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  #1  
Old Oct 07, 2016, 03:31 PM
Anonymous37893
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The other day a good friend of mine had some disagreement with an independent contractor. I don't think that he managed to fix whatever the issue was. Anyways, he emailed her recently and told her that because of their "cultural" differences, that he couldn't help her or something like that.

She speaks English just fine. He's white if that matters btw. She is very upset about this but she's way to nice to complain about him to the BBB or yelp. She showed the email to her therapist and she was told that yes indeed he was out of line and that comment was racist.

Who can she complain to? She has not responded to that jerk yet. If she does, what should she say? I told her to not work with him again. My husband is very smart and he works for himself, but he told me that there isn't really any place that she can complain about him to.

What should she do? She is a passive person.

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  #2  
Old Oct 07, 2016, 03:45 PM
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LucyG LucyG is offline
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Sadly, there's really nothing anyone can do about someone else's conduct.

The best thing your friend can do is blow it off, and move on with her life.
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  #3  
Old Oct 07, 2016, 09:51 PM
butterfly24 butterfly24 is offline
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What was the issue, why couldn't he fix it, and what were the cultural differences that impacted his ability to fix it? Did your friend think the comment was racist before the therapist told her it was?

Racism means being biased against or disliking people solely because of their race.
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  #4  
Old Oct 08, 2016, 12:03 AM
brainy brainy is offline
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What she can do depends on where she lives. I mean, there are numerous organizations that can help. You're in the USA so for starters there's Consumer Affairs. She can also call 311, explain the situation and they'll take it from there. If they say there's nothing THEY can do, ask for information where she can get help. There are ALWAYS ways to get help! Don't let anyone say otherwise. She can contact the ABA (American Bar Association). Just go online for the number of your specific state. There are so many things that can be done.
The only thing really needed is foot power, determination and hard work to get things done.
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Nina Simone
  #5  
Old Oct 08, 2016, 12:14 AM
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Trippin2.0 Trippin2.0 is offline
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She can move on and get on with her life.


That's the best she can do for herself.
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  #6  
Old Oct 08, 2016, 12:58 AM
butterfly24 butterfly24 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brainy View Post
there are numerous organizations that can help.
That can help what?

Quote:
Originally Posted by brainy View Post
She can also call 311, explain the situation and they'll take it from there. If they say there's nothing THEY can do, ask for information where she can get help. There are ALWAYS ways to get help
What situation? Get help for what?

Quote:
Originally Posted by brainy View Post
She can contact the ABA (American Bar Association).... There are so many things that can be done.
The only thing really needed is foot power, determination and hard work to get things done.
Get what things done? Where do lawyers come into this?

We don't even know what 'situation' is going on here. A woman had a disagreement with a contractor who, we're told third-hand, apparently can't 'fix' whatever issue she has with his work. We have no idea what the work was, what the issue was, what it is he can't fix, or why he can't fix it. We have no idea what 'cultural differences' he's talking about or how they play into the work, the issue, or the disagreement in question.

One person, a therapist, uttered the word RACIST, and it's become a federal case, with no real facts, and we're talking about lawyers. Are they supposed to sue him for something? Charge him with some crime? What crime, when we don't even know any facts, except that he was unable to complete the work she wanted (apparently) and a third party who never met the guy called him a racist?

I'm with Trippin. She can get on with her life and hire a different contractor.
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divine1966, Michelea, Trippin2.0
  #7  
Old Oct 08, 2016, 05:58 AM
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divine1966 divine1966 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brainy View Post
What she can do depends on where she lives. I mean, there are numerous organizations that can help. You're in the USA so for starters there's Consumer Affairs. She can also call 311, explain the situation and they'll take it from there. If they say there's nothing THEY can do, ask for information where she can get help. There are ALWAYS ways to get help! Don't let anyone say otherwise. She can contact the ABA (American Bar Association). Just go online for the number of your specific state. There are so many things that can be done.
The only thing really needed is foot power, determination and hard work to get things done.
Complain to American Bar Association? About contractor? I am so confused why you suggest that. What are they going to do about it?
  #8  
Old Oct 08, 2016, 10:44 AM
brainy brainy is offline
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No. It's not to complain to them per se.

