There is this friend

Let go.

It's not the money you really want. You want her. She's not available. Stop trying to recreate what you experienced two summers ago. Let go.

Of course she'ld like to pay you back. No one enjoys feeling indebted. No one enjoys accepting a handout. But she is struggling just to get by. So let the money go. Don't make another announcement that you want to gift it. Just stop bringing it up. Stop thinking about it. One minute you're worried about not getting it back. Next minute you say you're not concerned it. Forget about it. Close the book on it.

Then be a gentleman. Leave the ball in her court. See what she does. See what she initiates. If she contacts you and wants to plan a hike with you, fine. I don't think she will. Basically a hike with her is "a date." She's trying to wind down this involvement with you. But you're hanging on, wishing and hoping. You're pouring all this mental energy into wanting to recapture a closeness that you experienced a few summers ago that felt "awesome" to you. It's not going to happen. She feels she can't tell you that because she owes you money.

She feels she "owes" you. You feel she "owes" you. That's the thread that keeps alive the connection between you. You can't build or sustain friendship on that. Forget it.

This woman does not make you feel alone. You are alone. You are alone because you want a relationship that is not available to you. And you will not accept that reality. She doesn't want to spend time alone with you. She doesn't really want to go hiking or have coffee with you. She says she does because she feels uncomfortable not saying that because you did a nice, big favor for her (the loan) and she feels trapped into acting more interested in you than she really wants to keep up. How many more months are you planning to keep this game going.

Let go. Move on. You need friends and you need a girlfriend. She doesn't really want to be either to you. You're going to have to look elsewhere for friendship and for love. Start now.

I know you don't actually mean the things you say about her wishing I would piss off already and take a hint, I know what you're doing and for me to just move on instead of wasting it on someone that doesn't want me but I don't want to keep her around if I am to move on, I don't want those "lingering feelings" knowing she is still around. If I am out, I am all the way out and wont be waiting for her to see if she wants to hike and set it up. I can't speak for the future, maybe one day I'll send her a text and catch up like a decade or 2 or more later if she somehow runs on my mind.

I also don't talk to her about the money. Back in Oct I did once, then again last week she messaged me about it but that's it. Normally people just up and ghost people that they owe money to.

So it sounds like you want some kind of "showdown" with her that is really all about you venting your pain at her. You want some dramatic "finale" where you basically let her know how rejected you feel. This is just another way of guilting her. This just prolongs the interpersonal drama.

Go ahead, if you think this satisfies some need you have. Maybe you are claiming this will give you "closure." It sounds to me more like an effort on your part to make her very uncomfortable.

Some friendships just fizzle out. It happens to everyone. Your connection with this woman has been fizzling out. She's not asking you to "piss off." She's never been hostile toward you and doesn't want to be even unpleasant. But she doesn't want to spend special time alone with you. You shouldn't expect her to. It would be inappropriate for her to do that. That's not friendship. That's "dating."

You need to let go. If calling her up, or texting her, and announcing that you are exiting from your connection with her is what you'd like to do, go ahead. Whatever helps you come to terms with reality -- do it. Free yourself from what has become an unhealthy obsession.

Make other connections with other people. Cultivate friendships where you can. Understand that some connections last and some don't. It can make us sad when a connection doesn't last. It's fine to grieve the loss. I've been through that myself. Sometimes you just have to close the book. The pain heals, if you let it.

Weird, I must have entered the wrong thread because I said no such thing. :/

That's an odd thing to do. But, if it'll make you feel better, do it.

Maybe it's what you need to do.

It wasn't a showdown or a way for me to vent, I would be as civil as I could just wishing her well and hope she gets nothing but great things her way. If she asks what is wrong I would just tell her it doesn't matter and we should both move on. She doesn't know I am like this and I never planned on letting her know because this anger I have is not against her, it's anger I have against myself and how poisonious I feel inside even long before her, but my feelings for her distracted me from my real problems and she's the only female to give me a chance and as I am 35 I am pretty sure I wont have another chance like this at another woman. She's already lost some male friendships because the new boyfriend and she did not take it well, told her I was thinking of leaving too but she ignored me and later said she did not think my feelings were that bad to end things to begin with.

She's no longer providing a good distraction from this anger you describe, so maybe calling her to announce you are exiting from a connection to her seems like a useful thing for you to do. If that allows you to channel your mental energies in a different direction, the call may be constructive.

But you are saying that ending your connection to her ends all hope that you can have a fulfilling relationship with a woman. You see how much you had riding on your connection to her. You set up this dichotomy: Have a real friendship with her and a life that is worth living . . . OR . . . accept that the friendship is fizzling out and conclude that you have nothing ahead of you, except a loveless existence. That will be a self-fulfilling prophesy, if you cling to that belief.

