[rxwillow]

Ok, this is going to be a little long so please bear with me. Ive been dating the most wonderful woman ever for the past 2 years. In the beginning of our relationship, I wasnt ready for a relationship (and she is a close friends sister which made it weird at the time). In the past, I was the person screwed over in all my relationships which is why I didnt know if I wanted to do it in the beginning. Needless to say, I did it and it was the best thing ever. I moved back to my hometown which she lived in and we had an amazing relationship for months. I would go see her and hang out with my friends and then sneak back into her house just to be with her some more. I was and still am crazy about her. I would call her after I left her house just to hear her voice until I was ready to go to sleep. Problems with her family came up and she was kicked out of her house. The only thing to do was to have her come live with me. She didnt have family in the area and she was finishing up highschool. I just wanted her to get through school and hopefully get a job that she liked. Since her parents no longer spoke with her, she wasnt able to go to college. I wanted to give that to her so bad but I couldnt and I understand that. I was only 18 or 19 at the time so it was a little awkward for me. I did the wrong things during this time and didnt stay with her every minute. She would come home from school and stay home. I would go to my friends house. I know I was wrong for doing this but at the time I didnt. She went through a lot of hard times during the time we were at my parents house. My stepfather ended up borrowing money from her and refused to pay it back pretty much. When she finally confronted my parents about this, my mother stuck up for my stepfather and he denied it. This caused an uncomfortable living situation. For months we looked to move out but it was too expensive. I later joined a band that at the time was great. Music is really important to me and I would love to do it for a living and she understood that. She would drive me to practice and hang out just to listen to us play and drive home with me. After a while, we all moved in together. The band, my girlfriend and 2 other people. Living was great for a while. We had the quiet we needed but my job ended up making me a giant ball of anger. My girlfriend worked there too for a while which was great and she later had to leave because of a hostile work environment that she didnt cause. The office is a high stress situation and the bosses are not concerned with the welfare of their employees. I continued to work there because without the job I wouldnt be able to afford rent and I was on the lease for the house with my girlfriend. The anger grew, and something changed in me. The changes as I said started, I guess when she moved in with me. I didnt notice any of these changes. I wish I had. We had fight after fight after fight and in the end I would apologize, say I understand and tell her that I would fix everything. I never did. For some reason I thought that it would just happen. I felt that if I didnt want the arguments to happen then they wouldnt, but they did. We had some good times in between the fights and I got worse. I stopped paying attention, I stopped asking her out places. I mean, we went to a few places, but not nearly enough. We never really spent much time together me and her. I dont know why I didnt notice any of it though. It just happened. Her birthday rolled around and I wanted to get her something that she really wanted. I ordered it for her and when it got here, it was a few days too soon. I couldnt pay for it yet and they wouldnt hold it. They had to send it back. I felt so terrible. She told me over and over that she doesnt care about her birthday but I wanted to make it special for her with the little money that I had. I probably could have just done that by taking her for a walk even, but I was too blind to notice it. I woke up during the night and rolled over and kissed her and tried to think of something special to do for her birthday but I couldnt think of anything. When the alarm went off for work in the morning , as usual, I was angry because I had to go to work. She would drive me and the other people in the house to work because .... well ... just because. Shes a great person like that. I dont know how I let the anger of my job and hatred for my current situation cloud the fact that IT WAS MY GIRLFRIENDS BIRTHDAY! She has done so much for me and I couldnt even put my anger aside for her. I screwed that up big time and I dont know how to make it up. After that, there was calm, a fight , calm and then another fight. The fight that ended it. She had been trying to tell me how she felt for months. She tried to tell me how bad I made her feel. How I didnt listen to her. How whenever she would bring something to my attention, I would blow up and try to defend myself. I wasnt like this before. I wasnt always like this. Something happened to me somewhere and I just dont know why it happened. In the end, she broke up with me. She said that she thinks it would be better if she left me. I dont know why, but I didnt think she was serious. I didnt think that it was really happening. I said the wrong things and it was over. I LET HER GO! I dont know why though! We didnt talk for a day or two. I started thinking to myself and I got a phonecall from my mom that had nothing to do with my relationship but somewhere during the phone call, I started thinking .... maybe its me. Maybe it really is me. Something that I never REALLY did before. I went for a loooong walk and started thinking about what is going on. I stepped outside of myself