Racism is a constitutional offense.
So if she feels she may need legal assistance, that's one avenue for obtaining a qualified attorney if it has to be. It's up to her. And if she feels that's what she needs, they will talk with her to see if she really need their help, before assigning her an attorney. Everything will be explained.
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Nina Simone
  #9  
Old Oct 08, 2016, 11:00 AM
brainy brainy is offline
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This is one drawback of forums. Often and it's only right, we don't have the full story because the full story will never be told.
So I'm merely going by what I "see" here, based on her words. Once "racist" is spoken, it raises all sorts of negativety and that's only normal. So maybe it's not all that serious. But maybe it is. Who's to say? Really.
But as a retired Paralegal constitutional offenses, even if not serious in my/our minds, based on personal experiences though such experiences may be subjective, raises alarm.
Thus my merely suggestions, which I do and will stand by, no matter the disagreements.
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Nina Simone
  #10  
Old Oct 08, 2016, 04:32 PM
Anonymous37893
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Quote:
Originally Posted by butterfly24 View Post
What was the issue, why couldn't he fix it, and what were the cultural differences that impacted his ability to fix it? Did your friend think the comment was racist before the therapist told her it was?

Racism means being biased against or disliking people solely because of their race.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
I don't know most of the details. She hasn't even showed me the email yet, but will soon. If the therapist thought it was out of line, then it probably was. No, she wasn't sure what to think of what he said other than it seemed strange.

She thought that he didn't really mean much by it since he signed if with warm regards. My husband told me that he probably set his signature that way and that it means nothing. It doesn't make the other comment less offensive at all. I would've been livid if this was me and I would've told him that what he said was inappropriate and I would've left a bad review on whatever site I could to warn other people to look out for him.
  #11  
Old Oct 08, 2016, 04:34 PM
Anonymous37893
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brainy View Post
What she can do depends on where she lives. I mean, there are numerous organizations that can help. You're in the USA so for starters there's Consumer Affairs. She can also call 311, explain the situation and they'll take it from there. If they say there's nothing THEY can do, ask for information where she can get help. There are ALWAYS ways to get help! Don't let anyone say otherwise. She can contact the ABA (American Bar Association). Just go online for the number of your specific state. There are so many things that can be done.
The only thing really needed is foot power, determination and hard work to get things done.
------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks Brainy, you've been a real help, and I'll let her know all of this too! I knew that there had to be place that consumers could contact regarding these matters! She is way to nice at times. She is clearly upset by this.
  #12  
Old Oct 08, 2016, 04:38 PM
Anonymous37893
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Quote:
Originally Posted by butterfly24 View Post
That can help what?

What situation? Get help for what?



Get what things done? Where do lawyers come into this?

We don't even know what 'situation' is going on here. A woman had a disagreement with a contractor who, we're told third-hand, apparently can't 'fix' whatever issue she has with his work. We have no idea what the work was, what the issue was, what it is he can't fix, or why he can't fix it. We have no idea what 'cultural differences' he's talking about or how they play into the work, the issue, or the disagreement in question.

One person, a therapist, uttered the word RACIST, and it's become a federal case, with no real facts, and we're talking about lawyers. Are they supposed to sue him for something? Charge him with some crime? What crime, when we don't even know any facts, except that he was unable to complete the work she wanted (apparently) and a third party who never met the guy called him a racist?

I'm with Trippin. She can get on with her life and hire a different contractor.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
OK, first of all, there was no threat to sue or even hire a lawyer. She only needed advice on what to do. Clearly she was upset as most people would be if they went through something similar. At the very least she should email this jerk back and tell him that he was out of line and very unprofessional.

There was no need to use the phrase cultural differences in the email due to a disagreement. Just say that you disagree with this or that, but to bring culture into this matter is absurd IMHO.
  #13  
Old Oct 08, 2016, 04:40 PM
Anonymous37893
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Originally Posted by divine1966 View Post
Complain to American Bar Association? About contractor? I am so confused why you suggest that. What are they going to do about it?
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Well, I can look things up and see if she can even file a complaint with them. This is racist IMHO. Why not just say sorry, but I disagree with your opinion instead of bringing up something to do with culture? This guy was out of line. He needs to know that. She should write him back and let him know that. I would. He's only going to do this to other people, so someone needs to stop him and let him know this isn't professional behavior at all.
  #14  
Old Oct 08, 2016, 04:43 PM
Anonymous37893
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Originally Posted by brainy View Post
No. It's not to complain to them per se.