You were depressed and suicidal when she came into your life as a wonderful source of warmth, encouragement and support. You've decided that, if the connection to her ends, you will return to that hopeless state . . . because "no other woman" . . . will give you a chance. How much of a chance do you give anyone? As you say, you stay home playing video games. Re-read your own posts above. They contain a great deal of insight.

Maybe you can solve this? Why does she lie all the time? and what does that mean?

"I really want to hang out more and i'll invite you to my events" - Nothing. Sure, I deleted my FB but they are not FB exclusive. We also rarely hang out and we might be on Tuesday and it will only be our 5th time this year, most of it was done in the first 3 months.

"You're a big reason I went for my dream job" - Posts on FB thanking the universe, a friend of hers, her clients but not me. Sure I am a client as I have went to her job but don't tell me that if it's not true. Never thought I was a reason she got her dream job, she went for it a year after the money.

"I'll call you in a few weeks" - It's been almost a month...

There are other things too. For someone that tells me she always wants me to be honest with her (which I have not been, I don't talk about these problems with her because why would I?).

This woman has a lot of problems. Her life hasn't gone the way she had hoped and expected. She's constantly in a financial bind to where she can't afford much of life's pleasures.

She probably thinks she means things when she says them. Then she finds following up too hard. A lot of people do that. In the moment they say something that sounds good. They want the person they're talking with to feel good. So they offer to do this or that. Then they find they've over-committed. The other people and things they're involved with compete for their time.

She hates to disappoint you. So she says what she thinks you want to hear. Go by what she does, not by what she says.

If you try to hang on to this "friendship," you're going to be continually disappointed. What you want from her she isn't going to give. Analyse it till your blue in the face. It's never going to make sense to you. People aren't always logical in what they say.

you've had lots of good advice especially from Rose 76. This woman just used you for the money. Look at all the time you are wasting between a coffee in January and another in May. Let her have the money and break off all contact. Tell her give it to someone who needs it as you did. Then when that person builds themselves up they can give it to someone else.

Stop wasting your life with her. have you any idea how many women are in the world. Billions. Just think of how many are in one big city like New York alone. Just really think about it. You think if all the women in new york were in a huge space together and you walked through them you would not find one, just one, who liked you?

I understand you are depressed. Me too. But when someone tries to use me they get told. People will use you if you let them. The world will be with you as you are with the world. If you let people use you they will be queuing up

Well I am on tinder and could have hung out with this girl today that's visiting my city for the first ever time but I was working and she had to fly back home and she agreed to stay in touch with me and could have had a date with this other girl a month ago but everytime (twice) we tried getting something official she bailed so I peaced out. I atleast try but my mind always goes back to her. There was also a few others but they never worked out, one was looking for a guy to spoil her, no thanks.

So I had 1 final time with her a week and a half ago, I say 1 final time because I am moving on with my life and will find people that give a ****. We went for a hike and hung out for almost 3 hours, she told me if she can give me $1,000 instead of the $1850 she owes and call it a day (and she did that day too) because she has other things she needs to put her money towards, gave me the whole "omg that money helped me so much" speech, told her I only did it because I wanted her to get away from her job and heal up and be healthy and happy. She's about to move in with her boyfriend now about 45 minutes away and soon moving to almost the other side of the province with the rest of her family. I aint happy she stiffed me after I was the only person who helped her out in her time of need, I was her only friend that actually kept tabs on her making sure she's ok. I can't even get 1 phone call from her, not even 1!!! yet her boyfriend they call eachother 1 or 2 times a day every day he's not around. Also all the lies she spoon fed me about wanting to hang out more and inviting me out with her when she goes to events, how she has more time for people that matter to her. Boy was I a fool thinking she was talking about me lmao. I am such a fool, she also tells me sometimes she hates men, so not surprised really. Not really been thinking about her that often since she only wants to pay me $1,000 instead of the full $1,850. I mean it's not really about the money, I feel like this whole time I was just taken advantage of for my kindness, who does that? she's definatly not the nice person I always thought she was. Everything was a lie between us pretty much and it's made me feel sour inside. I'll just let her fade away, no responding to her texts which I probably wont get anyway and move onto better people. Who knows, maybe in 10-20 years I'll hit her up and see how her life is but the friendship is dead for good now.

