Am I pretty much doomed?

Well I don't think it's creepy to only talk to girls because one likes how they look. But it is rather immature and would come across shallow. I am a good looking woman and I find it annoying if men only wanted to talk to me because they found me sexually attractive. There is more to a woman than looks.

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Shadix, I've been approached by random men lots of times. It is the approach that determines creepiness. I will give you some examples: all of them took place while I was travelling in Turkey.

I had a tour guide invite me home with him while I was in the middle of no where and had not even had a conversation with him. That was creepy.

I had a waiter invite me to play backgammon while I ate. I played two games with him. He invited me to come back to the restaurant that evening for a party. I declined. I did not find him creepy.

I had someone bothering me while I was going about Istanbul. He gave me a weird vibe (forget why it was years ago) so I said I was meeting up with friends. He saw me later that day and called me out on it - which creeped me out. Istanbul is a huge city so that was just not so fun for me!

Had another tour guide when I wasn't in Istanbul (was in a smaller village) who I ran into a lot. Chatted with him a bunch. I was already used to the more blunt approaches taken by men in Turkey, (I stood out a lot being a single female traveller... And I'm very pale). So I totally missed that he was interested in more than just casual friendship (he used to live in Australia so I was less on guard due to his friend-approach. I went on a dirt bike tour just him and I. I clued in while on that.... He invited me to stay the night with him - I declined as I was taking a night bus that evening to go to Istanbul. He tried to convince me to stay anyway, but I declined. If his timing was better I might not have turned him down. I did not find him creepy (or I wouldn't have gone on his dirtbike with him!

It's all in how it is approached. You'll notice the men I did not find creepy were interested in conversation, and they did not interact with me randomly.

This is a figment of your imagination unless you are living in a society that veils its women. And yes, you are 'doomed' as you put it, as long as your continue circling around the same self-defeating nonsense. A competent therapist could help you sort out your feelings about sexuality and help you develop socially acceptable communicative skills.

Well, that's the problem. I am typically not typically interested in a conversation, I am interested in the girl. I am likely somewhere on the autism spectrum and I am not naturally social. So like I was saying, this stigma against approaching girls without a "valid excuse" pretty much bars guys like me from getting the chance to meet girls we like.

I'm throwing my 2 cents in late in the thread, but here's how I see your situation:

You were not comfortable with yourself through high school and college, felt like you didn't have the looks/image that girls desires, felt out cast.

Now you've come into yourself, got your looks going for you, got in shape, and feel ready to be with women. You want to feel validated now. You want those attractive girls to want you. Your self-esteem longs for this, and I completely see how understandable this is.

You want to sow your oats. You want to date attractive 'hotties'. Of course, you have no experience, you have emotional scars from your youth, and you are scared of rejection.

My advice is just try to relax and go with it. Don't tell anyone you are just interested in sex. Show the best of yourself. You say you want to impress the girls. So, impress them. How can you do that? Have some fun. You deserve that.

In time, you will be ready for a meaningful relationship and it will happen naturally. For now, part of your motivation is you are trying to repair the scars of your younger self.

Well, it isn't always just looks, often times personality comes into play too. The girl at the gym for example, I didn't find her looks that appealing at first, although the she is pretty cute. It was mainly her extremely friendly and polite nature that made me more attracted to her. However guess what? This still falls under creepy objectification according to modern feminist thinking. We are basically expected to ONLY be interested in girls we have already connected with on a personal level.

So logically how do you suppose you're going to end up in bed with one if conversation is too much effort and doesn't even interest you?


"Hi I'm Shadix,and you are?....

Pleased to meet you, will you have sex with me?"



You're digging your sexless hole deeper and deeper with a shovel made of self-defeatest talks, false beliefs and refusal to even try the basics.


Nike, Just do it...


What have you got to lose?


It's not like you can become more of a virgin.

If you think you have ASD then time to get evaluated. Make an appointment with the psychiatrist.

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Being attracted to girls polite and friendly nature isn't creepy. Not sure where you get that from.

I connected with someone online have never even met lol I didn't think it was creepy.

What creepy though is only wanting infatuation and sexual attraction and not even wanting a conversation. What would you be doing with girls if not talking? Jumping to bed? I am confused.

Also what do you care about feminists and what they think? I am a woman and can't care less. Yet you are 28 year old male and worry about what modern feminists think of this or that. What do you care?

