[TishaBuv]

Just spoke to my mother and my friend. They are both very toxic, triggering people.

My mom went on and on about her misery and pain.

I just keeps saying 'ah ha' as to show i am listening. Then said i loved her and hung up.

My friend kept trying to trigger me by probing about my marriage and talking about her romantic relationships and in general because she gets off on doing that. Again, i said 'ah ha' and listened, then every time she tried to get me to respond i said 'I don't want to discuss it'. She gave up and we hung up very nicely.

No drama when i don't participate! So proud of myself.

Though I am sure you only want the best for your mom and friend, there is some satisfaction in knowing that you now have it more "together" than they do! You sound like a great daughter and friend.

[TishaBuv]

Yes, as messed us as i am i DO have it more together than them!

They are both abusive. Just abusive relationships i navigate.

Does anyone else feel like that?

I have known some really nice, normal friends. I tend to not open up as much to them and keep a distance from them. Because 'normal' bores me and i feel too weird for them.

Then i have toxic, abusive relationships i tend to get closest to, but need to navigate or i fall into it with them.

[s4ndm4n2006]

Originally Posted by TishaBuv

Just spoke to my mother and my friend. They are both very toxic, triggering people.

My mom went on and on about her misery and pain.

I just keeps saying 'ah ha' as to show i am listening. Then said i loved her and hung up.

My friend kept trying to trigger me by probing about my marriage and talking about her romantic relationships and in general because she gets off on doing that. Again, i said 'ah ha' and listened, then every time she tried to get me to respond i said 'I don't want to discuss it'. She gave up and we hung up very nicely.

No drama when i don't participate! So proud of myself.

Very good. you should be proud of yourself but it begs the question, why do you have a friend that would be that toxic?

[TishaBuv]

Because she's grandfathered in? Because i can be myself with her?

We go all the way back to jr. high together. It's been on/off. Spent years not speaking thinking i got rid of a toxic friend, but i keep going back.

She's bad but also can be good.

My h and i went out the other night with her and her friends for her birthday. We left right after dinner because her and her friends were making fun of my husband.

Aside from my sisters, my step-dad, my three nice gf's, and my children, ALL my other relationships (my mother, husband, and this toxic friend) are ALL my relationships.

Then i have acquaintance/friends and work-related relationships that are fine at a distance.

And other family members that are fine and at a distance. But that's because they live far away. They would be fine even if they lived close.

That's it in my world, aside from folks on here and my new therapist (marriage counselor)

[TishaBuv]

My mother is very sick and won't live forever. She is going to hate me and write me off soon any way when i won't let her live with me once my step dad dies.

My h is hanging on by a thread. I can't keep this up. IDK what'll happen.

My friend won't live forever either. She's morbidly obese. Very self destructive. It's better to keep a safe distance relationship than to write her off forever.

[TishaBuv]

Having the toxic relationships at all is wrong.

I can't get rid of my mother, and now she is just sick and i feel sorry for her.

I can get divorced (there's that word again I have used hundreds of times and didn't go through with!).

I can get far away from toxic gf.

[s4ndm4n2006]

Originally Posted by TishaBuv

Because she's grandfathered in? Because i can be myself with her?

We go all the way back to jr. high together. It's been on/off. Spent years not speaking thinking i got rid of a toxic friend, but i keep going back.

She's bad but also can be good.

My h and i went out the other night with her and her friends for her birthday. We left right after dinner because her and her friends were making fun of my husband.

Aside from my sisters, my step-dad, my three nice gf's, and my children, ALL my other relationships (my mother, husband, and this toxic friend) are ALL my relationships.

Then i have acquaintance/friends and work-related relationships that are fine at a distance.

And other family members that are fine and at a distance. But that's because they live far away. They would be fine even if they lived close.

That's it in my world, aside from folks on here and my new therapist (marriage counselor)

well I understand more than you know how you went back after thinking you got rid of a toxic friend. When you continued with how she and her friends were ridiculing your husband, memories of my past came rushing in.