Anyway I gave tinder and POF a try, always ended up the same even if we exchanged numbers and started texting back and fourth, even ones that just wanted friendships. They always said peace to me or ghosted me, so I got rid of my accounts and I am just going to go the whole "lone wolf" for a long while and work on myself getting better as a person and being more active outside, then maybe retry people again. I tried to meet up, but online dating is a "numbers game" and a waste of time IMO, need to get better at talking to people face to face instead of boring texting all the time. All they say is "omg you're so funny" and stuff as we text and I guess that's not enough, making them laugh when that's what attracts a woman. :/

I'll be surprised if you get even that thousand back. This gal has problems. Her life has been somewhat of a mess. A well-functioning woman does not accept $1850 as a loan or as a gift from a man she is not already in a very close relationship with. She did because she felt desperate. You threw a great big temptation in front of her. Out of weakness, she took it. You say "Who does that?" Lots of needy people do that, or something like that.

Then she felt under an obligation toward you, and she said some earnest things, and she said some things she felt obligated to say. It doesn't sound like she ever tried to mislead you into thinking that she had a romantic interest in you.

You told yourself that you just hoped to have a friendship with her, with no pressure for romance. But you had kinda fallen in love. That's why you resent the attention she pays to this new boyfriend. You wish you were her boyfrifiend. It's okay to have wanted her in that way. But you brought money into the picture.

As long as some semblance of friendship was going on, you were willing to make the money a gift. As long as she held out a chance that you could be close to her, even just now and then, not getting the money back was something you could overlook.

But now you want your money. Now you feel "stiffed." Now you feel like she made a fool of you. This shows that you will walk away from this experience having learned nothing that was important to learn.

If you offer money to people in financial distress, a lot of them will accept it. Not all. Some will refuse the offer because they don't want to put themselves under an obligation. But lots of them will take it, thinking that it might help them turn their life around. They will have some gratitude that is sincere. But most people hate feeling indebted.

A man offering material help to a distressed woman he likes is an old, old, old story. You are putting yourself in the category of men you don't want to be in the same category with. Their motto is, "I did a lot for this gal, so I have an expectation of some appreciation in return, which I'm not getting." Some of these guys end up in prison. Their path in that direction started with just the kind of bitterness you express.

Don't let your heart be corrupted by disappointment. You'll lose, if you do.

Yeah I feel bitter and will be walking away from her. I've felt nothing but anger for a LONG time and I do resent the attention he gets while I get nothing, probably because I am nothing but that's a whole different story.

I've never actually been honest with her about things, I just hold it in because I figure if I am even a little bit honest she will be annoyed and that will be the end of that. She told me that day we last saw eachother that she does not want the money to get in the way between us and that I am probably really angry sometimes about this taking so long (I just smiled, not saying a word), but there is a problem and the only way I can be free is if I vanish and move on. I aint going to let it corrupt me and I become some asshole to everyone, I am what I am. I honestly didn't do this because I was hoping she would become my girlfriend, I truely cared about her well being and I told her I wanted her to get away from work and heal up, I mean she had 2 blood clots and had to be on blood thinners and later a gallstone problem, I just wanted to help her out and make sure she was going to be ok.

But she has other obligations she's paying for that are apparently more important then paying back someone that truely at the time cared for her well being. Like saving money so she can move away to buy some land and make a house. At that point I knew I have been an utter fool and have been for years. I did not even hint at her for the money back for a looooooong time, first time was October 2018 and then once after that because she mentioned it. I understand she needs to survive and the money I may not see and i've never once rushed her for it, i've even told her to keep it if she has to or take your time paying me back because she tells me she has money only for food after the bills and rent. And no I don't wish her and the boyfriend a short relationship and hope they break up, that's just dumb. I wish them a happy and long lasting relationship, she's happy with him but I really don't like how since the moment they looked eachother in the eyes and fell in love at that moment (she says it feels like she's home with him, love at first sight) he's had much more time with her in the first month then our entire 3 years we have been talking once she quit at my job, which in the 12 or so years we worked together we barely talked. I also can't take her lies, is anything real that she tells me? I tell her to call me, she doesn't. She says she will call, she doesn't. She says she wants to hang out more, we don't. She wants to invite me to things with her, she doesn't. It is what it is and what it is is it isn't.

Anyway I don't really think about her much, I just keep this thread updated on what's happening. I don't think there is a point in continuing this thread anymore, i'm done with this woman and wont be responding to her anymore. Good luck to you Rose and thanks for the help and advice. Oh and BTW I gave her $4,000 in total. She paid $2,000 when she sold her house after she paid off all her bills, then $150 for a life coach, then 1000 when we last hung out, so it's down to $850 now.

If you got back $3150 on a loan of $4000, then it sounds like she has made some effort to do the right thing. Maybe you'll get the last $850; maybe you won't. Maybe you need to close this chapter of your life and put it behind you. It sounds like you may have gotten to that point.

You say she was a source of support to you at a very low point in your life. It sounds like she was a good person to you when you needed someone to be. She treated you in a caring way. Then she was not able or willing to make that a permanent bond. It hurts to have wanted that bond to last and then it didn't. And maybe she misled you into thinking she wanted more of a friendship than she really wanted.