I did not mean I am not interested in having conversations with these girls. What I meant was that I am not really interested in the kind of smalltalk that you make with strangers. I am introverted. The reason I want to talk to girls is because I am attracted to them, not because I want to make smalltalk. If I were to have a conversation based on what I am actually interested in talking to them about it would be something like "Hi what's your name? How old are you? Do you have a boyfriend? What kind of guys do you like? What are your hobbies?" But this kind of approaching is not acceptable. Guys are supposed to instead make jokes or talk about the weather. I am not good at that kind of talk. Do you understand what I mean now?

Oh and when I do try to make smalltalk, I usually end up saying something dumb and embarrassing myself. For example this girl at the gym, I hadn't seen her for a while because she had quit the recently come back, so I said "You quit for a while right?" Then when she said yes I said "because I used to see you at the front desk pretty much every day." Well first off I didn't used to see her that often so that's stupid of me to say, and also why do I need to say that I used to see her every day? She obviously knows that. The reason I am saying these stupid things is because I am saying what I think I should be saying and not what I naturally want to say.

It makes no difference if I'm attracted to her looks or her personality, all that matters is that I barely know her and I am attracted to her. For some reason, many girls these days think that is creepy unless they happen to feel the same way about the guy. To come to think of it, girls usually think it's creepy when they know the guy as well. So basically it is only ok if they have a thing for him. Apparently this is supposed to be the age where guys just wait for the girls to show interest in them and otherwise never show interest in any girl. Society expects me to just be a good boy and choose one of the girls who showed interest in me, instead of pursuing the ones I actually like.

You've completely misread me. Those men were NOT just interested in talking to me. They were interested in ME.

But they approached me with conversation and were in situations where it wasn't them just walking up to me in a coffee shop. One was my waiter and I was very clearly a traveller. The other worked at a tour company and I was clearly a tourist. They showed an interest in ME and not just their dicks.

And ffs you need to stop blaming society. There are just as many pressures on women as there are men! They all suck. You're not special in having challenges. The only thing that is stopping you is you. Not society.

The girl at the gym - you've interacted with her repeatedly. It's not like you are walking up to her from nowhere. She knows your face, she knows you attend the gym regularly. She waves or greets you.

People get to know each other somehow. It's really all in HOW you interact.

Which basically, you don't do. You don't interact. So of course you get no where.

It really sounds like you should just join a site like okcupid. You're not interested in conversation and you don't want a serious relationship. Basically you want a sex buddy. Best bet for that is on a dating site.

No I really don't understand what you are talking about. I have never heard guys are supposed to do small talk. Weather? Make jokes? I don't like small talk and there is not much to say about weather ( unless of course you have something crazy going on like we had snow in April) Sure if someone is really funny they can make jokes but it's not required. First time I and my now fiancée talked to each other was about our careers. Not because it's something to say but because that what interests us. What interests you? There really are no rules what to talk about. And sure if worse comes worse bring up the weather. Who made the rules

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Society doesn't expect anything from you because frankly society doesn't care. There is no collective society that care who you date and what you do. You can do whatever you want as long as you don't break the law.

You are free to pursue the ones you like, for example ask out the ones at your gym. Or take a class. But you aren't doing it. It's not society's problem. If you have social anxiety then see if you can learn some skills in therapy. But society is not to blame.

How do you know what girls nowadays think or want as you don't talk to them and aren't interested in conversation with them and really don't know any of them. Get to know them

Hey easy it got to be a hookup type of site! I've met my fiancée online on eharmony and we are obviously not sex buddies. Lol lol lol

I know what you are saying though. If one has specific desires ( either serious or hook up) one can look for it through specific sites online or through other venues in real life. But you do have to act accordingly to your goals, if you just want sex or physical stuff then it's not society's fall. It is ones preference! Society does not care if you want to properly date or screw or marry etc it's your personal choice

You know, I'm not going to disagree with anything that you've said. I understand completely but I do have some things to add that might, hopefully ease your mind. Every guy, or girl for that matter, that wants to approach someone that is attractive to them has a bit of awkwardness. there is far more of that going around than you think. It is natural. The element of attraction complicates things. It is not that approaching an potential mate is any different than approaching another stranger of either sex but our minds (I think almost all of us outside of players that do this as a conquest) go blank when there is that risk, that stake in the conversation. When you go up to a stranger and make small talk (and mind you I realize even that is somewhat rare for me), there are no high stakes, I'm just making conversation that may or may not have any kind of weight to it. but we judge our every move (self critics are the worst) we make, by that risk and/or potential. "will it make her like me, will I look stupid" etc. That is a normal thing, just sometimes a bit more heightened in those that are not fluent or practiced in conversation - ie, introverted, shy and reserved people.

everything you say to anyone is on some level, "manufactured" unless you're asking for something that has a purpose such as 'pass the salt' everything else is manufactured or just thrown out there without seemingly a purpose. May I suggest this idea though? It is not fake, it is not, unless, you're making something up that is a complete lie. It may be just random small talk that seems unimportant at the time but something needs to be said to break the ice and get some words moving. There are no rules against that - only rules and restrictions you place on yourself in your own mind. Not claiming its easy but you have to stop doing that.

