[28malefithappy]

Hi. I'm in a great sexually super charged relationship with a wonderful woman who happens to be 10 years my senior.
It's been a great romance upto this point and we spend most of our free time together and have grown to be extremely intimate and fantastic lovers.
Our shared plans have also progressed rapidly and our lifestyles are integrated around each others families and friends who accept us both as their own.

However there is a real sticking point that has arisen between us and may break up our beautiful love and that is kids - she wants them before her biological clock runs out and I want time to establish our careers before I have the added pressure of children. It came down to ultimatums on time frames for her and I. We have a kickass relationship, fantastic frequent sex, amazing dates every weekend, really love each other and we don't want to end it.
Now we are going to a counsellor about it, but that's not happening for over a month, will be unaffordable and it's shaking both our lives apart in the meanwhile. I'm screwing up exams and she's taking time off work etc.

She works fulltime and studies part time already.
I study full time and work on breaks. She earns six times more money than I have to live on as a student & I've had to burn most of my savings to be equitable (and she owes me money at this point, though I frequently use her better resources so it evens out). When I finish studies I will out earn her. She wants children before that time and I believe I'd have to leave study to become the primary carer.
Despite all that and active socialising, we get about 3 full days a week together on average.

We have different religions, I'm Christian, she's strongly ex-catholic & is a Buddhist. I went to see the Dalai Lama, she regularly comes to (and enjoys) my modern charismatic church.
Of course I'm not exactly a model christian and she's not exactly running for the Lama party but we are basically ethical, moral and good contemporary people at heart.
So the main question for us is if we wait, will we kill our possibilties to have kids or will we disadvantage our kids by messing up our careers too soon?
Please help!!

[Perna]

If one or the other of you doesn't want kids right now, I think it will mess up your relationship to have them now but, theoretically, "love" means wanting to make the other person happy so each of you holding onto your individual "must haves" doesn't look too good for even being married/together much less bringing in children to the mix.

I didn't get a sense of any "plan" for children and how they might fit into your lives in a year or so. Talking about having children is not the same as having them; have you all looked into how easy/hard it might be for you to get pregnant, have some sort of overall picture of what would go down; where you'd live, how the money would work, who'd care for the children, etc.?

It sounds to me like you are anxious at the "thought" of children so haven't gone any further in imagining time, space, money, activity, life-style and what it would mean if there was a child in your life. It hasn't happened yet and may not/never happen so you should be able to "explore" the idea as if it could happen without being so upset. Do some pro/con listings and use real scenarios? Where will you be in a year? A baby doesn't show up tomorrow/next week! When you're "establishing your career" you won't also be in school anymore at the same time; an infant isn't going to necessarily get in the way of your early career. Too, how are you going to have children with your lady if her biological clock does fail her; if she's 10 years older she has a legitimate worry. I don't see anything in your scenario that ever really addresses having children with her, it's "one day when we're established" without a realistic time line or any sense of you wanting children with your lady, ever (like she presumably wants with you which is why she is bringing it up). You have to face whether you want children, period. It is not her "problem" based on her age; she wants children, with you, no matter what. How about you? You can't script life so exactly, lay it out like you appear to have your education/career; no way you can tell what the future will bring. I say "seize the moment."

[sunrise]

Hi, how much pressure is her biological clock putting on the situation right now, i.e. how old is your partner? How old are you? How long would you like to wait before having kids? If she is 40 and you want to wait another 10 years, then this would not work unless one of you bends. But if you are 20 and she is 30, and you want to wait only 3 years, then it seems like it might work. You have to look at what you want--do you ever even want to have children at some point with this woman? If the answer is yes, then you might need to compromise, because fertility lasts only so long. And if the answer is no, you should let her know, so that she can move on with her life or decide if a childless life with you is acceptable to her.

I think going to a counselor for help sorting this out is a good idea.

[Cheri]

If possible, try to finish your education before having kids. Both my parents had to give up grad school when my mom got pregnant with me because of time and financial pressures, and I've been blamed all my life (like it was my decision!). Nothing causes more resentment than being forced into a situation you're not ready for or don't want.