I think you are making the right decision to let go and move on.

You're not nothing, but you are suffering from unmet emotional needs. There's probably a long story behind that . . . or maybe not so long. But somewhere along the line you got badly wounded. And that was long before your involvement with this particular woman. Life can be very disappointing. I think most people here at PC have some experience with that.

you said before you did not care about the money. stop trying to put pressure on her with money.it is obvious why you gave it in the first place

she won't buy much land with $850

Quote:

I wanted her to get away from work and heal up, I mean she had 2 blood clots and had to be on blood thinners and later a gallstone problem, I just wanted to help her out and make sure she was going to be ok.

How did you find out about her health issues? Did you see her in hospital ? I forget.
Can Men and Women Be "Just Friends"? | Psychology Today

I think the original poster said "I'm done with this thread." I personally found the link to psychology today helpful. So thanks for that.

I found that article spot-on.

In my younger days, any guy that ever started out as a "friend" evenutually wanted to have sex (unless he was happily married.) And it's not like I was some bomb-shell knock-out in the looks department. I was reasonably attractive. I'm thinking of male neighbors I had when I was single. I lived in a small apartment building where everyone was friendly and single. We borrowed things from each other. A male neighbor would stop by for a chat. Without exception each eventually came on to me for a physical connection. What was worse was when I found out that one male neighbor was telling the other male neighbors that he had been having sex with me. I liked all of them and was sexually interested in none of them. The "friendships," which I really wanted and valued became untenable. Because I was young and unattached, each guy seemed to take it as an insulting rejection that I wasn't willing to hop into bed with him.

I think it's normal for a guy to be interested in sex with just about any female he finds attractive. If a young woman is not attractive to him, he probably isn't too interested in "hanging out" with her either. Why would he be? For what?

When I was in school, it was common for male and female students to study together and get pretty friendly. Most of us were married or in stable relationships. We had each other over for dinner. Those friendships didn't last too long after we stopped being classmates.

I got friendly with the male relatives of my girlfriends. We hung out together. Sooner or later, though, their interest in me turned sexual. Young men, especially if they are unattached, tend to interpret a woman's "friendliness" as a sign that she might be open to dating them. I'ld say that any woman who isn't brain-dead knows perfectly well when a male "friend" is attracted to her and would welcome more than friendship. Men are very easy to read on that score. This gets uncomfortable for the woman who values the friendship but does not want more than that. She dreads having to hurt the guy.

We women are capable of really enjoying the company of men that we are not sexually attracted to. (That's where I think the genders are different.) I've known guys that I loved having conversations with and would really liked to have hung out with, but I knew good-and-well that, if I had shown them that level of interest, they would have wanted "a date." Then I would have had to reject their advance, which I'm sure would have been hurtful. For me to say, 'I like you as a friend, but that's it." means: "I don't find you sexually attractive." or it could mean: "You might attract me, but I see you've got issues that I don't want to be burdened with." If a man comes across as very emotionally needy, a woman may fear that he'll be devastated, if dating doesn't lead to commitment. So she decides it's too risky to even give him a chance (though she might find him attractive.)

Many years ago, I met a guy who I thought was okay, but I doubted I'ld want more than a casual fling with him. (For one thing, I thought he was too old for me . . . and he had other obvious problems.) He seemed to be relaxed and confident, so I didn't think he'ld be shattered, if we had some fun together, and I then moved on. (I was planning to move to another state in a few months.) He even said to me that he didn't think going out with someone for a while was a reason to get overly hung up on them. He seemed like a fairly happy guy who wasn't going to make me his "reason for living." So I didn't feel pressured. I think we both expected no more than some casual fun that probably wouldn't last. 30 years later, we're still together. Sometimes you just gotta lighten up and allow things to unfold as they will. The last thing on earth I expected was to fall in love with this guy. We were out having a few drinks together when he said, "You know, I really like you." He said it like he felt surprised, himself, to feel that way.

He had an quality that smart women like. He didn't have a bad word to say about his ex-wife or about any woman he'ld ever dated. He seemed to have zero bitterness over what he'ld been through with women. His divorce had been painful for him, but he did not speak critically of his ex. That sat well with me.

If a guy I was on a date with started telling me how his ex was a byeech, or how he had been terribly heart-broken by women, I would run for the hills. So would a lot of women. A woman with anything on the ball will tend to avoid guys who come across as deeply wounded or full of hurt. Bitterness and/or resentfulness in a man (or in anyone) is extremely unattractive. "Please console me because I've been so hurt by life." is absolutely the wrong message to put out there.

Ladies like guys who can make them laugh.