for a second to say "hey, what the hell are you doing?" I mean, I hate my job, my band (which I didnt really get into) was falling apart, my anger was getting out of control and I wasnt doing anything to keep my relationship together. I had lost the one person that I loved. We had promised each other in the beginning of our relationship that we would never say the word "love" because it just doesnt make sense to us. I didnt think I was ever really going to know what love is but when I think about anyone else I get sick. I dont want anyone else. I want her. I want to make her happy. I want to be able to give her the best life that she could have. I thought about all of the things shes done for me. We had plans to move to california together and start a new life together. She had started talking to her parents again months back and they started helping her through school again and they were supportive of the idea of us moving. I thought about these things. I realized that I had a problem. I realized that I needed to find out what was going on in my head that caused me to neglect someone that I cared for so much. How could I treat someone so bad that I wanted to spend the rest of my life with? I ended up at my fathers house who has gone through enough therapy in his life to write a book. He just talked me through the situation and told me that I should talk to someone. I also realized that I have a thyroid gland problem that goes through both sides of my family. I started thinking that that might also be a factor. My mother had an anger control problem for a while and then she was diagnosed with some thyroid problem that she was prescribed medicine for ... they ended up helping the anger and other parts of her emotions. I tried to sign up for therapy that day but they were closed. I made the decision to take therapy and quit my job. I got another job that I start soon and Ive called a therapy help line to talk me through some stuff. The past few days have been weird. My girlfriend (or ex girlfriend ..... i hate saying that) and I have been talking and we have even just cuddled because we both miss each other but she cant trust me. I completely understand that she cant trust me. I practically lied to her by telling her that I would fix things and didnt. She doesnt know anymore if she wants to give me another chance. She doesnt want to get hurt again. I dont want to hurt her again. I told her I would never hurt her and I did. I honestly feel that I can change myself. Im starting therapy and im going to confront everything that I should have before. But im worried that during the time im getting my life in order, shes going to completely get over me. I dont know if I can handle that. I dont want to live without her now. Its too late. She doesnt know if she can or wants to do it again. I wish there was some way that I could tell her all of the things that I realized about myself without her thinking that im just telling her to tell her. Im making the effort to confront my problems. I would ask her to come with me to one of my therapy meetings once I start going but by the time that happens, she might be over me and I dont really think she believes in therapy. Im not really a big fan either, but ill try anything right now to make things better. Ive never really had someone to talk to about my problems. I just dont want to lose her. I cant go on without her. I saw myself growing old with her. I saw myself retiring in the future somewhere quiet and calm and having just a beautiful relationship. I just want to be with her. I miss her so much. I miss the smell of her hair, i miss the way her skin felt against mine when we slipped into eachothers arms when we slept. I just dont know what more I can do right now. She wants to see me do something but im doing all I can do right now. I have to give her the space that shes asking for. I sleep in the living room. I tried to make reservations at a restaurant last week after it was closed and they allowed it. I got a nice table with a candle and they were going to sing Happy Belated Birthday. I know I can never make up for messing her birthday up. And shes brought up the fact that I never fixed messing her birthday up. I wanted to do something special for her. I hoped that it would somehow ... not make everything better .... but at least let her know that I really do care and I want to make the effort to make things better. She didnt want to go. I understood. Today we went out for lunch together and we talked about the situation again like we have the past few days. She still doesnt think that I can do it. She thinks that what I turned into was the "real" me and its just going to repeat itself. But thats not the case. I really want to do this. I know I have a problem and I want to be a better person. If I make the effort to do it and do it then we can have the relationship that we both wanted. I told her that I would continue to try to get my life in order and continue to try to fix our broken relationship until she tells me not to anymore. I just dont know what ill do if she tells me not to anymore. Thats the story. Now that leaves the question. I dont know if I should leave the band that hasnt been doing it for me and leave the house so I can let her have her space without me clouding her judgement by hugging her and trying to be near her as often as possible. Or should I just stay in the house, continue to sleep with the few pictures I have of her, hope that my efforts will be noticed eventually and hope that she doesnt get over me before I actually get somewhere in therapy. I just want to do the right thing. Im sorry that was long, but I had to say it all. Thanks.