I grew up with someone that "should be" more than a friend. A brother. I grew up with his toxicity but found myself defending him much of the time as I learned growing up that he was the sort of "god" of the family and could do no wrong.. I knew the reality of things but at the same time I was part of the dysfunctional family dynamic and knew nothing different so kept on. It was not until my adult life where I left all that behind that I was able to look back and see just how dysfunctional they (and I) were.

I know this was not about your friend in your OP, but it stands out very strongly to me that you seem to be doing kind of the same thing as I did for my early life with my brother.

in passing you say "she's bad, but she can be good" then you go on to give some more negatives about how she is. I still do not see the positives that make you want to be friends with her. You say. "I can be myself" Umm. I know this is blunt but I call BS on that. you can't be yourself. You are giving her a pass for some reason when what I've seen is she ridicules your h, she uses your troubles and/or weaknesses as ways to trigger you and get a rise out of you. So truthfully you are in denial when you say you can be yourself. YOu can but not without her throwing your stuff in your face later. That's not friendship. A friend will not use your weaknesses as ways to get you to react or be triggered. A friend does not ridicule you or your spouse when you are not both joking TOGETHER about something.

just being honest in what I see here.

I agree with what S4 stated above. I'd just not answer the phone and listen to those toxic people go on and on about the same crap again and again. Especially if it's meant to bring you down.

Just keep the conversations short and don't answer the phone that often. It's clear that you're not invested in the conversation, so why torture yourself with their calls? Just avoid them and switch to texting or emailing them to where it'll be easier to avoid responding to them that much. You can even respond with emoji's and lots of sad faces when you feel like it, even if it happens to be an hour later instead of saying ah ha every few minutes, lol!

[TishaBuv]

Here's what i posted on 5/26/16:

"Reconnected with Girlfriends
It's kinda miraculous, I just reconnected with my best friends. That sounds weird doesn't it? Why should best friends have ever lost touch in the first place?

I met them both when I was in 8th grade and moved to a new town. We were best friends through high school.

After high school, I went to college, E got married, and C went to community college and got close with a different group of friends. So in the pre-Facebook days, out of sight was out of mind.

C and I have had a life-long friendship where I have had to de-friend her for periods of years 'never to speak again' because she is pretty out there, toxic, says whatever she thinks, completely insensitive, cuts to the core. She is the funniest person alive, basically a caring person, but I had to ban her from being around my family because she is so obnoxious.

E is a very nice, sweet person. I really don't know why we stopped being friends once she got married. She did come to my wedding, too. But, I lived an hour away. We had separate lives. Raised our families. And had occasional phone calls over the years. I kept trying to make plans to get together, and she would blow it off. I assumed there was some reason she wouldn't see me.

So, two weeks ago, when I was running away from my husband. I called C and made up with her. We got together that day and called E and she joined us. It was just like old times, instant BFFs, like nothing had changed.

Now, I'll be seeing them this weekend and we are talking about taking a trip together this summer. I am so thankful to have my friends back! Being separated from my husband, I instantly found others to be with.

I'll tread lightly with C, knowing her flaws, I won't give her ammunition.

When a door closes, another one opens. "

[TishaBuv]

There's a fun-loving party animal on the fringe side to me. These girls and I were pretty wild in high school. Getting together with them that weekend, we were somehow actually worse. I'm ashamed to get into the details. I was the instigator because I was so crazed from thinking I was really getting divorced.

[TishaBuv]

She has a fettish and knows this guy through that. I got her to call him just because i wanted to smoke pot and she said he's get us high.

[TishaBuv]

I wonder if i was manic?

It was like my whole life had fallen apart, so i went running right back to my girlfriends who weren't good for me. But I am the instigator! I always was!

Was it just because i wanted to smoke pot? Was it that I needed to feel alive?

No, I didn't use good judgment. But, it was ok. Nobody got hurt.

[TishaBuv]

In my defense, my gf's did their promiscuous acts mostly when not even with me and not due to my making anything happen.

I was much more selective and less promiscuous than they were.

My friend E is not toxic and we were always good friends.

C is mostly her own worst enemy. I think she genuinely loves me, but she is also jealous with her own misery and likes to take others down to make herself feel better.

And that high school promiscuity was in the wake of my father's death and my virginity lost to date rape (which I did not understand at the time).

I think i have never really matured and that there is a lot wrong with me.