Racism is a constitutional offense.
So if she feels she may need legal assistance, that's one avenue for obtaining a qualified attorney if it has to be. It's up to her. And if she feels that's what she needs, they will talk with her to see if she really need their help, before assigning her an attorney. Everything will be explained.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
True, but she'd never go that far just because of one comment. It did upset her though, and she needs to let this guy know that it was out of line to make that comment to her. He could've just said sorry, I can't do this or that, or I disagree with your opinion in a professional matter, but to bring up culture is weird and racist IMHO.
  #15  
Old Oct 08, 2016, 04:47 PM
butterfly24 butterfly24 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shy Introvert View Post
-----------------------------------------------------------------
I don't know most of the details. She hasn't even showed me the email yet, but will soon. If the therapist thought it was out of line, then it probably was. No, she wasn't sure what to think of what he said other than it seemed strange.

She thought that he didn't really mean much by it since he signed if with warm regards. My husband told me that he probably set his signature that way and that it means nothing. It doesn't make the other comment less offensive at all. I would've been livid if this was me and I would've told him that what he said was inappropriate and I would've left a bad review on whatever site I could to warn other people to look out for him.
Therapists are not god.

Maybe this guy is the most racist human being ever to not-grace the face of this planet. But at the moment, what we have here is a second-hand account that a contractor couldn't fix something to her satisfaction, told her he couldn't, suggested they had 'cultural differences,' and signed it warm regards.

A therapist who knows nothing of the man but one e-mail has judged him heart and soul, and someone who is not even involved in this situation at all is now soliciting information on how to potentially destroy this guy legally and financially and via reviews of his business.

Over the two words, 'cultural differences.' When did 'cultural differences' become 'racism?' Is this a building project? Installing a floor, building a bathroom, renovating a kitchen? Does she want something done or built that's common in her culture but he doesn't know how to do it?

I personally know someone who put huge faith in feng shui and I can see this being something like a contractor saying, I CAN'T put a window there because of building codes, while the homeowner insists it must be there.

This is a 'for instance,' saying that I don't see any 'racism' in 'cultural differences.' She may simply want something that is common and normal to her but he simply is unable to do it or doesn't have the knowledge or isn't 'getting' exactly what she wants, do to not being of her culture. This is not 'racism,' if something like this is the case, but two people who don't understand each other, and maybe someone else is a better fit for the project she wants done.

Honestly, I think what's happening here, soliciting ways to prosecute someone we know nothing about, with hardly a single concrete detail, is what the beginning of mob hysteria looks like.

The FIRST step should have been to have all the details.
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Trippin2.0
  #16  
Old Oct 08, 2016, 05:19 PM
brainy brainy is offline
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Shy Introvert. How do you for sure that it was one offense?
Look. I only made a suggestion. Look. This is how it works.
When someone chooses to contact the ABA, after the initial interview they have knowledge and experience to understand that what a person comes in with is often not the whole story. As a matter of fact, it's often not half of the story. So they'll delve into history of the person being complained about (defendant). That's how they work.
For instance, so perhaps this man made only one remark. As far as she knows it's true, because he said it to her. Yet the ABA will research it. She can count on it if she chooses to take that route. That's a promise.
I must add this though, just as a caution. Attorneys are not cheap. So if, after making an independent decision to contact them (which means not allowing others to dissuade her from her decision to contact them, which "others" also include members of this forum who feels she doesn't have to or shouldn't take this route, because it is her sole decision), again, after making an indepedecision to contact them, and she cannot afford the attorneys assigned to her case, their are ABA attorneys who will serve her for less than the regular cost or refer her to those who will serve her without paying hardly anything. In that case she needs to make sure they are ABA approved.
  #17  
Old Oct 08, 2016, 06:06 PM
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LiteraryLark LiteraryLark is offline
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How do you know this is a racial offense?

The word "cultural" in the work force relate specifically to the core values of a company. It has nothing to do with your friend's race. Have you ever looked at a job's website? They usually talk about the culture of a company, they believe in integrity, they believe in honesty, etc. Your friend could simply not fit in with the company values.
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Trippin2.0
  #18  
Old Oct 08, 2016, 07:07 PM
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divine1966 divine1966 is offline
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I really don't understand how you can help her and with what? Does she not speak English? She could call the guy and ask what he meant or she can tell him she thinks he is totally off etc I don't understand why she needs help with this and why rather than talk to the person people want to run and complain to various organizations.
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  #19  
Old Oct 08, 2016, 11:29 PM
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Nina Simone Nina Simone is offline
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The comments are so interesting. It really shows how divided we are over race and culture. To quote Jane Elliott

White people’s number one freedom, in the United States of America, is the freedom to be totally ignorant of those who are other than white. We don’t have to learn about those who are other than white. And our number two freedom is the freedom to deny that we’re ignorant.
Jane Elliott

Contractors are licensed by the state. If in fact he is biased towards her because of race or culture a lawyer will let her know her rights. At the very least she should follow-up with a letter to the ABA which will impact his rating with them and review him on YELP.