[heidu]

Rxwillow,
I read your post and I have some thoughts for you but I don't have time right now. I really relate to what your saying but more from her point of view. I will say that I think you have the right perspective on the situation.
I will try to reply over the weekend.
Hiedu

[rxwillow]

Thank you so much for taking the time to read all that. Im looking forward to any input you have.

[heidu]

Hi rxwillow,
My post is long too!
I have to say that I can only give you information from my experience. Since I don’t know all the details I will just let you know what I think and I hope something I have to say can help you.
Your situation is eerily familiar with my husbands and mine and when I read your post I really related to a lot of things.
My husband went thru the same things you mentioned. He wasn’t ready for a serious relationship (marriage) but he did it anyway. There was a lot of things he felt he should be able to provide for me but wasn’t in a position to do so. He had a lot of guilt and anxiety about it. He also wanted to hang with his friends and spent a lot of time away doing fun things alone or with friends and I was stuck at home. Our situation is a little different because I moved to another country to be with him so I didn’t have a personal foundation of work, family or friends. I don’t think a couple needs to be together every minute. It’s important to spend time on your own or doing your own thing. There has to be a balance. My husband is also a musician and music is important. Sometimes it can take a lot of time and energy but I believe that if that is something you are really interested in you have to persue it. Again, it’s just a matter of balance.
My husband held in a lot of anger about us getting married since he wasn’t ready, not able to provide and felt like he was losing his “single life”. He didn’t realize I would never take away his life but only wanted to enhance it. He took out his frustrations and anger on me. It was horrible. I didn’t understand what was happening and why. I hadn’t done anything but love him. It was a hard, isolating, sad time for me. We fought a lot and I tried to explain to him what he was doing and how it was hurting me but he, like you, didn’t realize what he was doing. He apoligized but nothing changed and nothing stopped. For me it was hurt after hurt after hurt. I felt so unimportant. I knew he loved me but he didn’t care. I didn’t have the option to leave so I am still here.
It really does blow my mind reading your post how many things you guys did the same. At the same time you are totally different. You seem to realize there is a problem and want to make it right. It’s so hard for me to write this and think clearly because I feel like we are in the same situation but at the opposite sides. Maybe you can give me some insight into the why’s of all this because I have a really hard time understanding how it happened myself.
The main thing I think is trust. You broke her trust. You said she was afraid of being hurt again. In essence she doesn’t trust that you won’t hurt her. I can relate to that. My husband has given me reasons why he did what he did but for me there is just no excuse and there really is no way to make up for it. It’s really confusing. On one hand I want this marriage to work but at the same time I can’t understand how it went so wrong to begin with that I can’t be sure it won’t happen again. It isn’t up to me how my husband treats me, it’s up to him. It’s scary because I have no control over the situation and have to leave it in his hands to do the right things. Problem is I don’t trust him to do that. Does that make sense at all?
I think you are doing the right thing by getting some therapy. You are not a bad person but like you said, something made you act that way and you don’t know how or why you could treat someone you love so much that way. I think it’s great that you are seeking help. Even if this doesn’t work out with her you will not carry this into another relationship in the future. I also think quitting your job was smart. Stressful jobs are not worth it. They take a toll physically and emotionally and no job is worth that kind of stress.
You said you were afraid that by the time you got yourself in order it would be too late but also said you are still having some intimate moments of cuddling together. That is a plus. That means that she still cares for you. She may not believe in Counseling but it does work and she will see a change in you. She also will know that you are making an effort to do whatever you can to make things right. Whether she goes to counselling with you is not important. Do it for you and concentrate on that. The future will take care of itself and your counsellor can help you decide if she should come or not. The counsellor should also be able to give you some information on what you could tell her to make her understand what you are feeling and thinking.
You do need to give her space. It’s okay to let her know how you feel but not to pressure her. The more you push the more she will push away. Let her know you are there and your not willing to give up but don’t smother her. My husband never stopped saying he loved me even when he knew I wouldn’t say it back. I haven’t really said it for about a year but he still tells me everyday. That is important to me. It says something about him. Most people wouldn’t say I love you when they KNEW they wouldn’t hear it back. He never pressures me to say or do anything that I don’t want to. Sometimes his hugs made me cringe but he wanted to show me his love and even though I was uncomfortable it still meant something to me. Now I appreciate those hugs.
In my case I don’t feel there is anyway for my husband to make up for what he did and I have also been afraid that what I saw in him is the real him. Now I realize that it is not the real him but he has the potential to be that person if he allows himself to be. Everyone has a “dark side”, some control it better than others. I believe if he went to counselling he would understand the things that make him react that way and he would get tools to work thru those things so they wouldn’t get so ugly and hurtful. I am not so lucky since my husband doesn’t yet see that counselling is really a good option. Don’t give up until you get in to some good counselling.
As for moving and quitting your band, you really need to make that choice. It might be something you could discuss with her. The moving part any way, ask her what would make her the most comfortable.
The only reason I am in this marriage today is because I have seen effort on his part. Not enough to make me want to stay but something. For me, if he voluntarily went to counselling, that would make a huge difference. I know if I forced him he would go but then he isn’t going because he sees a problem. You do and want to fix it. That says a lot about you. Also a big part of it was for a long time he apologized but it never felt genuine. When he apologized and I knew he meant it then I knew he had really realized what he had done. Another part for me was because he was off doing his own thing and not asking me to go with and not asking me to spend time with him I felt that he didn’t want me around. Now, even if he does want me to do or go somewhere with him I always feel like he is doing it cause he has to not because he wants to. I don’t know if she feels this way or not.
Another main thing for me is I don’t feel he is honest with his feelings good or bad. I don’t know if that is something you have to deal with. You said you never really had anyone to talk to about problems. If you are like him he has kept things bottled up. Things that happened or hurt that he never dealt with but he doesn’t even realize they are still there. It would mean a lot for me if he were more honest about how he felt about things. I guess I don’t believe he knows how but it is something that would help a lot. Part if being able to trust him. I think counselling would help him learn how to do that.
I hope we can keep in touch. Hearing you say things about what you did and how you feel about it helped me to understand my husband just a little more. Didn’t know you were helping someone just by asking for help, huh?
Take care of yourself and let me know if you have more questions or just want to talk about it.
Heidu