First, forget the feminists. They are clearly not the target of your interest and have no power over the individuals in question unless, they themselves are feminists also. Feminists, or any other societal group has influence over the grand scheme of things but individually have no power over your thoughts or actions or anyone else's for that matter. Unless there is a law, regulation or other legal restriction on your actions, there isn't anyone standing behind you wagging a finger if you say the wrong thing, make the wrong move, or approach a woman that this imaginary person doesn't see as fitting. Free yourself from this restricting thinking that society itself has anything to do with your personal actions and choices.

Are there conversations going on between groups, on forums, the web, radio and tv about how things "should be" ? Are there groups of women calling out who they think is creepy and why? Sure. But who cares. There are also groups of Christians (myself being one btw so I'm not judging) that are talking about the morals of society and about individuals and what should be. Do you allow the moral values of Christian groups influence whether you do one thing or another, that is, if you're NOT a Christian? If you're not a Christian yourself, you likely don't let their beliefs, actions and conversations affect you. That, my friend, is part of society too. Society itself has many differing views and sets of regulations or morals, etc. you globalize this so called society thing as if there is a singular view on how males "today" should be, how women should be etc. but I'm telling you it depends on which group you're paying attention to. For that reason, I say, make your OWN decision, do what you feel is right and good and you'll be fine. Forget the societal stereotypical idealogy.

Just a request.... But can we not use "feminist" when you are talking about "misandrists". Feminism stands for equality between the sexes - it implies females because females are the gender which is at a disadvantage (and yes the gap is being closed slowly which is great, but when the term was first forming women weren't even allowed to vote).

The women that shadix is talking about as misandrists- the female version of a misogynist. They will be found on various feminist sites but they are not representative of feminism. Just as the kkk are Christian, but they do not represent Christians. They are just an extreme hateful group that touts that flag.

I'm not sure if you were responding to me or not but if so, my comment mentioning feminist was simply using the supposed named group generically. as in, forget [name any group] as a whole... could have been replaced with any such name and I hope I didn't seem to make and judgments of feminism itself, even if I have an opinion of that group it is irrelevant here. Just thought I'd clarify that.

I don't even know why would one read on feminist sites or other sites that clearly don't represent the person's view? I think one can read anything for a research purpose or fun but not if it effects ones life negatively. If reading on those sites influences how you feel to the extent that you refuse to date then stop reading on those sites

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Sales 101 should be required teaching in public schools.

Also beggars can't be choosers. IE, either you do the choosing or you're always going to be "settling" out of whatever comes you way.

So why sales? Because if you did have sales 101 then talking to girls would be very easy for you. Salesmen are masters of small talk, not to mention subtle emotional manipulation, which, let's face it, is 99% of what the dating game is all about. Sure you can BS on about how it's all in finding who is right for you, but you can't know that from a 10 minute conversation now can you? Which is odd because most of the big stuff usually happens within those first 10 orso minutes.

Maybe a little exercise to help you. Instead of trying to sell her 'you', try selling her something else instead. It's easier to detach from emotionally, and so it should be easier to stay on top of the conversation without getting to emotionally invested. Hell you might even make a buck while you're at it!

Try not to do it at the gym though, they might not like you selling random crap at the gym.

You say you suspect you are on the autism spectrum. As someone with asperger's, I can relate to your sense of hopelessness and not knowing how to approach women and strangers in general. A few years ago I started my own business, and suddenly being introverted just wasn't going to cut it anymore. I needed to be able to make real connections with clients, suppliers, others in the industry, potential partners (especially as I started to expand and branch out). And that was just initially; these days there's also the firm that handles my advertizing, my accountant, reporters and radio deejays for interviews… just an unbelievable amount of business contacts. And that's not even getting into when I was running for State Representative, and all the socializing I had to do for that.
Here's what I did to overcome my introversion (even before I knew I was on the spectrum):

I spent a long time studying people, just watching them. At airports, at work, at concerts, in grocery stores and parks and clubs; wherever I was, I watched people and how they interact. I read books on body language and nonverbal communication. I practiced these things in front of a mirror then in my day-to-day interactions with teachers, coworkers, etc. And I noticed tremendous improvement in how long my typical conversations with people would last. Things went from being just an exchange of only necessary information to actual social niceties. People even began to ask me how my weekend had been, comment on a new shirt, things of that nature, which had never happened before.

