[mrnonamer]

First, I want to say I love my fiancé very much and think she's an amazing woman. We just have different ways of communicating. When we get into an altercation, she wants to talk (argue) about it immediately, but I think it's wiser to wait until we aren't as heated and give it time to process.

She says I'm stonewalling and being emotionally void and I tell her I don't think as fast as she does and need more time to gather my thoughts and feelings, analyze the situation and give my self time to cool off so I don't say something hurtful I will regret later.

This leads to her getting frustrated with me, then following me wherever I am to harass and chastise me. This is a repeat situation for us that usually last for about 20-30 minutes at a time.

This last time, which was last week, it lasted on and off for hours through the night. Of course, since I was never given the chance to cool off and process, I couldn't get in the right headspace to think through, then talk about the situation.

The time before last, 8 days ago, I recorded the episode so I could show her later in hopes she would see from my prospective what it was like.

I just watched the video which starts about 20 minutes into the yelling and lasts for 1 minute 27 seconds. I counted 19 times during the minute and a half video where I asked to be left alone. Nearly every time she says something during the mean streaks, my response is various ways of saying "will you please give me some space, I'm not ready to talk right now".

My plan didn't work. Even after watching the video she has no remorse and doesn't think she's really doing anything wrong.

The other day, I was reading a state.gov website on what is considered domestic violence and abuse. To my surprise, the website listed harassment as a form of control and abuse which is by law treated as domestic violence.

When I showed her this, she got offended and said what she is doing isn't considered domestic violence. She was physically and verbally abused in a past relationship and can't fathom how the two could even be related.

I know what she was put through was very sad and traumatic as it always is in those situations. I know I won't be seeking group therapy for the torment I feel when she's doing it. I know there are far, far worse situations in the domestic violence category that people go through on a daily basis that don't even compare to the minor harassment I go through.

Which brings me to my question: Is what she is doing illegal?

I'm looking for opinions here, not legal advice. I would never even consider filling charges against her, but I want her to know and understand the seriousness of the situation and if, in fact, random people on the Internet who don't know us or have any bias think what she's doing is illegal in the eyes of the law.

Thank you so much for taking the time to read all of this and even more so if you take a few seconds to give a quick thought on the matter, if you have one.

[Skeezyks]

Hello mrnonamer: Well... I don't know where you live. I also don't know anything about this website you visited. But, personally, I would have to say no, what your fiancé is doing certainly is not illegal... at least not in any practical sense.

Actually, there was an interesting article in our local newspaper recently that bore on this subject. Basically what it was saying was that "giving someone the silent treatment", so to speak, is a form of emotional abuse. So, in cases where a person doesn't feel able to talk through a situation right away, what the article suggested was that the person who does not feel ready to talk should clearly state this & ask for time to cool down... think things through, etc. From what you wrote, it sounds like this is what you've been doing. But instead of getting the space you need, you're meeting with anger & verbal abuse. Unfortunately, human nature being what it is, I doubt making a video of one of your arguments, & showing it to your fiancé, could be expected to result in any kind of positive outcome.

The problem here, from my perspective, is that you each have your own way of approaching dispute resolution. And neither of you seem to feel able (or perhaps willing) to adopt the other person's approach. In order to resolve this impasse, either one of you is going to have to give in & adopt the other person's approach, or somehow the two of you are going to have to find some compromise. Of course, the mainstream way of approaching something like this is via couples counseling. However, that requires that there be two willing participants, which there may not be in this case. That being the case, my suggestion here (having been married for over 30 years) would be, (to borrow a phrase from the old original "Star Wars" movie): "Let the Wookie win..."

I see this is your first post here on PC. So... welcome to PsychCentral… from the Skeezyks! I hope you find the time you spend here to be of benefit.

PsychCentral is a great place to get information as well as support for mental health issues. There are many knowledgeable & caring members here. The more you post, & reply to other members’ posts, the more a part of the community you will become. Plus there are social groups you can join & chat rooms where you’ll be able to connect with other PC members in real time (once your first 5 posts have been reviewed & approved.) Lots of great stuff! So please keep posting!

No.
I think you are taking taking it too far, both in your analysis and your conclusions.

Are you sure you love this woman?

[Crazy Hitch]

No I don't believe you are at all and definitely not in the context of harassment as it may have been implied with abuse.

You've got two different personality styles. She sounds impulsive and wanting to settle disputes rapidly rather than give you "breathing space".