[rxwillow]

Thank you so much for writing back. Its strange that we are in the same situation. I knew that this might happen to other people, but I didnt think Id ever be able to find someone to talk to about it. It helps to hear something from the other side as well. As for your situation, I believe that the think that made me want to change was when I no longer had the little things that I cherished so much. The saying that you dont know what you have till youve lost it is so true. I never thought that it would get as bad as it did. I never thought that she would leave me. It hurts to think that the only way that I could understand and want to get help was to lose her. Just the way that she said "hello" was different to me. I dont know if the same thing would work in your situation but it might. It sounds like your husband does still love you but he hasnt been able to understand how you feel and he doesnt even understand how much he DOES love you. He hasnt been able to understand how important the relationship is to him. When you put so much time into a relationship no matter how painful the relationship may be sometimes, the time and effort is hard to let go. I knew that we had great times together before the changes happened and I learned that I wanted them again. I learned that she was the most important part of my life. I hope that I can help you understand where your husband is coming from by speaking with you. If we are able to help eachother through this I think we could strengthen both of our relationships. I have been thinking of letting her read what ive written and maybe it might strike a nerve in your husband as well. When he sees that someone else is having the same problem as him and how therapy might just bring my relationship back together, maybe that will make him want to do the same.
I know I can do this and I believe you can too.
Joel

[rmm5497]

Willow...your post brought tears to my eyes...I wish that my husband had had the same reconigtion of the affect his anger had had on our relationship and the same passion to make a change...I just left him but our situation is a little different because my husband and I had also grown worlds apart in terms of everydays interests...we just became two completely different people ON TOP of being emotionally disconnected because of his reoccurrent anger. My only advice is this...be there for her emotionally, know that alot of her trust and respect for you has been put into question and that that colors the ways she behaves toward to, that just as you will struggle to find the reasons for your anger and modify your behavior that she will struggle with doubt. TALK, TALK, TALK, don't be pushy but be affectionate, tell her that you realize that your anger was a problem, tell her that you are willing to do whatever it takes to overcome that for YOURSELF, and then SHOW her by following through and by being understanding of her doubt when she does make it evident. (That I think will be the hardest thing because you will be making your best effort and she will still for a long while have a hard time believing in it.) BUT HAVE HOPE. If she is living in the same house with you and you really do make a positive change for yourself it will be impossible for her not to see that and if you were really in love, if what you had was that kind of enduring specialness then it will not die so quickly and completely. The road ahead will be difficult for both of you and my heart is with you. Good luck.