever apologized to me either - nor anyone else I know. And yes - I DID learn to conform. But you know what? I wasn't happy with who I was or what my life was like. So I made the changes that I wanted to, and didn't change the things I didn't want to. I'm a lot happier with who I am, because I can achieve the things I want.

Just... expecting or wanting the world to apologize? You will always be miserable, because that will never happen.

[Shadix]

Originally Posted by ~Christina

Shadix.... Since Therapy hasn't/ isn't helpful for you in this aspect of your life....

Maybe you could consider getting a "life coach" Numerous people around PC over the years had benefitted greatly from having one he/she can help you figure out how to go about things in regards to your struggles..

Just a thought.

I would actually think about that. However I can't help but feel like there is also a psychological aspect to my problems, so I don't know if I should quit on therapy just yet.

[Shadix]

Originally Posted by A Red Panda

I don't think anyone really thinks that people have to apologize for who they are. Well, unless they're sexist/racist/homophobic or something - then they should be apologizing for that!

There are plenty of things other than racism, sexism and homophobia that society sees as wrong. There are all sorts of do's and don'ts that we are expected to follow. I think it's ridiculous and stupid that people are expected to follow these rules, but it is 100 times more ridiculous and stupid that I would be expected to. Personally, I think that in a way I would be justified in pursuing my happiness even if it harmed others. Others deprived me of happiness, so why am I not justified in raining on their parade in order to pursue that happiness? Wouldn't it be perfectly fair?