When the time is right, have a conversation with her about your need to wind down then tackle the argument. Don't broach this in the middle of a heated debate.

[nicoleflynn]

Verbal abuse: THe Verbally Abusive Relationship by Patricia Evans is a MUST read. Actually, in France, verbal abuse IS criminal. The U.S. has a long way to go. If you are interested; I have written a paper on the subject. It is destructive emotionally and physically. You can also look it up online....verbal abuse and get information.

You might want to seek therapy for yourself (never go with the abuser)However, if you read the aforementioned book........your eyes will be opened.

Verbal abuse is all about control; insecurity. They are emotional vampires and need a constant "supply"--that supply is you.....trying to explain yourself, etc......

[amandalouise]

here in my location no this would not be called abuse. its not a nice thing to do I agree but its not abuse here where I am..

you see each state, city and town in the USA has their own laws and standards of what is abuse.

to find out if this is abuse in your own location you will need to contact law enforcement, a doctor, therapist or other person in authority that will know what the laws and definitions of abuse are in your own location...

that said there are things you can do in this kind of situation ...

walk away, not just to another room walk out of the home and go for a walk or to the store or other location with out this person.

go to the bathroom and lock the door, in the bathroom have a pair of headphones, music player or other device you can block out everything except your own thoughts,

take a shower. most people cant hear very good when they are under the shower faucet.

get some cleaning done by turning on the vacuum cleaner and vacuum or other noisy housework ...

my point is you cant control her and what she does but you can control you. only you can decide whether you want to listen to her attempting to keep a lovers spat \ or arguement or other actions where she feels she needs an answer right away but you are not ready to answer right away. only you know what activities and such are available to you when you need to have some alone time.

[ComfortablyNumb5]

It sounds to me like you two have two different fighting styles. She gets heated and can't control her emotions where as you put your head in the sand. As a matter of fact, this is just like my relationship. I want to get it out right away and let it be known that I'm mad. And that's not always good. I often jump to conclusions in my anger and make the fight worse. Whereas my bf just stays quiet and usually doesn't even tell me he's mad at all. I hate it. I think you should consider counseling where you can have a mediator between you two. Then when she gets upset tell her you'll discuss it in therapy when you are ready. I think it's smart of you to take your time and think the situation out. You just found someone that likes the dramatics of an argument. She might possibly be wanting your attention. At least thats how I feel when I'm mad. I want to be heard and heard RIGHT NOW. I need the spotlight. It's bad and it's something I plan to work on in therapy and I really think it has to do with my BPD and impulsiveness.

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[healingme4me]

My rule of thumb has been to err on the side of not confronting the other about the abuse label, it can leave a wound that's difficult to recover from. Not that she couldn't learn a thing or two about raised voices and following from room to room. It's truly important to address your feelings in the moment, however. Behaviors need to be addressed in the moment. And time frames are important to give if fear is of saying something regrettable.

For instance, "I cherish you dearly. When you raise your voice at me, I feel angry and frustrated and I hesitate because I don't want to say something that I'll regret. If screaming is going to continue, I'm going to need to leave the conversation for 30 minutes. Then I'm willing to discuss this calmly and with civility. "

Sometimes it's important to use expressions that work for yourselves. It's one example of a way to work through things.

Active listening is another communication tool.

Going on like this seems draining.

"Investigate your hidden assumptions."-Cornel West

[BipolarMama31]

Im like you. Need to be alone, process, cool down. Then talk.

My husband used to follow me into rooms, unlock doors, just to finish an argument.

I brought it up in therapy with him. The therapist told him, if the door is locked, you dont go in yelling. You wait.

Hes never done it since.

But i think that if i told him he was abusing me, based off a website, he would be hurt. Dont know if i could come back from that. The better way would to explain your feelings when there is no argument going on.

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[Bill3]

How soon after the first raised voice do you begin to say that you want time alone?

I think it's wise to stop analyzing things. If you are unsafe, find shelter. If you are safe, you all need counseling. There are serious concerns here on both sides, IMO. Good luck.

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[mugwort2]

Yes verbal abuse is certainly abuse. It is quite hurtful and demeaning. I know from personal experience. I was abused this way by my mom and decades later by a man who lived with me. It can really wreck your self esteem. It is important to be able to communicate your emotions. Perhaps I feel etc vs you make me feel or you're a... could be helpful ways to express yourself.