[hvert]

Originally Posted by TishaBuv

I have known some really nice, normal friends. I tend to not open up as much to them and keep a distance from them. Because 'normal' bores me and i feel too weird for them.

Then i have toxic, abusive relationships i tend to get closest to, but need to navigate or i fall into it with them.

OMG, this is me. I do the same thing. And with the toxic people, I get to a point where I can't stand it anymore and cut off all contact. It feels like there should be a happy medium. I do have some friends who are more in the middle, weird but not toxic, but not enough of them...

[TishaBuv]

Originally Posted by hvert

OMG, this is me. I do the same thing. And with the toxic people, I get to a point where I can't stand it anymore and cut off all contact. It feels like there should be a happy medium. I do have some friends who are more in the middle, weird but not toxic, but not enough of them...

We are those happy mediums.

My mom and sister love kooky, interesting characters, too. Also, have had to periodically cut them off because they're too much.

We used to have a store, and we had many bizarre customers who wouldn't just shop, they would come and visit.

I guess I like them because they're fun and interesting, but there tends to be drawbacks with them.

And i can't stand boring!

Do you think it''s a PD trait?

[TishaBuv]

Better yet, let's change this thread title to "Withdrawing Myself FROM Toxic Relationships".

I just ended the big 'un. Quite proud of myself. When push comes to shove, I have self esteem!

Now for the healing, nurturing the non-toxic relationships, finding new healthy ones.

This is what healthy people do!!!

[hvert]

Originally Posted by TishaBuv

...
We used to have a store, and we had many bizarre customers who wouldn't just shop, they would come and visit.

I guess I like them because they're fun and interesting, but there tends to be drawbacks with them.

And i can't stand boring!

Do you think it''s a PD trait?

I don't know if it is a PD trait. I think it's a 'growing up in a dysfunctional family' trait, at least for me. My family wasn't normal, so I couldn't be friends with normal kids at a young age. It's really hard to cultivate healthy relationships when most of your relationships have been unhealthy. I also am not sure what's acceptable behavior and what isn't, although I have a much better idea now than I did a few years ago.

I've been a regular at places where I go more for the visiting than the shopping, lol. I'm still friends with one shop owner even though her store closed.

[TishaBuv]

Originally Posted by hvert

I don't know if it is a PD trait. I think it's a 'growing up in a dysfunctional family' trait, at least for me. My family wasn't normal, so I couldn't be friends with normal kids at a young age. It's really hard to cultivate healthy relationships when most of your relationships have been unhealthy. I also am not sure what's acceptable behavior and what isn't, although I have a much better idea now than I did a few years ago.

I've been a regular at places where I go more for the visiting than the shopping, lol. I'm still friends with one shop owner even though her store closed.

And yet my family was so much more normal than other families I grew up with. This family a few houses down from us did so many things that we used to laugh about. I was friends with the daughter who was 5 years older than me. The mother must have been MI. One day she came to our house, flipped out in our driveway, crying to my mother about how she was over 35 and now too old to run for president of the US

Possible trigger:

poured gasoline over her head and was going to set herself on fire.

. I didn't see it. This is what my mother told me. My mother said she talked her down from it. Now that I think back, did my mother really laugh about that? I guess she did. Ok, that's really strange...

We also laughed how they got a camper and were planning a trip. They all lived in the camper (it was only a VW van with a toilet under a seat cushion) in their driveway for a month, using the toilet and everything to practice for the trip. The day of the trip, they drove off, driving right off the bridge of our island, trip over! That was funny, right?

So many crazy families. Another family on our block used to go to the cruise ships every week, pretending they were seeing passengers off, so they could eat the free food. After that the cruise ships stopped allowing friends of passengers to see them off. We always joked it was because of them.

I could go on. The other family where the teenaged son was a peeping Tom in everybody's windows and exposing himself...

The other family where the dad was shooting fish with a machine gun...

The other family where the parents locked the kids in their bedrooms...

And more...

[TishaBuv]

Back to my two girlfriends. I have a tentative date to go out with them both this week. E called me yesterday and said that she just can't stand to keep the date and go out with C because C is so totally toxic. She has been calling E, giving her unwanted advice about how she doesn't know how to parent and how E's boyfriend needs counseling. C still didn't pay E back the $300 she borrowed, yet she is calling this date her birthday celebration and expecting us for pay for her.