I also practiced making and maintaining eye contact, which is a big part of nonverbal communication, but something I think of as almost entirely a category of its own because of how difficult this was for me initially. It was oddly easier for me to practice this with strangers than people I already knew. I would make and try to hold eye contact with waitresses when they were telling me about the daily specials, cashiers when they were handing me my change. I would try to make eye contact with people I passed walking down the street, and surprisingly, many of them smiled at me in return.

But these were all just superficial interactions. Where it really started to come together for me was when all my people-watching led to an 'aha' moment, and I started to think of myself as an actor of sorts. I realized that we all, consciously or not, spend the first part of our day, before we've even walked out the door, putting together the persona we are going to show to the world. You leave for work and perform your role there; you maybe meet some friends for lunch or drinks and perform an entirely different role; then you come home to yet another role. All our interactions are parts we play, little vignettes that comprise a play called life. Shakespeare had it right all along.

See, it was difficult for me to initiate and navigate conversations, but if I thought about it as a role I was playing, it suddenly became much easier. So I became a salesman, a businessman and a tradesman. I play these roles fairly well now.

But there is more to life than just business and work. About a year ago I started making a point of paying a complete stranger a heartfelt compliment each day. If I had to recommend just one thing, it would be to develop this habit yourself. There is no risk involved, because they are strangers. Compliment someone's taste in music (if it's playing where you can hear it), an item of clothing, a cashier's friendly smile. Take it a step further and ask for a small favor. Turn to a guy at the gym and say "Hey, bud. Mind spotting my next set? I feel like going heavy."

Yes, a guy. Notice how when I said to pay a stranger a compliment, I didn't specify women? That's because learning how to initiate conversations with women is exactly the same as learning how to initiate conversations with human beings. Take gender, sex, and attraction out of the equation. This will take some of the pressure off so you can build the skills and the confidence you need when you do decide to approach a woman you find attractive. And, trust me, she will definitely appreciate being approached as a human being rather than as a 'hot girl'.

Every so-called expert that talks about this says you should practice. And when I look at other 'skills', indeed you need to practice. It is sound advice.

But like you, I can't imagine going on a date with some girl just to practice dating skills for when that one women that you really want shows up.
I have a flair of schizoidism for sure and it takes me a long time to warm up to strangers.

It also feels like a betrayal to yourself, when you aren't gregarious and you feel forced to go out there and become more gregarious. Why does society reward gregariousness so much? Is it fair? No. Then why accept it?

It is hard when you are stubborn and sensitive.

To the OP, I don't know if your analysis of society and the game of dating is correct. Doesn't sound right to me.
Males just wait for girls to show interest and then you pick one? Are you sure?


Women are creeped out by men who are strangers. It was difficult for me to understand, and more importantly, feel, that women can and must be cautious around stranger men.

If you meet a new person, you need to talk about light subjects first. You don't immediately discuss politics, their life goals, the meaning of life, or whatever. Small talk is about not being strangers.
I used to hate small talk as well. But it is only natural and understandable you talk about small, simple, lighthearted things first. Then about meaningful things second. You can't meet someone for the first time, then rant about your hobby for 15 minutes. Or ask them if they want children or not and about how they view parenthood.

In the end, look at animals. Look at how a male bird attracts and seduces a female bird. Humans are animals. It is hard to accept and embrace that idea, especially if you are logical/rational. Deep inside us, maybe hidden under a lot of restraint, there is the instinct of the human mating ritual. That's what biology gave us to attract mates.
It is hard. Hard to use and hard to accept. First step is to stop denying. Took me 10 years only to stop denying it.

I thought I could give my two-cents here, since my relationship is non-standard. Despite what I've said on these forums, I actually am a very attractive lady. I'm sorry for bragging, I personally don't put much thought in looks since I find them to have very little value (I know this isn't true for most). Some have called me "scary pretty." I've heard it a hundred times, and I know for a fact that most people aren't only looking for someone attractive. I've been told that because I'm "beautiful," I could date whoever I wanted. Not true at all. Famous people only date famous people. People tend to date within their field. It does have to do a lot with chemistry and being in a similar place in life. So I definitely don't date whoever I want. There are a lot of guys who flat out aren't interested in being around me. I should note I'm also very introverted, and don't have many friends.