While we may not know all the details if she is unhappy with the service she received she is within her right to complain.
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  #20  
Old Oct 08, 2016, 11:31 PM
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Nina Simone Nina Simone is offline
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Shy Introvert you are a very dear friend to help her with this. Many would just shrug it off as not their problem.
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  #21  
Old Oct 09, 2016, 12:58 AM
butterfly24 butterfly24 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nina Simone View Post
The comments are so interesting. It really shows how divided we are over race and culture. To quote Jane Elliott

White people’s number one freedom, in the United States of America, is the freedom to be totally ignorant of those who are other than white. We don’t have to learn about those who are other than white. And our number two freedom is the freedom to deny that we’re ignorant.
Jane Elliott

Contractors are licensed by the state. If in fact he is biased towards her because of race or culture a lawyer will let her know her rights. At the very least she should follow-up with a letter to the ABA which will impact his rating with them and review him on YELP.

While we may not know all the details if she is unhappy with the service she received she is within her right to complain.
That he feels he cannot do the job MAY NOT have anything to do with color. This is a HUGE assumption, and frankly, what you quoted is full of assumptions, a sweeping generalization, and highly offensive,

That a guy thinks he can't do a job to her satisfaction and 'bias toward her race or culture' are two totally different things. If he had such a bias, would he have agreed to work for her in the first place?

If she is unhappy with his work, she is within her rights to complain.

But I don't believe anyone is within their rights to start labeling people racist without facts. WHICH ARE ALMOST COMPLETELY MISSING IN THIS THREAD.
Thanks for this!
divine1966, LiteraryLark, s4ndm4n2006, Trippin2.0
  #22  
Old Oct 09, 2016, 02:21 AM
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Nina Simone Nina Simone is offline
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Aren't pretty much all the posts on these boards generalization? I must have missed the ones that cite references and verified quotes. He could have an issue with race and/or culture the quote really applies to both. If you found it offensive you should ask yourself why. He may or may not be bias, a bigot, racist, etc. but he may be all of those things and more! If her friend feels that he may be she should make a complaint. I'm sure there are plenty of people who will hire him regardless.
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  #23  
Old Oct 09, 2016, 03:10 AM
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Trippin2.0 Trippin2.0 is offline
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When exactly did "cultural differences" become a racial slur?


Damn I need to keep up with the times.
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  #24  
Old Oct 09, 2016, 06:48 PM
butterfly24 butterfly24 is offline
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So 'we have cultural differences' is racist and '[all] white people are ignorant of other cultures and even so ignorant they don't know how ignorant they are' is not.

If I must ask myself why such a blatant generalization and insult is offensive--does this work both ways? Shouldn't someone ask themselves why 'cultural differences...I can't do the job...warmest regards' is offensive--let alone racist?

Let me point out, "I can't do the job" and "cultural differences" are not insults. "Ignorant" is.
Thanks for this!
s4ndm4n2006, Trippin2.0
  #25  
Old Oct 09, 2016, 10:00 PM
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Nina Simone Nina Simone is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by butterfly24 View Post
So 'we have cultural differences' is racist and '[all] white people are ignorant of other cultures and even so ignorant they don't know how ignorant they are' is not.

If I must ask myself why such a blatant generalization and insult is offensive--does this work both ways? Shouldn't someone ask themselves why 'cultural differences...I can't do the job...warmest regards' is offensive--let alone racist?

Let me point out, "I can't do the job" and "cultural differences" are not insults. "Ignorant" is.
You seem very put out by all of this. What exactly qualifies you to decide what is or isn't offensive and\or racist? If a minority feels that someone is acting towards them in a racist\bigoted\bias\etc. manner who are you to tell them they are not entitled to their feelings? This goes back to the quote from Jane Elliott. You should read her work! Open your mind to the experiences of other people who less entitled and privileged than you. Learn to grow as a person!
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