So I told E that if she wants we can blow off C, telling her we canceled the date and still see each other. Or we can tell C that she has to pay for herself, which might cause her to cancel the date if she has no money. And that C doesn't deserve better treatment because she is such a toxic user.

I can tell C that she better lay off us and be on best behavior or else, and she sometimes can comply when she knows she's walking a fine line.

Why do we keep this toxic friend you ask? It's another difficult relationship I maintain. And it felt validating to hear she does the same thing to E that she does to me.

[DechanDawa]

Haha, grandfathered in. I never heard that one.

I just had a bad interaction with my oldest and "best friend" -- we met when we were 5 years old, and have decades upon decades of life between us.

This friend emailed me that she thought of me as a "sister" then proceeded to do her same old toxic dance.

Personally, I find toxic boring now. I think maybe I wouldn't mind boring boring.

My sister was very toxic and right up until her death two years ago she was manipulative and controlling, and a narcissist. I allowed more closeness during her illness but I paid the price because she just did all the same old damaging **** right up until the end.

I did a lot of personal work and I think the more you do that the less interesting these people are.

Having said all this...I do believe my "best friend" is grandfathered in for life. Haha. I never heard this expression. Thanks for making me smile today.

I mean I was angry as hell at my friend and now I am trying to think of what cute thing I can send her for Xmas. We are thousands of miles apart. If we lived in the same geographic area I am certain I would probably avoid her. Such is life.

[TishaBuv]

Yes! This friend says we are like sisters, too. That means that she can treat me as crappy as she wants and fight with me, and I'll still be there because we are family. Ha!

I've defriended her many times, but always go back to her. I am drawn to how well we know each other, how she knows 'the real me' and I let my hair down with her, how we laugh together 'till our sides hurt, how she is so over the top (she really is!). As long as I can avoid letting her trigger me, we can be just fine.

[DechanDawa]

I can really relate to everything you have said on this thread.

I was the outwardly wild one in my youth, and maybe still am, a little, while my friend is wild inwardly. She used to be very creative. Very artistic. And extremely beautiful. Oh my word, such a beauty.

Okay...what I don't like about these toxic relationships is always feeling like I am walking on eggs. My friend will get upset about something but she won't come out and say it. She will hold a grudge for years.

It is the passive aggressiveness I hate. You never know when these people are going to strike. My whole family is like this, my ex was/is like this...and that is the part of toxic I find boring. You know, it just gets old. I hate that feeling of saying or doing the wrong thing and these people will get all touchy and twitchy.

My friend was very difficult as a child. She missed so much school she was always in danger of being held back. She was a very neurotic child. I was her best friend because basically everyone else found her too weird to hang out with. I think I felt sorry for her, a little. Well, now here it is decades later and she is still the one who needs to be the center of attention. She's fragile. Blah, blah, blah.

But, sigh, she is grandfathered in. I don't feel like talking to her but I will probably send her something especially nice for Xmas.

Also...what you said about the breaking off then coming back together...the same for me...I have "let go" of this one best friend several times and somehow she always, always, always ends up back in my life. I was even trying to figure it out recently.

There is a sense of entitlement, I guess. I have had several other friendships with people I have considered better friends, but somehow this one person keeps reclaiming the title.

I would really like to have a friend I could be honest with without them getting all critical or invalidating. Or trying to fix me. I hate that the most.

On the plus side: I will say pretty much anything I want to this friend even if it makes her mad. Presently she is angry because I confided in her that I felt suicidally depressed. That's her territory. How dare I claim it? Haha. I also realize we exchange a ridiculous amount of gifts. Everywhere I turn I am using something she gave me...my favorite bedroom slippers, socks, teatowels, kitchenware. She sends me silly things like socks that have stuffed bunny heads around the cuffs. And I wear them! We have "secret code words" from when we were kids, as well as nicknames. It goes on and on. Also she remembers more from my childhood than I do. Like she remembered the make and color of my bike in grade school. I can barely remember grade school! She remembers the ages of all my siblings. It goes on and on. I guess this is how she keeps herself grandfathered. Haha. I am happy to be writing about this as we had a very bad exchange lately and it upset me for days. Thanks, TishaBuv!