[dcs_no1_fan]

Hi

I would put thinking of kids out of your head & just have fun in the bedroom even if you star trying to have them now it might not happen for a few years. I lost my 1st two girls & ended up being old at 20yrs that I could not have kids then 9 months later I was pregnant & I now have two wonderful boys I had them when I was 21yrs & 23yrs & im so pleased that I did as when I was 28yrs I had to have an hysterectomy therefore if I had waited till I was in my 30's I would not have been able to have kids at all due to medical reasons

I hope that you can sort this out if you really love each other as much as you say that you do them im sure you will bu as I said dont think about the kids just have fun until they come it could be 9 months or it could be 5 yrs

i think you need counseling together. you're all over the map with this. good luck, pat

[nothemama8]

before you think of kids, you need to grow
this is not an insult but if you question it will hurt any kids you have

[28malefithappy]

RE: Perna, She said 18 months (into the relationship making her 38.5) I said 4 years (making her 41).

RE: Sunrise, it's her ultimate purpose in life. It's children asap or she's going to find someone older, more mature, who can do that in her mind, despite being madly in love with me. I've already critisized her for treating me like a disposable sperm donor and she really freaked out and was very humbled & apologised.

RE: Cheri, thanks for the insight.

Obviously that timeframe is accelerated by her need to have kids now and not later. Her being on the borderline and the specialist she saw told her she is losing 20% chance a year to have kids. This has her in a state of total anxiety over it - she will do anything to have kids.

Ok so options wise:
We looked at IVF/freezing eggs, though that's a road I am very adverse to going down she has made plans to do this anyway! It's more in line with my timeframes than hers but she isn't taking any chances there either way. She's doing this because "37 yo eggs are better than 38 yo eggs" and she wants more than one child.

She underestimates the 24/7 responsibility of kids and thinks she can manage it all herself - be the mother, provider and carer at the same time while I'm mostly busy and she is always busy. Our relationship would break down under the pressure of full time and a half study/work loads of over 60 hrs/week each and rotating caring for the newborn child.

If I broke it off now I wouldn't be surprised if she went a little crazy and started looking for sperm donors to impregnate herself and raise kids by herself while she shopped for a new, older, lonely financially secure man who was willing to help out. This completely excludes me from the picture and I would like to continue to see her.
She is really on a mission with this..

She is probably capable of raising a single child in childcare on her own. She is certainly the most capable woman I've ever met. She wouldn't be happy that way alone. She wants a traditional family but she's just left it to the last freaking minute in her life and so it's so urgent.
It's a shame I need the time.
I really didn't understand exactly what I was in for when we fell in love, that it was 'the one' and I don't want to wreck her dreams by stringing this out in counselling and resolving that it's irresolvable.
So I hope that works something out!!!

I also want to stay with her because of our relationship and it'd really hurt her to break it off, we'd both really suffer if that happened. So I'm really conflicted.

She has her own home which is big enough for one kid, but we'd have to sell up and move in three years time and I can see how it'd go, she'd resent me for moving away from her relatives.
Same thing happened to my parents and caused them to eventually split because of the property market here going up 300% in 18 months and my father getting and taking a job offer far away. Last year the property market here went up another 45%! that's after 18 years of consecutive double digit growth due to a mining boom inflating salaries and faster economic growth than China in our state.
Moving where all the work is for me and the bigger houses near that work are 1/3rd the price of what they are here is just common sense but it's away from her comfort zone, her life and family. She doesn't deal well out of her zone at all.

Thoughts:
1. Doomed, perfect girl, wrong time, a real heartbreak?
2. Deal with it and do my best to make it work?
3. Forget these questions, why do I have to think so much.
4. Get her a frontal labotomy and make her my bride of frankenstein, give her a puppy, like they did in the good old days!?
5. Find her a good husband and secretly impregnate her, then move on.
6. Feel guilty about thinking of 5.
7. Marry her and just try anything.
8. Knock her up, let it break down and support the kid while she finds a new guy. Live a disfunctional life of regrets and cheap flings as a sad writer like David Decovany in Californication.
9. Feel bad about watching that smutty show.
10. Feel good about 7.

[sunrise]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
I don't want to wreck her dreams by stringing this out in counselling and resolving that it's irresolvable.

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Couples counseling on a specific issue needn't take a long time. You can be goal directed. Even a couple of months of meeting the counselor one time per week might really help clarify things for the both of you. Spending a couple of months working on this very important issue is well worth it, so don't begrudge the time for counseling. Good luck.

11. get out and let her live the life she longs for........sorry

[eskielover]

Here goes another example of what it's like for another couple. I met my husband in school the year he was graduating. I still had several more years before getting my BS. My goal was to have a career, enjoy my life & be able to take care of myself. Being a woman that had no desire to have children, that was a pretty perfect picture of what I wanted in life. Then we decided to get married....or at least thought about doing it. I layed out my desires for what I wanted in life.....he listened without hearing a word I said. He couldn't believe that any woman could feel that way, but agreed with what I was saying to my face.