I've had a good deal of guys approach me, and how their approach was and how they interacted with me helped shaped my picture of them, but it had a lot to do with how I perceived them. Some guys who were older and liked looking over my body a lot made me feel creeped out. Guys who were friendly and calm and asked me about myself made me shy, but not uncomfortable. I usually only felt creeped out by age if they're noticeably much older than me. I've had guys come up out of nowhere and start talking to me, and somehow I knew very quickly that they were interested in me and trying to get to know me. For me personally, this doesn't work with me, but it doesn't mean I'm not flattered. I still try to have a good conversation, unless I'm getting bad vibes. For example, if I'm not too interested in talking, I get bad vibes when a guy I don't know keeps pushing for conversation in a forceful way. Usually I'll be more quiet and not reply a lot to show I'm not in the mood for talking, usually because I'm busy. It's rarely because a guy just flat out gives me bad vibes from the start. I'm sure just walking up to a girl who you don't know does for some girls, since once you get to know each other, she might hand you her number, for example, in order to discuss what you two were talking about before, or to join up with you for doing a hobby you two have a shared interest in or something. Especially if she's interested in you. I'm the type who usually would like a conversation with a guy once I know him a little bit, for example, maybe I see him around once and a while. If I liked a guy and he came up and approached me to talk, I'd be very happy, but how the conversation would pan out is based on how our chemistry was, you know? If we both had nothing to say, maybe it just wouldn't work out, or maybe we'd have to try again later.

I met my boyfriend in one of my classes. I think he's attractive, but he isn't a model by any means, you know? I find him so attractive because I like his personality. He was also very shy and nervous, and I found myself having to keep the conversation going, and thankfully we had a lot in common and good chemistry. Funny enough, he said he liked me because I seemed to know who I was and where I was going. Most guys just say it's because of how attractive I am, but hey, that's not necessarily bad, either. I think I just liked a guy who liked me as a person, but that might be just me and because I wanted something different than what was usually offered. We ended up changing opinions of what we knew of each other later, but not in a bad way. We just learned more about each other, and we still liked each other.

I actually approached him first! I asked to talk to him about an interest we both had, basically, and he was always receptive. I tried pushing boundaries a bit, asking about his other interests, and he'd ask me about myself, too. Eventually he asked me out, but I was already planning to ask him out.

So, maybe because of this, I don't think being in the same perceived "bracket" of dating actually always applies. I've met a lot of guys with incredible girls who are both beautiful, intelligent, and kind, even if the guys seemed pretty normal.

I work with a lot of girls. A whole lot. I can give some pointers of what some of them like. Of course, everyone has different personalities. There's one girl who's very attractive and does a lot of dating. She'll date around, and she wouldn't say no to a guy who seems physically attractive (her choice) and compatible, but she's mainly focused on this one guy she's had a crush on for a long time. She gives him signs all the time that she likes him, so he's bound to know now. However, she's gregarious, so it's easy for her to let a guy know she likes him.

I know one girl who's dating a very attractive guy, although she doesn't fit into the "very attractive bracket." She's just normal looking. However, she dated him because they knew each other, and she and him had a lot in common.

One girl is pretty and dating an introvert. She's very talkative and has had a lot of dating experience. She seems to like his seriousness, but maybe that's what she likes at this time of her life.

A lot of the girls met someone they already knew for a while, and dating just worked out really well for them.

I think a whole lot literally depends on who you know. What girls you hang around a lot and etc.

Anyway, just my two cents. Please take with a grain of salt. I have barely any dating experience myself, but I'm like Melodysmooth who posted way back in this thread. I waited a whole lot of time, until my early twenties, to date.

Unfortunately, misandrists and those indoctrinated with misandrist ideas seem to make up a huge chunk of the online feminist community. And it is scary because many of their ideas are becoming accepted by the mainstream.

Here is an example. The other day I saw this post shared on facebook by a feminist author, which was basically a message to men telling them to not bug women who for example are at a bus stop and have their headphones in and obviously are not looking to be approached. Of course I agree with this. But many in the comments section were taking even further and suggesting men should not approach women PERIOD. And one exchange in particular made my blood boil. This one girl commented saying she thinks people are being too hard on men and not all of them are creeps. She suggested some guys maybe just want someone to talk to and that she would be glad to talk to a guy like that. The feminists on there basically ripped her apart. They accused her of "enabling rape culture" and things of the sort. And all because she advocated being nice to men. One commenter replied to her suggestion that a guy just wants someone to talk to with "then he should find a MALE to talk to". This mentality is so disgusting, it reminds me of religious extremists who think that men and women should not interact. Basically these people believe that it is perverted for men to be attracted to women they don't know. If this mentality becomes mainstream then guys like me are screwed in terms of dating.

Honestly shadix, from all the posts you've made on this site..... You are much more likely to be screwing your own chances of dating with your own belief systems. You are not being screwed over due to anyore else. It's all you.