[TishaBuv]

Originally Posted by DechanDawa

I can really relate to everything you have said on this thread.

I was the outwardly wild one in my youth, and maybe still am, a little, while my friend is wild inwardly. She used to be very creative. Very artistic. And extremely beautiful. Oh my word, such a beauty.

Okay...what I don't like about these toxic relationships is always feeling like I am walking on eggs. My friend will get upset about something but she won't come out and say it. She will hold a grudge for years.

It is the passive aggressiveness I hate. You never know when these people are going to strike. My whole family is like this, my ex was/is like this...and that is the part of toxic I find boring. You know, it just gets old. I hate that feeling of saying or doing the wrong thing and these people will get all touchy and twitchy.

My friend was very difficult as a child. She missed so much school she was always in danger of being held back. She was a very neurotic child. I was her best friend because basically everyone else found her too weird to hang out with. I think I felt sorry for her, a little. Well, now here it is decades later and she is still the one who needs to be the center of attention. She's fragile. Blah, blah, blah.

But, sigh, she is grandfathered in. I don't feel like talking to her but I will probably send her something especially nice for Xmas.

Also...what you said about the breaking off then coming back together...the same for me...I have "let go" of this one best friend several times and somehow she always, always, always ends up back in my life. I was even trying to figure it out recently.

There is a sense of entitlement, I guess. I have had several other friendships with people I have considered better friends, but somehow this one person keeps reclaiming the title.

I would really like to have a friend I could be honest with without them getting all critical or invalidating. Or trying to fix me. I hate that the most.

On the plus side: I will say pretty much anything I want to this friend even if it makes her mad. Presently she is angry because I confided in her that I felt suicidally depressed. That's her territory. How dare I claim it? Haha. I also realize we exchange a ridiculous amount of gifts. Everywhere I turn I am using something she gave me...my favorite bedroom slippers, socks, teatowels, kitchenware. She sends me silly things like socks that have stuffed bunny heads around the cuffs. And I wear them! We have "secret code words" from when we were kids, as well as nicknames. It goes on and on. Also she remembers more from my childhood than I do. Like she remembered the make and color of my bike in grade school. I can barely remember grade school! She remembers the ages of all my siblings. It goes on and on. I guess this is how she keeps herself grandfathered. Haha. I am happy to be writing about this as we had a very bad exchange lately and it upset me for days. Thanks, TishaBuv!

My friend like give me digs, veiled as humor. She'll push me until I give it back to her. Then she gets mad at me and calls me a b**ch. I am now aware of the set up. So I'll call her out on the digs right away. She'll criticize me for being too sensitive, but I know I am doing the better thing than playing into her trap.

You have a dynamic like this with your friend, too.

She gets me to confide in her by saying she cares and wants to help me, then she uses it against me first chance she gets. So I don't confide any more.

Strange love/hate, push/pull, empathy/jealousy, right? Maybe both she and I have PD's?

[DechanDawa]

Yes, yes yes and yeah.

Okay. Consider this. It is good to be wrestling with a relationship. It helps us grow.

Maybe I need to grow a thicker skin????????

Also...I might add. I am in a very vulnerable place myself and that is why my friend is bugging me. I realize mostly she is the emotional taker and I am the giver. She can't switch.

I need some new friends!!!! Not to replace my old friend...but for balance. I am pretty sick of toxic friends. I just would like...maybe nice superficial friends to go eat ice cream and Mexican food with???

Also, I think girlfriends bug me more when I am without a viable and progressive career path, or an intimate relationship.

Your thread has helped me get perspective.

Oh, my friend seems to have lost her sense of humor. I did try to make a joke out of the fact we were both suicidally depressed...and she got all twisted and touchy.

Oh, I know my best friend and I are terribly neurotic, mental, and twisted. Haha.

But it would be nice to fill in the gaps with a couple of boring friends. I say this but boring friends...they bore me and I can't tolerate them. Haha.

It's all okay. Great thread. Made my day. Thanks again.