Thus started the 32 years of misery. 2 years into the marriage....oops. I was pregnant....not in my plans at all. I was angry & to top it off, he even suggested that I take time off school to take care of the baby. You have to be kidding. Sure, I messed up too....it was as much my fault as his. I wasn't going to have the baby, but couldn't go through with that plan, so I told him this was the one & only....no more & since he was the one that wanted kids, he could take care of her.

It didn't exactly work that way, but the only time I took off from school was the spring break when I had her. She went to my computer labs with me or I found people from church that were loving to babysit. My husband was taking care of her when he wasn't at work & it was my time to study. When I really had school work, my parents were definitely willing to care for her. In the long run, they became the basic care takers during the week & we had her on the weekends....when I finally graduated & started my career.

The resentment that I wasn't believed when I went into the marriage has haunted this marriage all along. We tolerated each other because of the things that a 2 career family could buy.....but that was all there was to it.

Today, finally after 32 years of this, I can finally leave. I have purchased a farm in KY & am moving there alone.....which is what I should have been from the start. My concept of a partnership wasn't understood or even discussed....it was just plain ignored.

The advice about knowing what is involved & thinking through your life together is the most important time to do it "right now". It is easier to leave each other now than after you are married. Being compatible has to be a complete picture. You need to know exactly what kind of woman you want to live with for the rest of your life & she needs to do the same. It is important to be realistic....not emotional because realism is the onle thing that keeps a marriage together over the years.

Sit down & listen to what each other wants & understand it beyond all doubt before you ever decide to marry or even stay with her because everything else is good. If it all isn't good, it won't work. Compromise may work for awhile, but it turns into resentment real fast when the newness of marriage wears off.

Be ware....if it is like this now....it only gets worse,
Debbie

[SeptemberMorn]

This is just a general overview of both your posts, the red flags I see... and keep in mind, I'm speaking strictly from a woman's point of view. You might consider reposting in the Men Focused Support forum.

Like I said, generally speaking, you seem to be more focused on Things and not so much on Love. Although you do mention it, it's more of an afterthought. The sexual part of your relationship with this woman seems to stand out a lot more. Take it from someone who had a FANTASTIC sexual relationship with my husband; I know the difference between sex and love. Love is an active commitment to the person. Sex is only the icing on the cake. When the sex goes, if that's what your relationship is based on, the relationship goes. Believe me, the sex will go eventually for any number of reasons.

Your career seems to be much important to you at this point in time, also. There's nothing wrong with that. In your best interest, however, you need to concentrate on that and make that a success before you think of starting a family.

As for your girlfriend, I feel totally sorry for her that she allowed herself to become so involved with a man whose values are so different from hers. I know how she feels about having a family. She should have thought, beforehand, about the age difference and her own time clock.

Knowing what I know now and had I been in her shoes, I wouldn't have allowed such a deep relationship to form. If you do marry her and start a family, there are going to be many resentments build both for you and for her.

FYI: I was married almost 12 yrs the first time and I've been married 32 yrs this time. Lousy lover the first time, no love. Wonderful lover this time, but when the sex went, the whole thing went. However, I did manage to "steal" one child from him which he resented for a long time. I resent that he resents it.

[spal]

End it. You don't sound like you want kids at this point and she does. There are plenty of guys who want kids in their late 20's and cope with it but you're not one of them. Why string her along and make life miserable for both of you? She should have known better that she was setting herself up for heartbreak but I guess she was hoping that she could have the whole package before the clock runs out, but that's just fantasy. Great sex does not necessarily mean love or indicates that a mature relationship is forthcoming. End it. Unless you're committed to embarking on this journey which requires 100% maturity and commitment then end it. Believe me, you're not doing her any favours by staying and it's a bit presumptuous on your part to think that you are.

i think that you're presuming a lot by throwing out all of these scenarios tht you've created for HER. you talk about "how she feels", etc. etc.etc. and we're hearing nothing from her side about this.

sorry, i think she'd be better off alone....

[Direction]

Many good posts to think about...I liked Butterflylady's choice number 11...

I sence there is a lot of romance...at least from your point of view...not sure the "honeymoon" has worn off yet...I think SeptemberMorn pointed out some red flags there...

If she wants a child...is someone willing to stay home until that child is in school...I'm in no way implying that daycare doesn't work...but if she is that desperate to have a child what is she or you willing to give up to have one...that's a really big question...don't you think?