[Yoda]

Originally Posted by RxQueen875

It sounds to me like you two have two different fighting styles. She gets heated and can't control her emotions where as you put your head in the sand. As a matter of fact, this is just like my relationship. I want to get it out right away and let it be known that I'm mad. And that's not always good. I often jump to conclusions in my anger and make the fight worse.

^^^^ This.

When I was younger I also wanted to talk things out/settle an argument as soon as I became upset. I couldn't let it go and that was problematic for my relationships. I am older and wiser now and although I am not in a romantic relationship anymore I have learned as a parent that sometimes waiting to discuss a problem is more effective.

Technically I am not certain if what you describe is abuse but nevertheless it is unhealthy and unproductive. I hope your partner can learn how to discuss problems in a healthier way more quickly than I did.

[Rose76]

In answer to your question: Is what she doing illegal? I would say: No, emphatically, no.

I was actually in a situation where I was being verbally harrassed by my boyfriend with whom I lived. One day he actually said, "You better get your act together before I put a bullet in your head." He's not violent at all and I had no fear whatsoever that this was a real threat. But I was sick of being verbally badgered to death, so I did call the cops. I emphasized that it was no emergency. When they came, I reported what he had said. They asked him if it was true. He said, "I have freedom of speech." One of the officers responded, "Not to say that!"

There were two officers and I think they probably accurately assessed the situation. They didn't separate us and speak to each of us individually, which they would have, if they thought I was in real danger. One of the officers said to my bf, "If she calls us again because of you making a statement like that, we will arrest you." Then they addressed me. One of them said, "Ma'm, if you are living in an unhappy situation, you need to understand that calling us is not going to solve your problem. If the two of you really can't get along better, then you may need to separate and go your separate ways." I affirmed that I understood that. At the time I was unemployed and felt trapped. My plan was to move out, as soon as I found steady work . . . and that's what I did do.

Neither society, nor the police, nor opinions you solicit from others can make your fiance behave the way you wish she would. You're looking for some leverage to use on her, which is fine, but I think you're dreaming, if you think this is how you are going to gain any.

Everyone has a right to some boundaries, even within the context of the home they share with another. When we first started living together, my boyfriend thought it was okay for him to open my mail. That is illegal. I told him that and absolutely forbade him to open anything addressed to me. Basically a relationship, especially a live-together one, is an ongoing negotiation between the parties involved as to what each will tolerate. With people who are very different, sometimes you just come to realise you can't live together. I am still with this guy, but we have separate apartments.

If you are going to stay living with this woman, it's really on you (not on the law) to figure out what leverage you can wield to motivate her to give you the space you are looking for. Sometimes it's a matter of being very firm in saying that you will not engage with her for the present. Maybe you need to have a room with an interior lock where you can retreat to. I'm a great believer in having a room of your own. (Could be a spare bedroom, or a den.) You might tell her that you will simply leave the house and go for a drive, if she pursues you when you want to be left alone.

Some couples' counseling might be in order here. My sense is that you two are at kind of an impasse.

[~Christina]

As mentioned you both have different ways and wants on how to handle disagreements.

My husband and I had to learn early on in our relationship how to fight fair, agree to certainly take time to cool off before we even deal with the issue(s)

Unless both of you can come to a agreement about these problems then you might want to rethink the relationship.

Couples counseling could make a huge positive change, but of course both parties have to want to make changes and compromises.

Good luck

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[TishaBuv]

Yes, it's verbal abuse, it's disrespect and disregard, it's just plain 'ol being a jerk and a bully. It's not illegal in the US. You are choosing to put up with it. You could leave.

You should reconsider marrying this woman. She doesn't even respect you enough to shut her mouth when you ask to be left alone for a while. This isn't going to get any better unless you solve this problem right now with threat of canceling the upcoming wedding. But, I still think, even if she can curb her badgering momentarily, the minute she has her hooks in you, she will get worse and you will be stuck with her.

In the beginning, especially in the engaged stage, people are on the BEST behavior. If this is her best...

Do you want to put up with abuse? Do you want your future children to have her as a mother?

[hazn]

Does it really matter whether her actions are legal or not? I think that's just a distraction. It's kind of a weird way of thinking about the whole thing.

If you've communicated to her that you need space and that you want to talk about the issue in your own time, she needs to respect that (Assuming you're being reasonable, and not ignoring her concerns).

What kind of things do you argue about anyway?